Feeling helpless & hopeless

[JB0205]

I dunno what to do anymore. I just turned 39, I was diagnosed around 18 months ago. Tried non-stimulant medication, didn't work, and made my ADHD and the associated depression worse, despite it being an anti-depressant treatment (Strattera/Atomoxatine). Went to adderall, seems to have a minimal effect.

Or at the very least it does nothing for my executive function, so I continue to procrastinate and struggle to start projects, and wind up focusing on the 'I' 'N' & 'P' in INCUP, which isn't good because I am not functioning at an adequate level at work.

None of my work falls into the INP categories, only the C and the U. And only about 25% is C, and I can usually get myself to do that stuff pretty easily. It's the more mundane 75% that I just can't seem to get done until the boss' are hounding me for it or we're up against a deadline or w/e.

So far I tried a few full sessions (beyond just med management) with my psych, but she's not particularly helpful or well-versed in ADHD. On the meds side we keep upping the adderall dosage, and I'm basically at the highest dose now, and still not really helping. We tried ritalin in there for a bit too.

The talk therapist who told me I should see a psych about a possible ADHD diagnosis was great for my other problems (mainly the depression/marital issues at that time, better now on both fronts), but also was not well-versed in ADHD or helping me through these issues.

So after I was in a good spot with my other problems, I moved on and said "let me get an ADHD coach. I thankfully am paid well-enough to be able to afford one. Unfortunately, that was a huge was of $1600. 2 months and I made absolutely no progress.

Coaching involved things like "exercise can help you get going in the morning, and is shown to help ADHD symptoms." That's great, and I'm sure it's true, but I can't even get over the executive functioning hump to get myself to pack a bag at night, and get in bed in early enough to get up early enough to get to the gym, and the never addressed these types of concerns or the fact that I urgently needed to find ways to improve my functioning so I don't wind up losing my job (again).

So I managed to find a talk therapist who specializes in ADHD and she's trying to help me. Been a month and I don't see any progress. So much of it is just "give yourself grace. If you set a goal for a day of work and don't make that goal, it's ok. Don't beat yourself up" blah blah blah.

But I have no other options but to beat myself up. I'm in a profession where I bill my time. I need to do and bill 8 actual hours of work every day to keep my job (attorney), so how am I supposed to give myself grace when my actions are leading me to lose yet another job? The way I function is objectively bad, and the world isn't making any accommodations for me.

The rest of my new therapist's advice is the pomodoro method. Great, but when the alarm goes off to go back to I just turn it off or reset it. "Yeah, but success is just the fact that you're trying!" No, success would be actual fucking success at my career.

I've made no progress on my ADHD in 18 months. I'm in the same shitty habits and cycles I've always been in. In other words, it feels hopeless. I feel like I am not cut out for adult life. I cannot function in the basic ways I need to live.

Even things with my wife, which got so much better after my diagnosis, because things made sense, has been gradually getting more upset with me since I started this new job in August. I have no shot at change. I am who I am.

I've wasted 39 years of my life failing at a profession I am 110% smart enough for, but incapable of managing my brain and my time and my to do list well enough to do the job. Too late to change now (nor could I afford any potential re-education that it would take, nor do I really have any transferable legal skills).

And even if "it's never too late to change," I don't know where I could even begin to find a job I could succeed at with this fucking disorder, that would pay me in-line with what I need/want/hope/expect/make now. Just pure helplessness and hopelessness. If there's anyone out there who has experienced similar feelings, or has any advice, I'd love to hear it all.

[K9Love25]

I’m sorry this is happening to you. I was diagnosed as a young child but despite being educated in my diagnosis and having the help I needed I feel completely unprepared for adulthood. I can share somethings that might help though. One thing I’ll do sometimes is shower and go to sleep in my base layer of work clothes. This won’t work if it’s too hot, but if I’m already dressed for work it takes out a huge part of my morning stress. I also keep my medicine next to my bedside and set an alarm for an hour before I need to get up. All I do for that alarm is take my medicine and go back to sleep. That way when I’m meant to wake up my meds are completely kicked in and I feel calmer. I still haven’t found a good adult therapist, so unfortunately I don’t know what to do about that, but surrounding yourself with other adhd people is a good start. I would also take documentation of your diagnosis to HR and ask for reasonable accommodations because ADHD is considered a protected disability under ADA. If you aren’t American id look at your country’s disability laws for something similar so that you can do your job without fear of being fired for your diagnosis.

