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Being Muslim is hard

Hb2003 profile image
89 Replies

Hello being Muslim is hard islamophobia is increasing and prejudice towards Muslims have been increasing as a Muslim teenage girl i am concerned about this there have been 2 incidents this week just wanted to vent about it one about a Muslim women not being allowed to wear the hijab in court and one in Canada

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Hb2003 profile image
Hb2003
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89 Replies
13ga profile image
13ga

Hi Hb!

i'm sorry to hear about your difficulties... i agree about the increasing prejudice - and not just on muslims - but on all non-christian-non-whites. it angers me beyond words. and if that's not bad enough.... what sends me into a nuclear blast, tailspin of fury - is that almost half of our fellow country-folk voted to support continued bigotry, class warfare, and divisiveness.

whether they did that intentionally is immaterial - that is the result. that means that almost 50% of those we share this land with - either support bigotry directly - or passively. that makes my blood boil. i never had a clue things were this bad.

that said - i'm a little ambivalent about your last comment. while i am (or try my best to be) respectful of others' beliefs - i don't think that one's beliefs should overrule the common good of the whole. in a court of law, where identification is important, i'm not sure a hijab is appropriate in that context. NOW - I say that with the admission that i am not knowledgeable enough about the muslim faith to contest or debate that intelligently. That is my uninformed opinion.

i will also admit to you, that i have a personal bias against the requirement for women - and not men - to wear the hijab. i'm an absolute believer in gender equality. if men had to wear the hijab also - i would have greater respect for the idea.

i would be appreciative if you would take some time to educate me, and help me to understand your feelings and interpretation on that matter.

tx, and i know there are many who stand with me and feel your pain.

in reply to 13ga

Usually a hijab does not obscure a person's face. Therefore, that person is still identifiable in court.

If the argument here is that the hijab obscures the view of a person's hair, then that is fallacious in that people can cut, shave, or dye their hair. Thereby making that feature unreliable for identification.

So regardless of what one holds higher (religion or law), the argument that a hijab interferes with identification of an individual in court is a weak one.

in reply to

This is how I see. Christian Nun's head covering signifies her piety, modesty, humility, renunciation of the earthly pleasures (like fashion and jewelry) and that she is married to God. A Muslim woman's head covering (which is just part of her "hijab" which actually refers to not only a head covering but modest dress and modest behavior), signifies her piety, modesty, humility, her rejection of immodest fashions... In theory they are very similar but they are seen very differently by the general public and by practitioners of both of these religions. That is where I can’t wrap my head around. Furthermore, if a Nun has to go testified in Court, will they apply the same rule?! It should be freedom of choice, if they want to make sure identification, take finger prints then comparing to the person’s identification card.

in reply to

That is a beautiful way to describe head coverings. And you make such a great points.

1. Christian Nuns also wear head coverings. So, where is the outrage? Where are the people who are angry that Nuns (women) are required to wear a head covering but men in similar stations within the Christian faith are not?

2. There are other ways to identify people than by what is under a head covering. Like fingerprints.

Thank you for your insight!

in reply to

I myself find Hijab is beautiful, I could rock it if I could 🤣😂 and yes it is a choice, not a must for Muslim to wear. Part of my life was surrounded with kind and loving and acceptance Muslim family as I am Asian, they welcomed me just as much as their own family. It is the twisted people who created war behind anything not to their hidden agenda. There are plenty of ways for identification. It’s just a merry go round messed up system we have to witness.

Hb2003 profile image
Hb2003 in reply to

yep that is true and thank you for sharing your story it made me smile 😊

in reply to Hb2003

You’re welcome Sweetie, I learned Farsi too and i love your culture, the food and the people 🥰🙏

Hb2003 profile image
Hb2003 in reply to

Aww ❤️❤️❤️

Hb2003 profile image
Hb2003 in reply to

you are so kind 😊❤️

in reply to Hb2003

Keep your Spirit high Sweetie! We all experienced this kind of ignorance in our life time but we rise above with love and kindness. Much love&light to You 🤗🙏

