The Metabolic Syndrome [MetS] & PCa - Advanced Prostate...

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The Metabolic Syndrome [MetS] & PCa

pjoshea13 profile image
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The "Metabolic syndrome is a clustering of at least three of the following five medical conditions:

- abdominal obesity,

- high blood pressure,

- high blood sugar,

- high serum triglycerides, and

- low serum high-density lipoprotein (HDL)." [1]

"In the U.S., about 25% of the adult population has metabolic syndrome, a proportion increasing with age ..." [1]

A study that used data from 2003-2012 reported that:

"Prevalence of the metabolic syndrome was 18.3% among those aged 20 to 39 years and increased to 46.7% among those aged 60 years or older." [2]

An old study explored the "protection" that diabetics have - they get more cancer of every type, except PCa, and have a lower rate than non-diabetics. The study associated protection only with those who had been diabetic for at least 12 months.

In the pre-diabetic state, glucose spikes lead to increased insulin production, which leads to insulin resistance and elevated fasting glucose. Ultimately, the upward pressure to produce insulin causes pancreatic beta cell failure and a diabetes diagnosis.

The standard approach to new cases is dietary advice & Metformin - but not insulin. In time, a diabetic might require other meds, but Metformin is continued (if tolerated).

It makes sense that a significant reduction in PCa risk would not occur immediately after diagnosis.

There is someting of a paradox here since PCa is an unusual cancer in that an FDG [Fluorodeoxyglucose] PET scan isn't useful for diagnosis. The cancer is quite content with fatty acids for energy and is not avid for the glucose in FDG. And yet key to the treatment of diabetes is control of blood glucose. More importantly, IMO, is that diabetics have been forced to address insulin resistance by the loss of production capacity.

While only 10.5% of Americans are diabetic, 34.5% are prediabetic. [3]

I don't view diabetes as being protective against PCa - rather, that insulin resistance is a risk factor for PCa. I have long thought that PCa could be added to the list of MetS symptoms, since MetS is common in PCa.

Dr. Myers, in a vlog post, spoke about ADT worsening symptoms of MetS & often leading to full-blown diabetes. What has loss of testosterone to do with MetS?

"Metabolic syndrome and testosterone deficiency in men are closely Linked. Epidemiological studies have shown that Low testosterone Levels are associated with obesity, insulin resistance and an adverse Lipid profile in men. Conversely in men with metabolic syndrome and type 2 diabetes have a high prevalence of hypogonadism. Metabolic syndrome and Low testosterone status are both independently associated with increased all-cause and cardiovascular mortality." [4]

There are now many studies that associate lower testosterone with greater PCa risk & poorer prognosis. In addition, by the time that PCa emerges, a man may have lost over half of the testosterone he had 25 years earlier. (Evolution's strategy for making room for younger men. LOL)

Two connections between high blood sugar, high serum triglycerides, and low serum high-density lipoprotein (HDL) come to mind:

Glucose spikes trigger insulin secretion, but also the conversion of excess glucose to triglycerides, which are stored as visceral fat.

The ratio of Triglycerides:HDL-C is a surrogate for insulin resistance, (which is caused by chronic glucose spikes.)

[A] Obesity

[A1] "Obesity, Inflammation, and Advanced Prostate Cancer" (2021) [5]

"Obesity is associated with high-grade and advanced prostate cancer. While this association may be multi-factorial, studies suggest that obesity-induced inflammation may play a role in the progression of advanced prostate cancer. The microenvironment associated with obesity increases growth factors and pro-inflammatory cytokines which have been implicated mechanistically to promote invasion, metastasis, and androgen-independent growth. This review summarizes recent findings related to obesity-induced inflammation which may be the link to advanced prostate cancer. In addition, this review while introduce novel targets to mitigate prostate cancer metastasis to the bone. Specific emphasis will be placed on the role of the pro-inflammatory cytokines interleukin (IL)-6, tumor necrosis factor (TNF)α, and IL-1β." [5]

{Visceral fat can be viewed as a gland in the endocrine system, since it secretes hormones that can affect the proliferation rate of PCa.

