Social anxiety / Dating - wish I could loosen up

[Smink]

I have been thinking recently about how I am very tense/anxious in how I relate to my friends and peers. I am a serious overthinker and though I would like more friends I don’t have much of a social life. Right now, I’m writing this in my room while my whole family are out meeting friends and I don’t like how reclusive I have become in recent years and unable to enjoy myself with others. I know I can do better at connecting with others.

The other night I was texting a person I used to work with and I realised how bad I was at it. With nearly every reply I felt as if that was the end of the conversation, and my instinct was to say something vague or ask a question just to force its continuation. In this particular situation I actually talked to the guy a bit more casually and just said what I was thinking more, I had a conversation that was natural and not formal or withdrawn which is how I usually am. I use to text like this all the time when I was younger, I just texted random shit and had fun but obviously I withdrew over time and became anxious and lost confidence in myself.

This also manifests in my general relationships and how I talk and interact with friends; a lot of the time I am just overthinking and it’s not casual enough. The best way I can describe how I’d like to be better is to loosen up a bit. I’d like to be able to chat to people/friends online and hang out with others in a more natural way. I think a part of the problem is that I think I am better than most people. I am kind of cynical and when I think of what most people talk about, either in person or online, I usually see it as stupid and a waste of time.

An area in my life I’d like to ‘loosen up’ more in particular is dating and talking to girls. I haven’t really dated before but I use dating apps quite a lot (I’m 23) and chat to girls on a near daily basis but I experience the same kind of overthinking here. Sometimes it feels like the entire fate of the conversation and (I know it’s silly) the potential future of the relationship depends on every single text I send and every word I use within it. It’s like it has to be perfect every time. The more I’m attracted to the girl the more perfect I feel it has to be. Either way, no matter who the girl is and how attracted I am to them, I think too much about what to say and I just wish that I could loosen up with it.

I would love to hear everyone’s thoughts on this.

Thank you

[Smink]

Thanks PurpleBones, very direct and simple, I’ll keep it in mind. Maybe just speaking truthfully above all else is the best thing to do, particularly in times of doubt or anxiety

[Stippler]

I very much relate to you - we have much in common. I am finding it helpful to reach out here in this forum. It helps me to "get out of myself" and that helps because I can be a bad person for me to live with. I would leave the house more but am afraid of covid so I mostly stay home. This group is helping me to reach out more. As for "overthinking," I am the grand master of that lol. My therapist recommended a book called "The Four Agreements" by Don Miguel Ruiz. It is a very good book for these types of problems. I don't know how helpful this is, but I at least wanted you to know you are not alone.

[Smink in reply to Stippler]

Hi Stippler, thanks for the comment. I think I have heard of this book, is one of the agreements titled be impeccable with your word?Either way what have you learned from this book, I’m curious?

[Stippler in reply to Smink]

Yes - I believe Be Impeccable with Your Word is the first agreement. The second is one I have to work on the most: Don't Take Anything Personally. Every time I get down, my therapist asks me if I have been reading that book. I say "No" and he says "Read it!" lol. It helps put me in perspective. It may not help you, but it seems to resonate with me. Good luck with it!

[Smink in reply to Stippler]

Thanks! I am meeting a friend today who initially told me about the book and I think I’ll ask him if I can borrow it!

[Nanii in reply to Stippler]

Hmm, if there's a competition in overthinking, I wonder who'd win. " So you're saying you're the grand master heh? Come at me! and be slain by the engulfment of my race of too in-deth thoughtpatterns! Mwuahuahauahauahaaaaa!"

[Nanii in reply to Stippler]

okey back to serious, interesting book, I might take a look at it.

[Nanii]

Well as a fellow overthinker: what you wrote doesn't sound strange at all and you seem quite self-aware. I've had quite various social contacts in my life, and sometimes it doesn't run smooth, simply because it doesn't run smooth. It doesn't HAVE to be you. Do you get what I mean? Somehow you sound to me like you maybe don't have (that much) people you can connect with in a deeper sense in your life? Some people are good at casual conversations and some don't. Some people are so good at casual conversations it's quite impossible to have a deep conversation with. Maybe you're the deep-convo kind and not the nice-weather-today-kind.

Concerning chats: your feelings sound quite logical to me. In a sense, it does revolve around every word right? Becauese it's a internet/chat contact. So to me, your feelings don't sound strange. But maybe that's because I'm also an overthinker. But I'm in a phase now: What's wrong with that? I always thought and sometimes even said to people telling me to stop overthinking: put a gun to my head and I'll stop overthinking. With other words: it's simply how my head works. I've hated it, sometimes (more rarely) loved it, but right now I'm in more of a state: why should I force myself to think less, just because other people don't know how to think well??? It's like chopping off part of my legs, because other people are shorter.

So I'm like, if you're stiff, be stiff. If you're stiff now, but not later, be stiff now and not later. There are a lot of stiff people in the world for you to be able to be stiff with and relaxe with... get loose with (the irony right?)