Hb2003 profile image
Hb2003 in reply to

I followed you I look forward to reading your posts 😊

in reply to Hb2003

Awee Sweetie, if you need to talk or anything, I’m there for you being real 💯 with love and kindness for sure 🤗

Hb2003 profile image
Hb2003 in reply to

I would love to 😊

Hb2003 profile image
Hb2003 in reply to

😊

13ga profile image
13ga in reply to

GMF - (rockin hijab)

again - i'm being educated. i had thought the hijab was muslim men demanding that of muslim women - maybe i'm confusing this with radical believers. I dislike all radical positions.

i'm very glad to hear that it's a choice.

can anyone elaborate on what i am thinkg of in this list:

head covering for women which does cover whole face...

mandated attire for women, but not for men...

in reply to 13ga

Just like Jasmine said, it’s best to take the class to truly understand instead of media bias stories. Before you know it, it can open the whole pandora box of illicit opinions and chaos 🙅‍♀️

13ga profile image
13ga in reply to

GMF (media bias)

helk yea... agree! i actually abstain from watching almost all televised "news". i try to stick to reliable sources, that still know what 'journalism' used to mean; and that add as little 'spin' and 'agenda' as possible. this is a difficult task.

jailany profile image
jailany in reply to 13ga

Good day! I am asian Muslum. In my family my Mom and my elder sister wont wear Hijab. It applies to all my grand father families too. I am married. My wife wears Hijab as per her family choice. As a Muslim men we do not compell any our women to wear Hijab. Some times i ask my wife are you feeling sweating and tightness? She replies no no. I am habituated to wear when i am outside of home.

in reply to jailany

Thank you for this insight jailany ! It is much appreciated 👍

13ga profile image
13ga in reply to jailany

TY jailany;

it's nice to hear a muslim man's perspective!

13ga profile image
13ga in reply to

another agreement.

and frankly, when i look at a woman - the very first thing i look at is the face.

actually - same is true for a man - i look at their face first too!! ;-)

(unless they're facing away... then i look at butt - however - i can say the exact same thing about another guy!)

in reply to 13ga

13ga, I love it, you are so funny and honest lol. How do I put it? We all zoom in “object of affection” whatever float your boat 🤣🤪🤗

13ga profile image
13ga in reply to

GMF, TYVM for the compliment. i do try to be as honest as i can. and i'd like to think i'm quick to admit when i'm wrong.

i'm very appreciative that you think i'm funny - i do try to laugh at whatever i can - it helps to make life a little less painful.

from what i've seen of your posts - i really like you, and you have a full and great-mind !!!

in reply to 13ga

Awee thank you sweetie. You are a passionate, funny, generous and a thirst for the right knowledge person. You know how to take compliments and give them right back showing great characters. I’m blessed to get to know you and every good people here 🤗😍🙏

13ga profile image
13ga in reply to

TYVM again....

you made me lol a little.... i'm not ... i don't think i take compliments well... i actually feel awkward.... tho i most certainly do like to get them... i'm not always sure how to take them.

i'm glad i'm improving! :-)

i'm very fortunate to get to know you, and many others here. my spirits are raised to see so many compassionate people here...

makes me wonder - who are really the people w/ mental illness? people here are the most sane i know!

_Alex_ profile image
_Alex_ in reply to

Nuns are only a very small percentage of women today, and women have a choice of whether they want to be nuns or not.

With head coverings for Muslim women, (which is more of a general thing, depending on the area), while many women may be fine with it, plenty of Muslim women will be under pressure to comply. So it's far from a "free choice" in many cases.

in reply to _Alex_

As I say in a different reply, "In some geographical regions it is a law or requirement." I am fully aware of the oppression that exists.

venusofthenorth profile image
venusofthenorth in reply to

I believe everybody else are aware of it as well, which is why we can't turn against each other using each other's culture to invalidate our feelings of oppression. The establishment at large is at fault for not having enough space for folks to have the variety.

in reply to venusofthenorth

Exactly. No need for in-fighting 👍 Just accept others as they are... It is not that hard!

in reply to

Well-said girlie. This should sum up everything. This is too much chaos as comments keep coming and criticizing one another. This is not how to promote mental health. I hope people stop dragging this on forever. Have a good night everyone and stay positive 🙏

Hb2003 profile image
Hb2003 in reply to _Alex_

I respectfully disagree most Muslim girls or women are not under pressure to comply there are some laws in middle eastern countries that say wear the hijab there always this one misconception that Muslim girls or women are forced to wear the hijab when In reality there’s only a small percentage

in reply to Hb2003

Thank you for this insight Hiba. I have been told the same thing by the Muslim women I know.

