middle of the night

[CLB1125]

I’m sitting here in the dark overthinking everything. I’ve been married for 40 years, I shouldn’t have to worry about crazy shit like this. My husband worked with this chick, i call her the sawmill whore, she flirts with all the men, had an affair with one that I know of. She’s my daughters age. And her husband works there too! Anyway after my husband retired they text one another. I thought no big deal they’re friends. He can get into these sarcastic moods with no reason. Well I did abad thing and looked in his phone. He only talks that way to me when she’s been texting him. He calls her little girl. It hit me right in the heart. I know I’m overthinking this but my depression just hit the ground. I’m too old to be upset about this crap. It’s his sarcasm that hurts the most. I haven’t done anything to deserve that. The doctor said I have to reduce stress in my life and he knows that. He doesn’t care. My chest hurts now. Sometimes I just wanna die.

[STEM_Dad]

First of all, I hear you. I can empathize with you.

Relationship and marriage are built on mutual trust.

• It's okay for you to tell you husband that you don't want him texting that woman. You can also tell him that you feel his sarcasm towards your is hurtful. (If you can get help from a relationship or mental health counselor/therapist, they could help you with how best to say these things.)

• "Not Just Friends" (see below)

.....

My wife did have an affair, which led to her divorcing me after being married for 20 years. (It was her second affair, with the first after our 5th year of marriage.)

Statistically speaking:

• People who have had an affair are 3x more likely to have another than a person who has never had one before (so I'd be more suspicious of the woman texting your husband than of him, unless he had cheated before).

• Women are more likely to leave a marriage. (Women file 70% of all divorces, at least in America.)

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If you can find it, I'd recommend the book "Not Just Friends" by Shirley Glass, PhD. (She was a psychologist and researcher focused on infidelity.)

I also recommend the YouTube channel "Marriage Helper", started by Dr. Joe Beam, a relationship expert who has been working to help save and improve marriages for over 20 years. (The same messages are available as a podcast titled "Relationship Radio.)

Other good relationship information can be found from Dr. John Gottman and the Gottman Institute.

[CLB1125 in reply to STEM_Dad]

Thank you. My husband has never had an affair and the woman who knows. I will check into these sites. I am talking to a therapist. We have talked about his sarcastic nature. I thought it was depression from losing his parents but now I don’t think that’s it. I just put 2 and 2 together and it really hurt. We had the best Sunday we’ve had in a long while and then this. It’s just a big let down.

[STEM_Dad in reply to CLB1125]

You mentioned that he is retired now. Many men need to find things to do to keep active after they retire.

My dad started going to the library a lot, walking around the mall and other stores, or going on drives around the area. (He likes to strike up conversations with people wherever he goes.) But he adores my mom (who is a "homebody" who likes to sit and read or putter about the house), so he returns home frequently. Since my mom likes to crochet and do little projects (and they both like to cook), my dad will ask her what she needs, and he will go out to be her personal shopper. ... That's what works for them.

Your husband might have interests that he didn't have much time for when he was working. Maybe watching sports, fishing, working on cars, or woodworking, or who-knows-what. Maybe there's something that the two of you can do together, or (like my parents) do in a collaborative kind of way that your separate interests can come together.

It would be better for him to spend time talking with male friends. A lot of people miss the social engagement they had at work (like my dad), and so part of the reason he's texting his former coworker is that she's making herself available to talk. But, it's not a good conversation partner matchup because both of them are married. (Older men often like the attention of younger women because it makes them feel younger... That might be a sign of midlife crisis. He might need therapy, himself.)

You also mentioned that she's flirty, and males of all ages (except perhaps grade school) like female attention. He might think of it as harmless, but it's quite evidently harmful.

•If you were flirty with him on your courtship, then maybe that was part of what drew him to you.

• (My wife was the flirty type, but I have no talent for it, so my attempts to flirt back were very awkward. I'm the stereotype of the Nice Guy, but she likes a little bit of a Bad Boy, like previous boyfriends before we married, and I couldn't act like that.)

I guess what I'm getting at is: think about what drew you together. Also, one bit of advice that I picked up (too late) from Dr. John Gottman is: "Be genuinely curious about" your husband, what he would be interested in doing, both on his own and as a couple. (That includes interests in the bedroom.)

[CLB1125 in reply to STEM_Dad]

Thanks for all the advice from a man’s perspective. We live on a farm so that takes most of his time. He’s with my brother a lot. We are both shy so it was an interesting courtship lol. The biggest issue is he won’t talk about anything. If I were to say what’s wrong his answer would be nothing, what’s wrong with you? Always closed off and sarcastic. Ive mentioned therapy and he won’t even consider it. Thinks I’m wasting my time. Maybe I am in more ways than one. 😔

[STEM_Dad in reply to CLB1125]

Don't give up. Anything worth having is worth holding onto; anything worth keeping of worth fighting for.

Try asking more probing questions, like "what do you miss about work", or "what did you always want to do when you retired?" Or ask this-for-that questions, like "would you rather visit [someplace you both liked going to] or [someplace you've talked about going to but never been]?"

-----

Even though my marriage ultimately didn't work out, I did the best throughout, and I have no regrets. I did the best I knew how. (I do wish that I'd sought counseling years earlier, because it might have helped me and my family...and possibly my marriage. But they say "hindsight is 20/20".)