[Nanii in reply to Nanii]

Real life example: in your perception, is your post stiff? Read it again. I will tell my opinion after you tell yours.

[Smink in reply to Nanii]

Thanks Nani, that’s helpful. I read over it again, I guess you’re right it’s not stiff really it’s actually quite fluid in fairness. If anything there’s probably just a lot of self-criticism, which I suppose is the main thing that drives the overthinking. Kind of like what you were saying about having bad days and good days, I’m sure there are just periods where we overthink more than usual like if we’re going through a stagnant or difficult period in life.

I keep coming back to this reminder I have for myself but which is very difficult to remember at times which is to be forgiving and patient with yourself, particularly during these stagnant/lonely/difficult times. You’re absolutely right, if you’re stiff/overthinking/awkward just accept that, it’s the only way forward.

As for the conversation thing, yes I very much enjoy and prefer deep conversations, but it’s just hard to come by them with people who are not close friends. I’m not bad at small talk either I can definetly relate to people and initiate relationships but I just struggle with confidence I suppose and get held back by awkwardness and social anxiety. I think the type of people thing you refer to is key, i.e. you’re not gonna connect with everybody. I probably expect myself to connect and get along with everyone, because if I don’t that might mean there is something wrong with me. I guess it’s important to let go of this pressure I put on myself and just be myself

[Nanii in reply to Smink]

What you're writing is so familiar! I've just been in some extensive writing to word it softly. My head starts to be more all over the place, so I will get back to this an other time. But to me you show quite an high selfperception at least. Which may also be a bulge in social contact. That's at least like that with me. I really like your first reflection. Supernice! Hold onto that! Speak to you later! (don't know when, I'm a whimsical person, but I will, your reaction interests me).

[Smink in reply to Nanii]

Take your time and no pressure I look forward to your reply

[Nanii in reply to Smink]

To me you sounded elaborte, clear, you told a lot about your situation, a bit of sidetracks also. So that's why it didn't feel stiff for me. You already came to a great answer yourself, even better maybe, but still saying this because I said I would. And maybe also interesting for you to know.

About your reaction. The way you came to the self-criticism conclusion I find really striking. So fast also. Positive points also pointed out. Wonderful reflection. No need for me to say any more about that I feel.

That's a very good reminder. I should remind myself of that also more often. Nice also what I said was helpful to you. You're last paragraph is really relatable to me. Do you have specific kind of interests? Maybe it helps if you focus more on people also having those specific interests. This alone makes the chances already greater for deeper conversations. Just an idea that just popped to mind.

I also have a tendency to point at myself, but lately I'm seeing more that it can be other people too. So I'm trying to focus on that more.

[designguy]

I had social anxiety for years and one of the things I realized is how totally wrong my thinking/perception was about people and what they thought of me. I believed people didn't like me which was totally wrong, I also thought people were constantly judging me which again was totally wrong. The majority of people are caught up in their own lives and not paying any or barely some to me. We also tend to judge ourselves harshly and have unrealistic expectations that we would never have of other people.

The good thing for you is that you know you have social anxiety, I suggest you find a therapist who specifically treats it to work with or there are programs online you can use. Also, try to determine why and how you developed it which can aid in your recovery. In my case, I developed it because I was bullied in school and grew up in an emotionally repressed, abusive household. I realized that my social anxiety was from c-ptsd from the bullying and abuse and found a trauma therapist to work with which really helped me. The other thing to consider is that most of us with SA also suffer from low-self-worth and low-self-esteem which you can find a lot of information on youtube about on how to repair that part of you.

[Smink in reply to designguy]

Thanks designguy this is very helpful and informative. I will definitely look up on these things

[Hidden]

I just happen to think that texting in a lot of ways isn’t a real conversation. It’s okay when you first meet someone, but I prefer someone actually making the time to really talk on the phone to me.

[Smink in reply to Hidden]

Yes texting can definitely feel separate from reality. It’s hard to tell what people are thinking, and in many ways that makes it very difficult if one’s prone to overthinking and anxiety of some sort. Talking on the phone is rare alright, I wish it was something that was more normal to do with my friends, but that’s not likely to be the case particularly between men.

[Hidden in reply to Smink]

Yes, I understand what you’re saying. I don’t know what to think sometimes. Sometimes texting can seem like a way to blow people off. Like this I’m just too busy to talk to you type of thing. I don’t understand the world today!!! I think it’s all too much technology.

[Smink in reply to Hidden]

Yeh it can definitely be confusing at times. There’s so much to say and talk about that it’s hard to know what’s worth saying. I completely get it. If you’re interested there’s a very interesting video about this on YouTube based on the movie Everything Everywhere All at Once. It’s by an excellent film analyst and content creator on YouTube and it’s called ‘Multiverses, Nihilism, and How it Feels to be Alive Right Now’. I’ll see if I can send a link

[Smink in reply to Smink]

Here’s the link to the video: youtu.be/Gx6hZ01xYVM(Not working as expected?)