Hb2003 profile image
Hb2003 in reply to

Your welcome 😊

13ga profile image
13ga in reply to

Hiba!

what a beautiful name!

Hb2003 profile image
Hb2003 in reply to _Alex_

in Islam there’s no force on wearing the hijab it is there decision if they want to wear it or not

venusofthenorth profile image
venusofthenorth in reply to _Alex_

That isn't what the discussion is about, but if it was, what would you do about it? Some guy above said he and his family aren't forcing their wives to wear one (one of them does this while his Mum does not), a lot of women wear a hijab whether other people like it or not and some are pressured while others ditch it the second they get a chance. Seems to me it's unrealistic to judge an entire culture based on whether or not women cover their hair.

_Alex_ profile image
_Alex_ in reply to venusofthenorth

Sure yes. If you wanted to judge Islamic culture(s), then I think you would do it by looking at a lot more than whether women were under pressure to dress a certain way.

You would look at things like the quran, the hadith, the example of Muhammad and the early Muslims, Islamic law. You would also look at what Islamic population attitudes are like today when it comes to things like e.g. freedom of religion and free speech, (so freedom to change religion or seek to make converts, or be critical of religion), or what percentage want religious law playing a part in government today.

13ga profile image
13ga in reply to

GMF - (nun reply)

WOW - AWESOME analogy!! agreed. i also did NOT know that hijab referred to the whole attire. that makes more sense now. TY

in reply to 13ga

You’re welcomed 🤗🙏

13ga profile image
13ga in reply to

CJ -

tyvm for your response - you've proven what i already knew... i have little knowledge on this topic!!

i'm shocked to learn the hijab doesn't obscure the face - clearly i'm confusing that with the covering that leaves only the eyes visible, or eyes behind a screen...

i've got some other replies to read, and clearly, i've got some googling to do!!

TYVM for enlightening me!

in reply to 13ga

You might be confusing a hijab with a burqa or a niqab.

Something that helped me greatly in understanding different cultures and religions was taking a Cultural Anthropology class at my local community college. I know that in these trying times it is difficult to find the time or money to to dedicate to such an endeavor, but perhaps it is something to consider in the future if you are interested in expanding your comprehension of other cultures. Taking a Cultural Anthropology class may also provide you with objective, unbiased information (unlike Google, which I have found can highlight sites or articles that have a clear bias or lack accuracy).

13ga profile image
13ga in reply to

CJ - bingo... you're right - BURQA !

i did confuse the 2. and tx for your suggestion, that's a terrific idea.

in reply to 13ga

Also, and Hb can correct me if I am wrong, but from my personal experience, a hijab is not a requirement across the board in all geographical regions or amongst all Muslim families.

I have many acquaintances of the Muslim faith, most of whom are women. Though they are all devoted to their faith, not all of them wear hijabs.

In some geographical regions it is a law or a requirement. But again, it is not a practice across the entire board as I have found out personally.

If there is a feminist issue to be raised here, then one can do that with many religions and cultures (not just Islam).

For example, I was born a Hindu. But I don't see the outrage of "Why do Hindu women have to wear saris but Hindu men don't??" This 'logic' seems to be concentrated on Muslim women, which is the point Hb is trying to make: Being Muslim is hard.