[CLB1125 in reply to STEM_Dad]

Yes it is. I would have changed a lot of things but at 65 I’m too old to change anything now. I try to keep my house clean and avoid him as much as possible when he’s in a mood. Some day I will have had enough and spill everything that I have bottled up. I can’t just talk to him. I get to upset and have a panic attack. But someday I’m just not going to care anymore.

[Jennblank7734]

Hello =) I'm really sorry for what's going on. I know how awful this can be.

For me it went far beyond my "normal " obsessive thoughts running in circles. I'd get headaches from just not being able to take a break.

It touches on every aspect of life.

I absolutely do not think it's ok for your husband to keep in contact with her, even claiming she's a friend is not right. He's disrespecting you. I'm sure he'd feel exactly the same if you worked with a man who flirts and is known to have an affair with a coworker and you claimed him as a friend and talked.

I know I tend to post right after something triggers me. It seems like your husband is a big part of your suffering. I've read and you do say you've encouraged him going to therapy. You've tried to have open talks with him. It sounds like you've really tried to work on this aspect of what causes your illness.

I'm a little angry, sorry if I'm jumping around. I just remember how agonizing this can be. It makes me upset that you're openly struggling and suffering over multiple problems and he's doing something like this. It feels so cold and uncaring. I'm very sorry if I go too far. As always, please message me if you'd like to talk.

Jennifer

[STEM_Dad in reply to Jennblank7734]

This is a subject that naturally makes people upset.

I'm glad to have you join the conversation. As a man, I can empathize, but I cannot truly understand from a woman's perspective.

You're right that men can often be cold and uncaring, or (from a man's perspective) sometimes we seem to be, when we are withdrawing & closing up like a clam. (My emotions might be intense, but I internalize them a lot, as men also do. Not helpful, because it only increases my anxiety.)

[CLB1125 in reply to STEM_Dad]

I can understand that. I came from a generation that men were tough and didn’t talk about their feelings. I have only seen my husband cry once, when my daughter lost her first baby. That’s the one and only time. Men don’t cry. I think it’s bs myself.

[STEM_Dad in reply to CLB1125]

Well, with some of the men in my family, I can tell you for sure that I think it's BS that "men don't cry".

I'll admit to being more emotionally sensitive (I always have been), so I'll cry when I feel like I've got to. However, I will usually find somewhere alone to cry, not out of shame (usually), but because it's such a personal, private thing for me. The exception is when I am crying while consoling someone, or being consoled by someone.

I will also openly cry when moved by a moment (appreciation of beauty or witnessing a tender exchange, or even while watching a sappy movie), and I don't care who sees me!

But besides myself, I've known my brothers, my dad, and even my grampa (my dad's dad) to cry. My dad and grampa are both military vets, and my grampa was especially stoic in his demeanor... until his shell opened more with each successive grandchild* born. (Then, his internal softness came out more and more, and one could see both the strong officer and the loving patriarch in him simultaneously...talk about a manly image!)

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* I was the third oldest grandkid, and when I was little my grampa still has the stern officer's demeanor. It was my younger cousins who got so see his soft side from birth. Meanwhile, I got to watch and appreciate his years of transformation.

[CLB1125 in reply to STEM_Dad]

That’s wonderful. Cherished memories

[Hidden]

I understand what you're going through. I've been dealing with a similar situation with my wife. I check her phone every night, and if I bring something up, she downplays it or makes a joke. My concerns are legitimate like yours.

I think it's ok that you're vigilant, you have every right to know what he's up to but, tryyyy not to over think. It'll drive you crazy. It's easier said than done I know but, I suggest trying. Personally, when I start that over thinking, it just plays in my head on a loop. So, anything you can do to not over think is helpful.

Do you communicate in any healthy way with him? That would help to calm your thoughts. How about therapy or mental health care?

I only mention those bc they do help.

Sending positive light your way ✨️

[CLB1125 in reply to Hidden]

He won’t engage in any serious discussion. He will give me some snide remarks. Insinuating I have a problem he doesn’t. Sometimes I think he’s gaslighting me. I have fibro fog and a bad memory from all my meds so he uses to his advantage saying things like you think you did that but your wrong. Then I second guess myself. It causes me to feel like I’m losing it. Therapy is out of the question. He doesn’t need it according to him. I try really hard not to think about stuff too much. Just sometimes it gets to be too much.

[Hidden in reply to CLB1125]

Sounds very familiar. The gaslighting is so irritating and, disrespectful too. I have the same fog and we can be taken advantage of because of it.

The snide comments are disrespectful as well. Trust your gut. Tell him it's so not ok to be doing what he's doing bc it's not.

I know it gets to be too much. Maybe try therapy for just you? I'm not caught up on the comments so if you've addressed this, I apologize.

Stay strong and confident with your dignity intact. Confront him again ya know? Sending you strength 💪 💛

[Midori in reply to Hidden]

Have you thought that perhaps, having retired he feels useless? My Dad did when he retired, so he went back out and found another job (fortunately he was in a job where there was a lot of opportunities for someone with older qualifications).

That might be at the roots of his sarcasm.

Cheers,Midori

[fauxartist]

I'd just flat out tell him... you can boost your ego with this one all you like, but don't snap at me because of your guilt doing it...I won't put up with it.... flirt all you like ya ole fart, as long at it's not a two way street or you can see how that works out for ya....

[Hidden in reply to fauxartist]

Solid advice fauxartist !!! I 100% agree.