[peaceneeded in reply to K9Love25]

WOW !! welcome to my world!!! Everything you are going through is pretty common with those living with ADHD. I was diagnosed in my 30's. Im a bit older then you so for me there werent many treatment options like their are now. Back then antidepressants were it. I have always self medicated with alcohol and weed. I tried all the common anti's at the time (prozac, effexor, welbutrin and settled with generic paxil. I can only imagine the selection of drugs they have now!! I personally prefer older , common, medications that have been prescribed for years. My ah-ha moment came abpox 10 years. I wanted to drop a few lbs and at the time my insurance covered weight loss treatment. The treatment was Phentamine. The very first dose was a game changer. My brain " cleared" with in 30 minutes. The dwelling stopped and I could focus!!!! I felt marvalous ! reflecting back on growing up in the 80's it all made sense why my drugs of choice have always been amphetamines. All I really new about adhd children were treated with riddlin. So 20 years after my diagnosis I used a thing called the internet and resrched adult adhd treatment. #1 treatment, amphetamines!!! The rest is history. Adderal aka: dextroamp-amphetamin 30 mg literally saved my life. It 100% works for me. I had to play with the dosage at first . The beauty for me is after 10 years I have not built up a resistance. I feel the same effect on 15 mg as I did from day one. The only difference is how often I take 15 mg. Just depends on the day and what project requires intense focus. somedays I want to just chill and might not take more then 15 mg at the start of my day. If I start my day to late Ill skip it completely. After all these years my system needs dosage so I have to pay attention . However, when I am in focus mode working on something, 15 mg every 4 hrs , 3 times aday is my actual prescribed dosage. Now....the damage / trauma I have suffered growing up with an extreme learning disability is an entirly different issue. being told I was lazy, stupid , not trying hard enough yada yada yada, has a way of tearing ones sense of self. I ve never married and have no kids. My choice for emotional therapy has always been animals. There is not and never will be a cure for adhd. It s a very individual disoreder .. I enjoy my beer, weed, and now expirementing with CBD. Its important that I mention my substance abuse serves a pupose at the end of my day, when the ampheamines wear off. I never mix the two, it would defeat the entire purpose. Amphet have actually helped me cut back on alcohol consumption and weed prevents " focus". As you can tell my spelling sucks! If I have to go to every word with a red line and right click to correct spelling, Ill be here all day. reading and writing are not my thing. The moral of my adhd message is amphedamines work. Start with the most common generic form first. talk with your doctor. you have to do your own due dillegence and resarch every medication. Understand common side effects. It took me many years to find something that works. Excersise is Key!!! when your body is constantly moving your brain has to allow a tiny bit of focus to continue the movement. oh.. and one more piece of advice...... ride a horse, rescue a dog, care for something that will never judge, never criticise, I truly believe the unconditional love of an animal can save the world😀

[JB0205 in reply to K9Love25]

Unfortunately, I live in America. In an at-will state. So I have absolutely no protections or safety net. I have my wife, but she was stressed to her breaking point when I was only making $50k per year the last couple of years trying my hand at commission-based head-hunting. Naturally I didn't have the necessary work ethic to succeed in that role either.

[peaceneeded]

I have to ask.... you mention you are an attorney???? I am fascinated how people with adhd make it through higher education. I'm lucky I made it through high school.

[JB0205 in reply to peaceneeded]

Haha thanks. I 110% get that. I always HATED school, but I was a very good student. I think that's part of what is so frustrating for me. My issues with being an attorney were never understanding the material or putting out good work product. I coasted my way through HS, college & law school doing the bare minimum (always procrastinating, constant all-nighters in college and law school simply because I never managed my time properly), but still finishing with a 98 average in HS (top-10%), a 3.1 GPA in college (large state institution, top-100 university), and I finished at a top-75 law school with a 3.3 (down from a 3.65 in my first semester, when I actually worked hard at it, because, you know, the novelty wore off). I passed the bar exam studying about 25% of what my peers did (2 weeks vs. 8 weeks).

When I have issues with my many employers over the course of my now 13-year career, the partners (or managers when I worked for corporations) always told me how great my work product was. I just never could bill enough hours. Of course I didn't know why it was such a struggle until 18 months ago. I just thought I was an lazy asshole my whole life (I still feel this way to a large extent). But when you're a lawyer, depending on the firm, you have a minimum number of billable hours you have to do, and I've never once hit that number. It's becoming a problem at my new firm I just started at in November.