Hb2003 profile image
Hb2003 in reply to

Yes a hijab is not required it’s there choose if they want to wear it or not

in reply to Hb2003

Thank you for clarifying 👍

Hb2003 profile image
Hb2003 in reply to

Your welcome 😊

13ga profile image
13ga in reply to

CJ - (geographic demands, and feminism)

another excellent point. so are the geographic regions where these demands are placed on women - are they practicing a particular sect of muslimism (or other religion) ?

feminist issue - i could not agree more strongly with you. I abhor inequality demands of all types; against any sub-group.

i am more familiar with the hindu culture - i had forgotten that sari's were required by some. i find this exactly just as distasteful. if the sari is that important, then absolutely the men should f'g wear them too!!!!! :-|

i too think that both the hijab and sari can be very beautiful - but only if worn by choice!

as for the hardships of being muslim, this i did understand all too well - and i'm glad this is being discussed - maybe more will gain a better understanding.

in reply to 13ga

I think what you are generally asking is: "Is the Islamic faith practiced differently by different people in different places?" And of course, the answer is yes- Just as Christianity has branched off into different ideations of the same general concept, Muslim devotees may differ in their interpretations and practices.

As far as which regions practice which iteration, I do not know. And frankly, that information is irrelevant in this particular setting as it does not pertain to the original post made by Hb2003.

I think it worth noting that in the original post, Hb is expressing her frustrations with how people of the Muslim faith are treated by non-Muslim members of society. She specifically states, "I am concerned... just wanted to vent about it..." Typically, when a person wants to express sadness/anger/frustration, they do not have the energy to also educate people on entire faith systems or explain the intricacies of historical societal patterns of oppression and discrimination. Folks who explicitly state that they need to vent, may just be looking for some compassion and empathy.

Though I find your inquisitiveness about other cultures and faiths admirable, I must implore you to "read the room." This was a post in which a person needed support and empathy. It was not an opportunity for yet another one of your opinionated crusades, nor is it a post dedicated to educating the public on the specifics of cultural and religious diversity.

Ironically, your replies further prove Hb's point- In a post where a Muslim person sought compassion because of other peoples' ignorance, she has to explain and defend the Muslim faith because of another person's ignorance. It's exhausting. All that was required here was a kind word, a supportive tone, a statement of solidarity. Nothing more. Read the room.

13ga profile image
13ga in reply to

CJ - (read the room)

yep; i agree with you. i am very easily distracted, and can get carried away.

"reading the room" couldn't have been more dead-on; it is one of my weaknesses.

I TYVM for educating me, and reminding me.

jailany profile image
jailany in reply to

Yes i am 100% agreeing with Jasmine. Our muslim womens are not saying that they are compelled to wear burkas by men. I wondered other religion people are saying that it is compulsion by Muslim men. In my community our women wont wear burka. They wear saree being Muslim women. Some does based on their choice. They feel comfort to wear burkas in outdoors .

Hb2003 profile image
Hb2003 in reply to 13ga

I feel angry that people are discriminating other people because of who they are l Muslim women wear the hijab because of modesty reasons

13ga profile image
13ga in reply to Hb2003

Hb; I share your anger toward all discrimination - except for one.

I think that discrimination should be actively encouraged upon all who discriminate either directly, or passively.

and for those getting to know me - i say that without intended humor.

in reply to 13ga

As I have mentioned before, no one here is promoting or encouraging tolerance for bigotry. You do not have to keep specifying this.

13ga profile image
13ga in reply to

(don't need to keep specifying...)

yep - i do know that, and don't mean to insinuate otherwise.

this IS my problem. sorry for going off thread topic again...

but i think you're due an explanation.

the reason i'm in this forum is because of huge anger issues, and feeling down, and alone - especially over the last several years, and even more so this last year.

i'm feeling and seeing the increase in bigotry across the country, and it angers me.... topics that touch upon this - tend to send me into a rant, and that's my way to vent.

i probably should be doing my own ranting/venting, in my own original posts.

in reply to 13ga

That would be my suggestion to you- Create your own posts that convey your views.

Hb's post was about HER feelings. Those of us who initially replied, were responding to HER frustrations. But your reply derailed the conversation because it forced people to correct/clarify/inform YOU, as opposed to giving Hb the consideration she deserved.

If you have independent viewpoints that you would like to share, create your own posts about them. That way, you can voice your perspective without invalidating other peoples' experiences.

Sleeplessme profile image
Sleeplessme in reply to 13ga

Sorry 13ga but this comment.. "but on all non-christian-whites" really boils my blood.