Visceral fat is the dangerous fat, due to its cytokine & hormone output. However, only a scan will show how big the problem is. Abdominal fat may not be a good indicator of visceral fat. BMI (body mass index) is better than nothing, but men on a low-fat diet may be lean on the outside and fat inside. See [11].

[A2] "Obesity and prostate cancer mortality" (2007) [6]

"It has long been known that obesity modestly increases the risk of prostate cancer mortality. Only recently, however, have studies examined whether this association is due to an increased risk of aggressive disease and/or worse outcomes following initial diagnosis and treatment. This distinction is important, because if obesity increases the risk of metastasis and death following treatment, weight loss could be an effective adjunct treatment. We now have good evidence that obesity increases the risk of aggressive prostate cancer, but reduces the risk of low-grade, nonaggressive cancer. In addition, several studies have found that obesity increases the risk of biochemical recurrence following prostatectomy; however, the few studies that have examined more definitive end points, metastases and death, have been less consistent. Furthermore, there are no studies that have examined whether weight loss after diagnosis favorably affects prostate cancer outcome. While accepting the current limitations in our knowledge base, it is our opinion that it is appropriate for physicians to counsel their patients to lose weight following prostate cancer diagnosis and motivate this change in behavior by emphasising the likely benefit of improving long-term outcome." [6]

[B] High blood pressure

"Systolic and diastolic blood pressure, prostate cancer risk, treatment, and survival. The PROCA-life study" (2021) [7]

"Inflammation has been linked to prostate cancer and hypertension, but it remains equivocal whether elevated blood pressure (BP) influence prostate cancer risk and survival."

"Men (>45 years) with a systolic BP >150 mmHg had a 35% increased risk of prostate cancer compared with men with a normal systolic BP (<130 mmHg) (HR 1.35 ...). Among patients with prostate cancer, men with systolic BP >150 mmHg had a 49% increased overall mortality compared with men with a normal systolic BP (HR 1.49 ...). Among patients with prostate cancer treated with curative intent, those with a high diastolic BP (>90 mmHg) had a threefold increase in overall mortality risk (HR 3.01, ...) compared with patients with a normal diastolic BP (<80 mmHg)." [7]

[C] (High blood sugar =) Insulin Resistance

"Insulin-like growth factor pathway: a link between androgen deprivation therapy (ADT), insulin resistance, and disease progression in patients with prostate cancer?" (2011) [8]

"Androgen deprivation therapy (ADT) is standard of care for patients with metastatic hormone-sensitive prostate cancer (HSPC), yet through its induction of a hypogonadal state leads to metabolic perturbations, including insulin resistance (IR) and obesity. IR and obesity have been associated with an increased risk of progression to castrate-resistant prostate cancer (CRPC) and ultimately increased prostate cancer-specific mortality. On a molecular level, this association between obesity/IR and prostate cancer progression may be mediated by alterations in the insulin-like growth factor (IGF) axis, which has been shown to be up-regulated upon disease progression to CRPC. Targeting the IGF axis, either by anti-IGF therapy or via enhancement of peripheral insulin sensitivity, represents a viable therapeutic target in patients with prostate cancer. Using the development of IR and/or obesity may represent a clinically available biomarker that may predict those patients most likely to respond to such therapy, and warrants testing in future prospective clinical trials." [8]

The best way to avoid glucose spikes is to balance carbohydrate & fat at every meal & snack, Barry Sears in his ZONE books gives the ideal ratio for carb:fat:protein & a formula for one's protein need. Dr. Myers has mentioned Sears as a good resource, but pushes the Mediterranean diet (40% fat). With nuts at hand, it is easy to hit the 40% fat target.

"Metformin decreases gluconeogenesis (glucose production) in the liver." [Wiki]

A Med diet + Metformin should reverse any insulin resistance & restore insulin sensitivity.