[Inga_M]

I can feel your despair through your story, but I think it's too early. Your story sounds very much like my own father's, who is a most typical ADHD though he had never had an idea about it. All he knew was that he was not like others, and no one understood him. He's one of the smartest and wittiest men I have ever met, but he never could handle a job for more than 3 years. Nor could I - another genetic ADHD, though female. We both felt the same as you - no motivation to wake up in the morning, bored to death at work, procrastinating till the last moment, impulsive when we see injustice even if that does not concern us personally, and so on. As I was diagnosed with ADHD, the doctor prescribed medicine and therapy. That was the last time I saw a doctor and of course, I never used any medication and therapy. I just did a lot of reading on ADHD to get to understand and manage myself better. And that seems to help. Having a very supportive husband and son was another major factor. So, here are a couple of good things I learned. I hope they can be useful to you too.

First, I stayed the longest at jobs where I had good relations with colleagues and where I could get unpaid leave from time to time. Taking breaks from time to time to stay home or travel helps to fight the internal opposition to get up and walk myself to work. Also, though I was diagnosed relatively recently, I found that sharing my diagnosis with my boss and colleagues helped a lot - they understand me better and were very helpful.

Second, we are very easily motivated and demotivated. I felt that understanding clearly what motivates and demotivates me was a key. I found that ideas like "I have to go to work because that is my duty" or "because otherwise, I would lose my job" rather demotivated me. But I could always motivate myself with some small goals of my own. E.g., I have to buy a new apartment, hence I need to earn x amount of money within t amount of time. ADHDs can get hyperfocused, and as soon as I set my hyperfocus on a personal goal, everything that needs to be done for it becomes reasonable and worthwhile, including getting up and going to work. I could similarly motivate myself with the goal of outperforming others or reaching a milestone that was deemed undoable. The phrase "it's impossible" has always been a natural adrenaline booster for me, I would work day and night to prove it was possible.

Third, as I know I cannot trust myself to stick to a job for lengthy periods, I successfully left aside career ambitions in my mid-30s, and instead set up material wealth ambitions so that I do not have to depend on regular salary for my expenses. I ended up buying small rental apartments (personal goals) in the past 13 years, which bring me a solid monthly income, higher than the salary I earn. Unfortunately, my country does not offer nice investment opportunities, unlike the US or Europe, otherwise, I would also invest and get income from there too. The feeling that I do not have to work for a living somehow makes work less hateful and boring for me.

Finally, with age, ADHD gets milder, and I feel it year by year. I get more patient, positive, and less impulsive. Also, I got used to accepting and loving myself as I am, and not paying attention to what others think. What I thought to be a total unpreparedness for adult life now became simply my own way of adult life. Had someone offered me to be born without ADHD, I might agree. Had someone offered me to take away my ADHD today or ten years ago, I would have refused. In many ways ADHD has made me who I am - the energetic, risk-taking, life-loving woman who fought her way to independence and well-being in a very patriarchal society.

I wish you good luck. If a bored, depressed, and lazy person like me could do that, so can you.

[JB0205 in reply to Inga_M]

Thank you for your well-thought out response. There's definitely some things to try there.

Interesting that you've developed a portfolio of rental properties. That's always been a goal/dream of mine. But my impulsivity (particularly with money) and poor money management have left it far out of reach here in America.

Personal goals definitely feel like a decent way to reframe things. Maybe that will work. I work for a fairly old school, larger law firm. A small 'c' conservative type of place. The type of place where they called everyone back to the office 4 days a week, and we still have to dress business casual (no jeans or t-shirts) every day we're in the office, etc. So saying "hey, you know how my entire value is derived by how many hours I bill? I have this disorder that prevents me from meeting the minimum requirements" probably isn't going to go over very well. I'm not even sure what difference it would make if they understood me. I have to bill 1900 hours a year, period. Full stop. If you do the math on that, it's not pretty...

52 weeks a year x 5 work days = 260

Deduct 10 bank holidays

Deduct 20 vacay/personal/sick days

Now you're at 230

That's basically 8 hours, 15 minutes of billable time every day. Can't count bathroom breaks or lunch breaks, or breaks when I'm sitting at my desk figuring out what task to start next, or breaks when I fall down an internet rabbit hole or breaks where I find some way to distract myself from all the tasks I don't want to do.

So you can see how the predicament arises. 8:15 probably takes me 10:30 on a good day. And frankly I haven't billed 7, let alone 8 in 4 months at this job. I think I can count on one hand the amount of times I billed 6. I don't think I ever would've chosen this profession if I knew what I know now. But there's no natural exit options (at least none that I haven't already failed at thanks to my ADHD).