I'm a Christian white. I've never treated anyone differently for being non Christian, non white or for that matter female or gay or anything else.

However. While doing my job I've had Asians, in places like London, tell me things like I'm scum, I don't belong round here, I should be dead. I've been spat at and even had a gun pulled on me.

And no, I'm not even a policeman, just a normal person doing a normal job.

The media is determined to make out that whites are the instigators in all racism, yet this is far from the truth. The most racist person I ever knew was a black friend who despised Asians.

Racism, in fact all types of prejudice, comes from ALL types of people. Women can be sexist. Gays can be racist. Asians are often homophobic.

Blanket statements like yours are just as bad as saying all Muslims are terrorists. It's no wonder white men often feel like the victims these days, when they're always told they're the problem.

in reply to Sleeplessme

I'm sorry you've been through this. And yes, discrimination can come from anywhere or anyone.

I have noticed that 13ga's replies typically distract from the original post's message. They shift the focus from the original post onto him, his well-intended beliefs and/or misguided opinions.

So please breathe (as I have been trying to do as I read those replies), and know that you are appreciated here. Again, I am so sorry you've had those experiences. Your words to Hb were kind and insightful. I commend you for expressing that level of care after what you have dealt with.

13ga profile image
13ga in reply to Sleeplessme

sleepless -

you are absolutely correct. however first, let me correct an error - i've edited my post - it should have read "non-christian-non-whites". However this correction does not impact your good point.

i sometimes allow my passion to drive, and i can then be a little sloppy with my language.

in my statement, i was painting with a less than global sized brush; and i should have indicated that i was referring to the usa - however your point is still correct, even in that context; as discrimination against christian-whites certainly happens as well.

i cannot back up what i'm about to say - it's the impression i have; so take it in that context. And that is, that non-christian-non-whites in the usa tend to experience far more bigotry than do christian-whites.

it is from this possibly wrong impression i made that statement; as i know all too well that non-white bigotry against whites and other non-whites is most certainly present in the usa as well as globally.

i very much appreciate you're "holding my feet to the fire" so to speak. it was wrong of me to phrase things as i did. I should have simply written that, from the perspective that i abhor all bigotry - which I indeed DO.

i hope my true intent helps to lower your blood temp... as high blood temp can damage cells and tissue! :-)

thank you for speaking out, giving me the opportunity to cool your blood!

💜

venusofthenorth profile image
venusofthenorth in reply to Sleeplessme

I agree we're not all the same, but white, heterosexual men created the system you see before you.

venusofthenorth profile image
venusofthenorth in reply to 13ga

You're opinions don't overrule the happiness and comfort of others either. The hijab makes no threat to the common good (neither do piercings or lewd clothes or robes either), wearing shit in court should have nothing at all to do with the case at hand. If it does, there is a set of bigotry that is affecting the effective justice within the court system and ultimately, the freedom of the people.

Since you stated yourself ignorant above I'm wondering why in the world you bothered to comment at all. You don't know what it's like to be a muslim, you don't respect their culture enough not to take this opportunity in particular to question their culture when they turn up all bent out of shape on a supposedly supportive forum on the internet and since you're questioning the "common good" of muslim antics, not only are you full of shit, you're outright perpetuating the stereotypes yourself.

13ga profile image
13ga in reply to venusofthenorth

venus;

as i now understand, the hijab doesn't cover the face, and i therefore agree, it should be no problem in court. i also would agree with your argument, that there may be problems with bigotry built into the system. However because you said this has nothing to do with the case at hand - i would argue, the point is moot.

i may be ignorant of certain muslim custom's and details; but (1) i'm not ignorant of the muslim plight; (2) i'm not devoid of empathy toward Hb's concerns; (3) as a fellow human being, and particularly - as a non-muslim-white - i wanted Hb to know that there are those of us who are just as offended as she is.

lastly - while i may have done so in an inappropriate way (by ranting against bigotry) - if you read all my posts - you would see that I DID, in fact ask questions about the culture, and thanked those willing to enlighten me.

as for me being full of shit - i'm perfectly willing to debate that, and accept the label if you can prove to me, that i am so. Only then can i try to empty some of it. and since you're the one to call me out - i invite you to explain it to me.

lastly - if you think that by trying to show compassion, and empathy toward Hb; by asking questions about details of the culture that i didn't undrestand; and by [inappropriately] ranting against bigotry in general - if that perpetuates a stereotype - then i would suggest, that's a good stereotype to perpetuate - and i thank you kindly for the compliment!!!