[D] High serum triglycerides

"Association between baseline serum glucose, triglycerides and total cholesterol, and prostate cancer risk categories" (2016) [9]

"Our findings suggest that high serum levels of glucose and triglycerides may influence PCa aggressiveness and severity."

[E] Low serum high-density lipoprotein (HDL)

"High-density lipoprotein and prostate cancer: an overview" (2013) [10]

"Prostate cancer is a common disease in modern, developed societies and has a high incidence and mortality. High-density lipoprotein cholesterol (HDL-C) has recently received much attention as a possible risk marker of prostate cancer development and prognosis. In the present article, we summarized findings from epidemiologic studies of the association between HDL-C and prostate cancer. Low HDL-C level was found to be a risk and prognostic factor of prostate cancer in several epidemiologic studies, although the overall linkage between HDL and prostate cancer has not been definitively established. The mechanisms for this association remain uncertain; however, limited data from experimental studies imply a possible role of HDL in the pathophysiology of prostate cancer."

***

{This post was prompted by the recent post from noahware:

his title - "Statins: new study regarding time to CRPC"

study title - "Metabolic syndrome and its pharmacologic treatment are associated with the time to castration-resistant prostate cancer"

"Importantly, in men with metabolic syndrome, statin use was associated with a slower progression to CRPC (HR 0.70 ..."}

***

When I moved to Asheville in 2005, my new dental hygienist clearly didn't believe me when I said that I was not on any meds. She said that someone of my age should be on 5 or 6 (only in America!) The next year, I asked by new doctor for Simvastatin (for PCa). He was happy to do that, of course, but refused Metformin (which I got from my alternative doc - again, for PCa.) Perhaps, after all this time, those lowly meds deserve some credit. Eventually, I did get to 5 or 6 meds - all for PCa, but not generally thought of as PCa drugs.

I suspect that cancer docs don't view basic health issues as being part of their responsibilities. & I suspect that many patients don't realize how MetS may affect their survival.

-Patrick

[1] en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metab...

[2] jamanetwork.com/journals/ja...

[3] niddk.nih.gov/health-inform...

[4] ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articl...

[5] pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/332...

[6] pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/179...

[7] pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/349...

[8] pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/216...

[9] pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/269...

[10] pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/239...

[11] webmd.com/diet/what-is-visc...

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pjoshea13
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34 Replies
PhilipSZacarias profile image
PhilipSZacarias

Another excellent (longish) post! Cheers, Phil

treedown profile image
treedown

Do you take COC protocol drugs? I am glad to say I have none of the above conditions currently and am on no prescriptions at this time. Its hard for me to think of taking any meds w/o clear indication they are needed. That said I will not rule anything out either. I am just far behind the curve on understanding the best use of off label drugs, supplements and any other substance other than food. I won't do it without understanding it. Maybe if time permits and I am retired with more time on my hands I will have the time to learn. For now I will eat well, exercise well and keep an eye on my blood work.

pjoshea13 profile image
pjoshea13 in reply to treedown

I'm not interested in a general approach that is based on Warburg & his view that glycolysis is inevitably present in cancer.

I am a firm believer that the insulin axis has to be controled in PCa. If MetS is not an issue going into ADT, it certainly becomes one. But I believe that MetS is commonly already an issue at diagnosis.

"eat well, exercise well"?

I think that most will agree on "eat well", but not on the definition. Maybe one day we will finally read of an intervention diet that increased PCa survival?

Exercise well? Unlike food, exercise is optional. Dr. Myers has said, of his patients on ADT, that he could always tell who had been exercising. But those who do have different ideas - & many are not motivated or unable.

Retirement? Turns out that the best thing I ever did was to take an early retirement. Having PCa is a full-time job with a resource like PubMed available for research. Or one can trust in SoC & hope for the best.

