Am I a victim of gaslighting or do I simply have a victim's mentality?

[AliGreen]

These are the two things that seem to find it's way back into my life. I have dealt with anxiety and depression for many chapters in my life, and in the place I'm at now I'm unsure whether I can say I've gotten better or worse. I lack emotion for a lot of things, I had things I enjoyed but have lost the passion for not only them but for everything.

In recent years my mind (memory) has become so poor to the point I don't even bother to see what day it is because I can no longer keep up. I can never remember anything in the past or even the day before. My reality has become so warped. People tell me stories of me and I'm just as surprised as them. Though memories I overlooked in my past have started to resurface that were traumatic and explain some of the issues I deal with now.

My memory has become a problem. My mother is a very 'headstrong' woman, we often bump heads. I am the type to 'want to dip my toes in the water to test it' while she is the type to 'grab me and throw me in without my consent and thanking herself for me later' thus creating cat fights.

I can never remember anything but when I do remember I feel SO sure but with her its always 'that wasnt the case' 'I never said that, you're making stuff up'. I will admit when I cannot remember, but things that stick with me, stick for a reason because it emotionally affected me. But my mother always seems to twist it, and I get to the point where im no longer sure of myself. I've had so many breakdowns of feeling like I'm losing my mind in arguments with her because I always start off so sure but in the end she makes me question everything including my sanity.

I've looked into the victim's mentality and I I can admit to doing those things but a part of me questions if it's also her. I'm not the only one who feels so in my family. She is the air of 'Mother knows best' and ONLY that goes!

In my opinion she also has characterics of a gaslighting parent. But she would never admit it. She refuses to barely admit any of her flaws but have no issues telling you all about yours pointing them out whenever.

I'm not even sure if this is really a question anymore or if it's just more of a rant. I guess I just need understanding or real honesty. To know if I'm truly wrong or that I'm not insane.

I just need something, whether its telling me I'm the problem or not, I feel so much uncertainty and it's driving me mad. It's taken such a toll on me that I feel uncertainty in everything I do, every decision, every thought.

[icl93]

aligreen, i feel like i could have written this. i also have an extremely headstrong mother. it manifests differently, for example if i want to dip my toes in the water she screams in horror to prevent it because she's convinced it's poisoned and then is angry that i would have put her through the stress when "i know that she worries and it's only because she loves her kids".

the trouble i've found with the labels is that they don't really help. my mom had a terribly traumatic childhood, and naturally has very fear based views of the world. she's also quick to label her parents, children, acquaintances, etc. as narcissists who are/were always trying to gaslight her into feeling guilty or inadequate. the irony is that she doesn't seem to have the self awareness to see how she gaslights the people around her, including myself. but when i'm in the moment or fresh out of conflict with her i start trying to label things to regain clarity, and i only get confused and then i worry i'm a narcissist, start distrusting myself and my judgements, etc. etc.

the truth is, when people have headstrong/controlling parents that don't let their children exercise their own will and judgement from an early age, who either push or restrain, those people have a harder time developing an internal compass. i'm just turning 27 and i've only lived out of my mom's house once. i've decided now i can't take it anymore and need to move out so badly i'm willing to do it during a pandemic with an uncertain financial future. she's panicked, and we've gotten into arguments that feel straight up psychologically abusive, like things i would never speak to other people again for if they weren't my mom, and the same thing happens to me where i can never provide the specific examples she asks for. i feel like a terrible person for wanting to choose freedom, happiness, and autonomy at no one's actual expense (who wouldn't want those things). i can't seem to remember how all of my feelings are valid that triggered my urge to leave, in other words, i can't justify my pain or frustration. but there's a reason for that: she's not going to hear it or validate it because she doesn't know how, and because i've lived my whole life having a headstrong parent validate everything for me willfully, i don't know how to do it myself either.