I understand your concern and agree with you wholeheartedly. As you know, I have Muslim relatives. I also have Muslim friends and colleagues AND my amazing Neurologist who takes such wonderful care of me is Muslim. It fills me with such great sadness to think of any of them being harassed, discriminated against or hurt just because of their beliefs or their hijab.

Nobody should have to endure such bigotry.

You are already a force to be reckoned with (remember one of your spirit animals 🦁), so I hope you can continue to have strength and courage in the face of hate. And please know that there are many people who may not be Muslim, but who stand proudly beside you, including myself ❤️

Sleeplessme profile image
Sleeplessme

I'm sorry to hear this Hb. I always find this difficult because it's something I don't see. I work with Muslims and none that I know receive such treatment. Maybe I just live in a generally nicer place. It's horrible that people still act like this these days, we should all have more important things to be concerned with.

13ga profile image
13ga in reply to Sleeplessme

sleepless.. ("find this difficult")

i'd add, that in the usa - where [sadly] many people here tend to be VERY xenophobic; and due to 911, those that tend not to think ... globally ... are very quick to condemn an entire group for the actions of 1 or a few.

that is a sad fact about alot of americans. and i think that is something unique to this country, because so many are ignorant of how the rest of the world lives, and how the rest of the world see's the usa...

so because 911 was done by muslims... very many americans condemn all muslims. and that boils my blood!

Hi Hb! I don't feel that I can say anything here since I don't live in the States, so I'll say hi and tell you how it is for a foreigner living in Norway. I am in no way paralleling my experience with yours, so please don't think that I am.

Off topic, but a tad similar: there is a stigma about foreigners here in Norway. It is awful! I entered their office for all things employment a few years ago and walked out of there vowing never to return. I was treated as an inferior being and was told that it would be really hard for me to ever get a job here. I remember going right from there to my husband's office in tears. To make matters worse I ran into his boss, but that's besides the point. I shudder every time I walk past one of those employment offices.

We entered this country with a hint of what we were getting into since our teacher had brought up this general "unease" of foreigners at our Norwegian lessons in Texas. Our Norwegian teacher here in Norway pretty much said that same thing: that there is this general "leeriness" in regards to foreigners. Neither of these teachers were excusing it; rather, they were saying how it is. Norway is "fairly new" in the foreigner department (as far as other countries' histories go) and are still getting used to sharing their country with us. Excuse? Yes and no, but I do know that it's not good (and that it definitely doesn't feel good).

I am so very sorry, Hb.

venusofthenorth profile image
venusofthenorth in reply to

Nordic bigotry is absolute BS. Viking used to travel the world, paint graffiti on ancient buildings and literally steal everybody else's stuff and now we're to stuck up to remember.

Hi Hb

I'm so sorry to hear about the 2 incidents, I really do feel for you as a Muslim and for a lot of other religions etc. I also feel for the way in which the Jews were persecuted in the war, there's a lot of bad history. There shouldn't be any of this, it's disgusting the way people treat others. As far as I'm concerned it doesn't matter what colour you are or whether you are of a certain religion, we should all be living in harmony. We all have a right to follow our race/religion.

I honestly do not like the way in which others are treated. We all should treat others with respect. I do have a Muslim friend and I think she looks stunning wearing her Hijab.

Thinking of you.

Take care xx

Hb2003 profile image
Hb2003 in reply to

Thanks a lot I appreciate it ☺️

in reply to Hb2003

You are welcome. Be you and be proud of who you are xx

venusofthenorth profile image
venusofthenorth in reply to

I've heard a lot of good stories about muslims. There's a lot of muslim people where I live and I've checked out a lot of ancient Arabic history. I feel like there's a case to be made that Arabic/muslim culture is fucking awesome, white folks just don't want to admit it neither do they want to know about it.

in reply to venusofthenorth

We are all human, we all have skin, hair, eyes etc etc and we should all be treated the same.