Best, -Patrick

treedown profile image
treedown in reply to pjoshea13

How old were you dx and what age did you retire?

pjoshea13 profile image
pjoshea13 in reply to treedown

I retired at 52 (9/1/2000), thinking it was the dumbest thing I had ever done.

The company offered a 3-hour annual medical as a benefit, so I thought I would do that one last time at the beginning of 2000. It would be foolish to retire if there was something seriously wrong. At the end of the morning I had the DRE:

"Oh well, you will never have a problem with your prostate! You have the prostate of a 23 year old."

2+ years later a polyp was detected by DRE. PSA was only 0.8.

1+ year later, with PSA at 3.0, a biopsy found Gleason 4+3.

My regular doctor told me that annual medicals are a waste of time. He doesn't do standard blood test panels anymore. They lead to invasive tests & unnecessary treatments.

Conversely, as I discovered, they don't guarantee a carefree retirement.

But I don't play golf. At least I have a hobby now. LOL

Best, -Patrick

treedown profile image
treedown in reply to pjoshea13

That's funny. And your story is repeated far to often on this forum with the seeming failures of Dr's. I can't blame them for my predicament though, I just seemed healthy and didn't have screening on my radar. Sounds like a hobby that has made quite a difference for you and the wife though so good for that.

I have tried a pseudo retirement by trying to slow down at work, I am self employed. Its successful some days and not others. More importantly my mindset has changed and I don't let things stress me out that would have before.

Clearly as I already knew you have things under control for you and I hope when I do have time that you and Nal will still be active on this forum. That day could be any day but most likely 1 day after my most recent blood work :)

maley2711 profile image
maley2711 in reply to pjoshea13

We wouldn't want to all spend our time duplicating your efforts...do you have a background that helps you understand these things?

pjoshea13 profile image
pjoshea13 in reply to maley2711

I started out as a systems generalist, but was forced to specialize at some point (Benefits). Even so, the range is wide: insurance (life & health), savings (including 401(k)) & defined benefit plans (pension calculations, etc). And for most of the time I was dealing with clients from different industries.

18 years ago it was easy to digest what PubMed had on a particular topic, but that was the start of amazing growth. Today there are over 250,000 hits for <prostate> & many more topics to explore.

Sometimes I was forced to review the breast cancer literature (e.g. for the "new" estrogen receptor ERbeta). I wish I knew what the BCa:PCa PubMed ratio was (it was high). Today it is close to 2:1, but we can't complain. {BCa:ovarian cancer is ~4:1}

One thing that I discovered early on, was that researchers want to be understood. The Abstracts are usually well written & not full of jargon. I had to learn terminology, of course. I think that apoptosis might have been the first (programmed cell death.) & then Wikipedia helped out whenever I wanted to learn more:

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apopt...

In the early days, there were not the treatment options of today, so I was concentrating on 'foundation' material. I suspect that many now use PubMed for clinical trial papers, which is fine, but I'm glad I spent a lot of time with the other stuff.

I start the day with coffee & Kakuro. The puzzles take longer when I'm on ADT, which makes me think that they are essential exercise for me. MyHeritage informed me that my DNA looks good - except for the Alzheimer's gene. LOL So my PubMed research is more about keeping the brain is shape, than curing my cancer.

Best, -Patrick

RJ-MN profile image
RJ-MN

I started on metformin, thanks to my GP, in 2011 - the year after I began ADT. With changes in GPs it has sometimes been a battle to stay of metformin, but I've been able to convince them of its help with PCa. Thank you for this post, Patrick

dockam profile image
dockam

Great info, Thanks for posting.I'm 7 years on ADT with an 18 month "holiday" in 2016 to 2017.My latest #s:

CHOL - 170

CHOL/HDL - 2.2

HDL - 76

LDL - 70

TRI - 142

HgbA1C - 5.4

On Metformin(2gm/day) and Lipitor since 01/2016

Still on a 16/8 Intermittent Fast

Whole grain plant based, lotta veggies ( homegrown Broc sprouts and brown mustard), and lean protein diet

Exercise on most days at lunch with a smart phone app and also hikes with bestie Bonnie

Fight on

pjoshea13 profile image
pjoshea13 in reply to dockam

While it would be better for TRI to be below 100, you pass the "TRI should be no more than twice HDL-C" rule. As well as the "TRI should not be above 150" rule.