and the part about being willing to point out flaws but not accept them. a life time of that from a parent does a serious number on your brain and sense of self, and is incredibly exhausting, leading to these crazy, heated, cyclical arguments that go nowhere and leave you sad, frustrated, and defeated. i know exactlyyy how that feels. maybe one of the reasons you're extra depressed is because you don't feel empowered, and the person who was supposed to teach you to do that denies you that when you try to tell them what's up. i used to be more vibrant too, but i got tired of fighting and slowly accepted this alternate reality version of me that doesn't do anything that would cause conflict when my mom's fears are triggered, which they are by so many normal and joyful aspects of life. it ends up damaging my romantic relationships because my fear of my mom will dictate my behavior and i end up not being there for my partner in normal and healthy ways, or making weird excuses about why i don't want to do something or even spend the night when i really do. i've answered the phone at ridiculously inappropriate times (because of my fear that my mom will call 80 times in a row and panic that i'm dead somewhere because that's what she does), and then tried to justify it like it was normal. it's CRAZY. sorry now i'm ranting. but i just want to give you examples because it's helped me so much to hear other people's stories.

my point is, your feelings are valid, and right, and true. your mom probably loves you dearly, but i'm sure it would be very difficult for her to see where you're coming from if she is the way she is. you're the ONLY one who can decide what's right for you, and who can figure out who you are and what life's about. it's sooo hard, but try to trust yourself and find that voice. live for you. the self doubt and confusion is often loud inside, probably like i'd assume your mom's voice is inside your head when you're trying to make sense of things, but you can find yourself gradually with practice. don't let someone live your life for you!

i hope i don't sound patronizing, i don't know exactly what you're going through and this advice is also for me lol, but you certainly don't sound like a victim. you wouldn't be here if you were, you're taking action! you just have to stick up for yourself, but on the inside, where it counts.

i'm right there with you, and i wish you strength!

[AliGreen in reply to icl93]

Thank you so much for sharing. I started to cry while reading this, just to know I'm not alone. My mother also has a traumatic past from when she was a child and my heart hurts for the things she was put through and I understand her fear. And I definitely understand the part of finding our own freedom. I have felt so much hatred at that the fact I feel so caged and when she opens the door to prove a point, I'm terrified of being independent and coward right back under her wing. I want so much to feel free, but always feel guilt of wanting that because she wants 'a close family' something she wasn't given as a child. I was never one to put myself first or give myself the care I need until now and it's been such a struggle of either providing for me or providing for her.

But again thank you so much for sharing. I appreciate it so much and I too wish strength in your journeys and challenges.

This has given me hope.

[icl93 in reply to AliGreen]

i'm so happy it helps, it's overwhelmingly difficult to feel responsible for your parent's emotions while also knowing that they're not even capable of being for you in a way that's healthy. it sounds like we have a lot in common. i wanted to join an in person support group but with covid that's unlikely. i'm going to research what's available online. if you're interested i can keep you posted on what i find! it's definitely helped me to hear what you're going through. i'm sorry that you're experiencing it, but the solidarity gives me strength and perspective, so thank you so much for sharing as well.

[icl93 in reply to icl93]

healthunlocked.com/anxiety-...

just in case.

[Nothing_but_books]

Hi AliGreen,

Now you know no one here can tell you what is truly going on in your life. Not me for sure. But I have a bit of personal experience you may not have lived through yet.

Notice how you think / feel when you are around her.

Notice how you think / feel when she is not there.

Notice if all the ways you are so unsure of yourself happen any other time than after interactions with her.

Helpful? By the way, if you have ever seen the movie Gaslight, pay attention to Ingrid Bergman's absolute re-claiming of her life and self-certainty -- after she knows for sure what has been done to her!

Relying on someone else for so much is invalidating. Trust the self you meet when you are outside her influence.

[AliGreen in reply to Nothing_but_books]

Yeah I knew for a fact no one would be able to tell me what's going in on my life. I felt silly about it to be honest. I have been stuck in a loop of trying to find answers and understand myself and I know I may never fully find what I'm looking for but I'll at least be in a position where I'm sure.

I love my mother, I really do. I have no hatred towards her. I look up to her, she is an excellent female/mother figure. She's strong and intelligent and I want that for me, but I find we clash heads based off what SHE wants me to be vs what I want me to be.

I have never seen Gaslight and I'll be sure to check it out.

I feel indecisive a lot because I'm so use to her judgement or input towards whatever I'm doing, and when I do stick up for myself, she makes me feel small and naive.

I am confident in what I say but it seems I can only result into 'Yes-Man' behaviour with anything involving her. My only thoughts are to stick with that method until I am able to stand by myself financially.