One thing I will say though is please could you not swear in your reply.

Thank you.

venusofthenorth profile image
venusofthenorth in reply to

I'm not religious at all and I'm definitely going to Hell, I'm swearing wherever I damn well please and it ain't your business to fix me.

Kitten58 profile image
Kitten58

It is unfortunate that in the land where the 1st amendment to the constitution guarantees the freedom of religion, people think that only applies to Christianity. I am sorry you need to go through this. And Muslims are not the first. From sometime in the 1870s until 1976 the pains indigenous people were not permitted to follow the dance practices of their spiritual belief under penalty of death. Of course you won't see any of that in the history books because we won the war.

Incidental,

Natzi Germany patterned their death camps after the U.S. reservations.

People are very good at demonizing a group of people to make killing them easier. However; the enemy is still human.

I know none of this makes it easier to understand or live with, but I hope it provides some comfort and a realization that we are not all like that.

13ga profile image
13ga in reply to Kitten58

kitten - great points...

your nazi comment reminds me of an interesting and relevant factoid, tho slightly off thread topic....

i find it highly ironic as well... hitler's eugenics ideas and programs....

might wanna sit down for this...

hitler's eugenics - originated HERE in the good 'ole usa! the original ideas behind eugenics started in the early 1900's when "Phrenology" (the pseudoscience of bumps and shape of the skull) became vogue and widely publicized without any actual scientific proof.

so - in effect - WE created hitler. and then we had to defeat our own monster!

phrenology was an attempt to explain why certain "sub-humans" weren't really human at all - and was used to justify bigotry. just as hitler used eugenics to denigrate the jews.

VDC1 profile image
VDC1

*** I support hb2003 100% and believe she has the right to safely and freely practice whatever she wants. I disapprove of all religion but ONLY believe in discussing it openly. I make no apologies for that.

in reply to VDC1

There is freedom of speech but we have to choose what to say/write to inspire and lift up people to do good and not the other way around. This is the community to promote positive mental health as I hope that’s the reason you joined. If I were you, I would think again and delete that comment so we can still interact and contribute peacefully and positively in this community.

venusofthenorth profile image
venusofthenorth in reply to VDC1

Why?

in reply to VDC1

Just Support and have your POV in your own post where you can find people are interested in what you have to say. Would you come to someone’s dinner and bring your own utensils right?! Think! 🙏

I love you for your infinite positivity 💖

in reply to

Love you All 😻. This is perfect example to rise above all the negativity 🤗🙏

in reply to

Lead by example 😂

Sweetie, we are all here for you and that matter. Don’t be angry and keep calm. It is not worth it to spend your health on small minded people. You know yourself and that is the most important thing 🥰🙏

in reply to

the Great trying to keep us grounded 😅

in reply to

We can feel disappointed about the outcome and then we can process and digest but I learned that anger atm can raise blood pressure up and can cause panic/anxiety attack which we all want to avoid esp for Hb.

in reply to

Very good point 👍

Hb2003 profile image
Hb2003

Its ok it happens 👍

venusofthenorth profile image
venusofthenorth

I'm white and ethnically Christian and I disagree completely with the elitist establishment and I'm sorry you're going through all of this. I'd like to know more because in my position, I'd like to do more to challenge stereotypes and bigoted views of not only muslims and Arabic people, but of all other prejudices there are. I live in Sweden where bigotry and islamophobia is a lot less apparent then it might be elsewhere, largely because there are effective laws in place against discrimination and bigotry here, but we can't all live in Sweden and Sweden might just all of a sudden stop funding anti-racism projects, so it might get worse than it is here as well.

13ga profile image
13ga in reply to venusofthenorth

(apparently, your first post)

on this we are in full agreement, and maybe i need to reconsider what i said in one of my prior posts (toward you).

I'm so sorry you and anyone else experiences intolerance and prejudice because of their religion. I've witnessed the predjudice regarding the hijab at my job, and find that intolerant behavior disgusting. I wish you strength to endure, and look forward to a day when people recognize we are all belong to the same human race!

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