Regarding sprouts, do you take precautions with the seeds before germinating?

realsimple.com/food-recipes...

I seem to remember that a weak bleach solution will solve that problem.

Best, -Patrick

dockam profile image
dockam in reply to pjoshea13

Thanks for the reply, and did not realize about possible food poisoning with my sprouts. I soak overnight in a plastic sprouter, next day rinse and spin in a grocery bag to expel excess water. I do that daily. I refrigerate them when they are ready. I'll rinse with a mild bleach prior to sprouting.Thanks again

webmd.com/vitamins/ai/ingre...

sproutpeople.org/broccoli-s...

CAMPSOUPS profile image
CAMPSOUPS in reply to pjoshea13

I can ask my wife for more details of the procedures but she uses hydrogen peroxide I think as a pre-wash.Quick, bountiful harvests and we haven't been sick or died ...yet.

LearnAll profile image
LearnAll

If one does not have Metabolic syndrome...being on ADT is enough to cause Metabolic Syndrome. Controlling Metabolic syndrome is one of the best things a man with PCa can do.

MateoBeach profile image
MateoBeach

Very extensive analysis, Patrick. Many of these factors can be brought together and more deeply understood in view of regulatory mechanisms for metabolism during times of scarcity of resources. Genetically wires for survival. This includes the central roles of fructose (dietary and metabolic sources), key role of frucrokinase, depletion of ATP and increase of fat storage via AMPD vs AMPK pathways, Uric acid from AMP purine breakdown (aconitase/polyol pathway. Also intersections with sodium intake and BP dysregulation.If you get the Peter Attia MD podcast, The Drive, there is an excellent recent episode with Rick Johnson MD reviewing it in depth. Episode 194. Absent that there is his most recent book on it; Nature Wants us to be Fat. (Mass market title but really good science. )

gyancey profile image
gyancey in reply to MateoBeach

I just finished that episode yesterday. It was fascinating. If anyone wants a deep dive into nutrition/exercise/fasting ect his podcast is a great resource.

MateoBeach profile image
MateoBeach

I also take celecoxib 400/day as well as atorvastatin and metformin, all for APC. And recently added rapamycin and Dasatinib w quercetin. (And several rotating phyto-ceuticals.)

MateoBeach profile image
MateoBeach

Found the full podcast of Rick Johnson with Peter Attia for free. Very accessible explanations without dumbing it down.

youtube.com/watch?v=V02z9mq...

Cooolone profile image
Cooolone in reply to MateoBeach

Thank you for posting this!

pjoshea13 profile image
pjoshea13 in reply to MateoBeach

Thanks!

I tend to avoid fruit. The small amount of micro-nutrients doesn't compensate for the high sugar load.

I suppose that many assume that the sugar in fruit is all fructose, but there is great variation in the types & proportions of sugars. The USDA is a great resource in that regard.

I do take a teaspoon of fructose in my morning coffee. Not enough to stress the liver, but enough to raise hormonal vitamin D for a few hours.

-Patrick

Scout4answers profile image
Scout4answers

Thanks Patrick for another informative post.

more things to pay attention to.

Neverstop profile image
Neverstop

Great post. Thank you. Can affirm the symptoms of Metabolic Syndrome reared it’s head after 2 years of ADT. No issues prior to that. Perfect labs, weight, body comp and exercise protocol prior while being in 70s. However the Met symptoms are physical vs what shows in lab tests.

Jac_J profile image
Jac_J

Does any one here use a Continuous Glucose Monitor (CGM)? I dont need one but I have started taking my blood glucose levels several times a day for interest and to see if I can associate food types with glucose spikes.

Muffin2019 profile image
Muffin2019

I had none of those and yet here I am with cancer with no family history, go figure.

London441 profile image
London441

A clean, caloric restricted diet and plenty of hard exercise and you likely don’t need to even think about metabolic syndrome or any of the other risk factors.

Weighing the cost benefit of exercise is absurd, but I do see it from time to time here. Any lack of data about its power is of no consequence. Those of us who put in the work know it’s not ‘optional’ at all. Vigorous exercise enhances life like nothing else, nothing can compare. It is superior to any drug or supplement. Yet so few do it, or don’t do it nearly as intensely or consistently as they need to. Most are unwilling, almost no one is unable.

15% of people over 65 diagnosed with cancer are physically active, and we know that the typical American diet is poison. This is abysmal. The average man with Pca arrived at diagnosis fat and deconditioned, then often gets put on ADT. Gas on the fire. It’s a wonder the numbers aren’t worse.

No wonder our disease is known as the one you get and ‘die of something else first.’ Most guys have already set the table by the time they get here..

maley2711 profile image
maley2711

looking at your posting history, appears you are the clear winner. Full-time hobby? If one implements all the suggestions re diet, medications, etc...what is the mean increase in PCa-specific survival? Overall?

Cooolone profile image
Cooolone

Wow! Thank you for taking your time to post such a relevant and useful collection of information and thoughts! I can be your poster child in all of the above, absent obesity...

I was pre-diabetic prior to, and then coincidentally with my PCa diagnosis. A family history of high triglycerides, HBP, etc., I was always on the lookout. Triglycerides were slightly elevated also prediagnosis of PCa. Enter the world of PCa discovery, and then surgery with ADT & RT all within a year... Subsequent blood work discovers full blown diabetes, elevated lipids and cholesterol! All while still working that encompassed an average of 12-15 miles per day of walking and I high stress environment. But through discovery, education and whatnot, I was able to control it via diet alone. Although I did begin medication for the elevated lipids.

I worked and walked thru my 40 RT sessions as an example, and could feel the slow progression of fatigue and overall physical decline between day 1 & 40 as I walked the same path, same stairs, etc., most of the way to and fro treatments, and what was easy at the start became a task by end.

But the progression of glucose control, or lack thereof was disconcerting. Especially now on ADT via Orgovyx. My blood sugars have elevated with the same diet and such, and the addition of Metformin. But what was really confounding was the development of kidney stones. The situation of kidney stones which developed, in all probability, due to the dietary changes I added to address the glucose, ie, lots of salads, nuts, veggies and more. Nobody will say, yes of course, but the diet was and is associated with high oxalates (green leafy veggies, nuts especially, whole grains), which is what my stone was comprised of. The stone of course reared its ugly head right in the midstream course of my Docetaxel therapy last year, preventing any surgical intervention. But the pain it caused required Opiods for mitigation and added the lack of ability to do anything physical which would of course led to additional physical decline. All at the time age of 57... All a conundrum to say the least, lol. If I washed a few dishes I'd have to sit to recover for quite a while! Lol...

But I'm glad you've painted this picture that has clarity and explanation for various cause & effect which I experienced. And you're hitting a lot of targets too in my case, ringing a lot of bells for me, especially when you illuminate the paradigm of Oncologist not being concerned with any of that "stuff" that doesn't necessarily lend to their neat little box of being contributory or causation of Cancer. It is summarily dismissed. Oh, yes, we have specialist that can help you with dietary or physical therapy. But no direct discussion as to the cancer being a catalyst for the bodily changes which have occured. I requested a kidney specialist "in-house" to treat the stone issue, but to no avail. Lol... I'm not sure how or why, overall health isn't encompassed at a Major Cancer Center in regard to treating fringe health issues that may either be caused by the cancer, or lend to effecting it... if "IT" isn't cancer, they seem lost. Hahaha, Anyways...

Interesting post as it highlights nature's way of dealing with the cancer, or that the cancer actually has such a profound effect over a very wide amount of bodily function that isn't being looked at. They're looking at the minutiae, but maybe they should step back and take a look at the wider field at play. Maybe not focus on such pinpoint accuracy and look at the entire picture of cause & effect, or, diet, physical health, overall well being. Don't get me wrong, they DO have all this available, as a secondary feature, but you're dealing with all of these doctors and such, as a separate issue.

I do believe some of those statistical references could be generally associated with age alone as the average diagnosis age is mid-60's when many, if not most adults lifestyles slow down. If love to be able to be in the park around the corner playing handball all day, like when I grew up, lol, but it's not reality ;).

I do disagree with the assumption that dietary changes need to be addressed with every meal or snack, it's just utterly cumbersome and difficult to do so. Almost impossible even, especially in my case, to address both glucose AND Oxalates, as what's good for one, isn't good for the other, in regard to dietary consumption. So I dropped back and punted! I don't really plan everything that goes into my mouth as I once done. I try to just balance it and make sure I'm not overdoing either side, ie, sugars or oxalates. Believe me, I don't want another stone... Lol

Anyways, just reflecting and sharing my story which amazingly resonates with your information provided above. I can attest and validate all as being true, as it has happened to me, lol. But hopefully not the PCa progression as the chemo, along with ADT has exhibited control (so far)!

Wishing you the very Best Regards!

Jalbom49 profile image
Jalbom49 in reply to Cooolone

Sorry to hear about your stone. I had several stones years ago. Avoid oxalates now, used to have gout too.There are low oxalate diets. Anyway I have no trouble doing low carb and low oxalates. No more gout as well.

Sugar and wheat can be addictive. Could that be the problem?

Cooolone profile image
Cooolone in reply to Jalbom49

No, not at all. But the funny thing is my diet had a lot of items that would lend to a high oxalate consumption. Almonds, Whole Wheat breads, lots of peanuts and peanut butter, things like dark green salads, beets, dark chocolate, limited red meat, etc., I also only drank tea, homemade iced tea and green tea. The black tea in large consumption. All excellent for glucose, which I was doing, but no so much for oxalates hahaha! No addiction at all, not a sweet tooth kinda person, can take it or leave it.

The stone was a trip for sure! Did the Lithotripsy to reduce the stone, only to make it small enough to get stuck in my Ureter! Hahaha, is my cloud following me... So I opted for Subcutaneous Lithotonomy as a second effort to just get it out as it was blocking and affecting kidney. It's still slowly just returning to normal... Fingers crossed I'll be able to avoid future episodes by at least watching diet now for both. But not completely disciplined! If I eat oxalates, I'll try to make sure it's accompanied with calcium, etc.

Sucks getting old!

😂

Jalbom49 profile image
Jalbom49 in reply to Cooolone

One of my stones was two toned , Uric acid on the outside and oxalate on the inside. It wouldn’t papas, and they ended up putting a Cather between my bladder and kidney to let it drain and alkalineizing the urine for 6 weeks.It worked and I passed the inner oxalate stone.

I use mostly nettle leaf tea which I believe is low oxalate, and also use Stevia soda.

Cooolone profile image
Cooolone in reply to Jalbom49

Only green tea for me, and I've become a bit if a coffee drinker now, lol. That sounds intense, the catheterization between kidney and bladder. Glad it worked. My Kidney Doc was very understanding and cognizant of the fact I've recovered pretty much 100% function (except stress leakage) from both Surgery and RT for my PCa and didn't really want to mess around much with any catheter that could induce side effects... So I opted for the surgery that I really wanted first, but agreed to the least invasive route as a try! No soda either except maybe once or twice a year as a treat, lol. Sparkling water, that kind of thing is ok. As noted, I really don't want to go through that again! Hahahaha... I read on a kidney forum a guy having like 9 episodes!!! Candidate for Sainthood for sure!

Excellent educational video above, and I'll watch it a few times over... I know though that we can't fight millennia of evolution with a few short months or years of dietary changes. So it's good to know what the body is doing, but I won't give up my steak, occasional cookies, Belgian waffles, bacon, etc. But they're not an everyday thing! All once in a blue moon, lol. After all, what's it all about if we aren't smiling!?

Jalbom49 profile image
Jalbom49 in reply to Cooolone

Yes, the stent was intense. For six weeks it hurt every time I took a leek.Yes, I also drink coffee.

I make my own yogurt and sweeten it with stevia. Over the years I lost my cravings for ice cream and chocolate, I used to make keto ice cream and chocolate chip cookies.

Nowadays childhood obesity and diabetes is common. I was the canary in the coal mine, having obesity since childhood in the fifties.

I am thin now since 2013. I explained this in a long post. For me vegetable. oils are a true metabolic poison, more than other people.

Jalbom49 profile image
Jalbom49

Wonderfull, thoughtful post. Although I am doing great right now, I had at least 25 years of diabetes, and more of pre diabetes and a lifetime problem with obesity since childhood.For 50 years a tried eat less, move more, and had yo-yo weight loss and regain.

That changed in 2013 when I went low carb and started restricting seed oils and supplementing with fish oil, cod liver oil and vitamin d.

Ten years ago, I found that my well controlled diabetes was put totally out of control by 20 mg Lipitor.

Over time I switched to fatty fish from fish oil and cod liver oil because of in the bottle oxidation. I became stricter about seed oils, even avoiding pork and chicken, as they have high levels of linoleic acid in their tissues.

Even before my radical prostatectomy 30 months ago, I started restricting plants.

In 2013, after my first success with low carb, after reading Wheat Belly, I gave up wheat and other grains, and over the next 1-2 years, my autoimmune recent Grave’s disease went away, and I became euthyroid without treatment.

With my surgery, told my bowels might not move for a week, I went Carnivore, or more accurately Ketovore.

I had restarted max dose metformin before surgery and ADT. Prior to my oligometastic dx, I had reversed diabetes by keto and time restricted eating.

So now, waiting my next Psa measurement, on ADT and zytiga vacation for six months, I have been undetectable since prostatectomy. I am Also able to wear even size 30 blue jeans and a hundred pounds down from the weight I was when I was a practicing m.d. my A1c is now normal, but not as good as before I went off metformin when I had an A1C of 4.8 and a fasting insulin of 3.1.

I also had spot RT to my 1-2 Mets after surgery

I started on my journey after reading Gary Taubes book Good Calories, Bad Calories. I don’t believe in the diet heart hypothesis. I believe it has been disproven and I bet my life on it, eating unrestricted saturated fat and cholesterol since 2013.

I have been following Chris Knobbe MD and Tucker Goodrich for years.

They trace the increasing consumption of linoleic acid in vegatable oils since the civil war to the increasing rate of heart disease, cancer, diabetes, macular degeneration.

They follow in the work of Weston A. Price, who a hundred years ago traced declining oral and physical health to the “displacing food of modern commerce”,

Which include the new oils, sugar and roller processing of grains.

Their talks on YouTube are excellent, especially those of the Ancestral Health Symposium.

It is well known that the level of saturated fat in the blood is implicated in heart disease. What is not well known is that this is not correlated with saturated fat consumption but with carbohydrates consumption. This may be important for prostate cancer.

Recently Tucker Goodrich traced the obesogenic effect of vegetable oils to the effects of its breakdown products on the endocannabenoid system, and the blockage of these effects by the drug Remonabent, which unfortunately had to be withdrawn due to side effects.

It is distressing to me that to get healthy I had to unlearn everything my mainstream profession has been advocating. At least I now know what to .

RCOG2000 profile image
RCOG2000

Thank you for this very thoughtful and thorough review

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