Also the age thing is interesting. I've been aware of the issues my ADHD has caused throughout my life, even before I knew I had ADHD, and it frankly seems as bad as ever. This time last year I had a job as a legal head hunter, and I basically just completely shut down and stopped working. I was in a deep depression in part due to the ADHD. I'm already 39 and thinking back I just really can't see how it has improved at all as I've aged. Maybe the impulsivity a little bit. But not the procrastination or the inability to work diligently and efficiently.

[Inga_M in reply to JB0205]

I read your answers to some of the recommendations, and seem to have a better picture of your situation. so let me refer to it in some additional detail.

First, ADHD is a comparatively new discipline in the world and the overall approach is that "these poor people have a mental handicap and are not adjusted to life". Bullshit. I believe it is as much that the world is not adjusted to ADHDs. Just imagine - a bunch of people with extra-quick brain processing (remember how you study or work twice as quicky as others), increased risk-taking, elevated amounts of energy, super-rationality and intuition! We are natural-born crisis managers, change managers, challenge takers, entrepreneurs, and so on. With all these benefits, we most naturally have a few shortcomings - we lose energy levels soon (because we focus and spend them in bulk), we need regular movement and challenges to avoid boredom, and we need acknowledgment and praise to stay motivated (who doesn't). Imagine, if employers learn to deal with our shortcomings and commercialize our talents how much extra profit they will get and how much the world will benefit. So, please stop seeing yourself as unfit, it's the world that's unfit for you and for us. Instead, you might consider trying a more active and liberal environment for work. I found that tech firms and NGOs are the most flexible and active environments. I am sure not all tech firms and NGOs in the US outsource their legal jobs fully, some of them may need internal lawyers, and you might thrive in these environments. To confess, if I worked in a law firm or a bank, or any other such conservative environment, I would perhaps run away in half a year.

Money management: I always loved spending money - buying stuff for myself and my family, closing total bills in restaurants for friends, etc. At some point in my late 20s, I understood I needed a scheme for balancing my spending and saving, so I took the contrary principle of what most "normal" people do. I decided that I would spend all till the last penny when i earn little, and save all when i earn much. The logic is easy - with a small salary, i would be able to save a maximum USD500 per month (in my country 500 is something like 2-2.5K in the US) - which would deprive me of a lot of fun, and would not take me to any serious investments. With a good salary, I could shift to an economy regime and save around 2K per month ( close to 8-10k in the US) - in a year that could be enough to downpay for a piece of land or a small apartment. I still hold this principle and that works well for me. So that's my money management scheme which helps balance periods of fun spending and periods of saving and investment.

About buying rental apartments: I have noticed, that when you very badly want something, means to that always flows your way. When i decided to buy my first rental apartment, I was 30, unemployed, with a 1-year-old son, and thinking of divorcing my domineering and abusive then-husband. I had 2.5K USD on my bank account, which was ridiculous. However, I noticed that house prices were increasing week over week. So I borrowed money from family and friends, and played on the market price increase, buying and selling several apartments. This was a risky game, but in 10 months I covered all my debt and was left with enough money to buy my first one-bedroom. And as soon as you have your first piece of real estate, you have enough backing to start expanding it. You need to find growing real estate markets in the US or abroad, consider the price-to-rent ratio, and get to know real estate agents or officials in construction firms, who will make friendly recommendations to you and give you access. E.g. five years ago our agent and friend recommended us to very quickly buy an apartment in a luxury complex still under construction. Today that apartment costs over 4 times the price we paid, plus brings a lot of monthly rental money. If we risked borrowing more money and also bought a studio in the same complex, sales of that studio alone would cover all our expenses, and practically we would have our 2-bedroom for free. So, if you're not rich enough to just pay and buy, you'll have to do some extra maths, but it's quite doable.

About depression: I have it regularly, actually, it has become my good old friend. So i respect its right to exist in my head from time to time, but give it concrete time boundaries - a couple of weeks or a month. I spend that time angry, self-contained, arguing around, not getting out of bed, or whatever. But then I just get up and get my life going, filled with new energy.

Overall, my experience showed that docs do not hold the key to your well-being, it's totally in your head. Just try to program yourself in the right direction, and it will get going. Believe in yourself, love yourself, tell yourself you are born to be happy and successful, even if reason tells you otherwise. You'll be a winner.

[peaceneeded]

and one more thing. You dont need to change. You need to manage. Focus is essential but not 24-7. keep experimenting with amphetamines. You will know fairly quickly when something works. Antidepressants need to build up in your system and could take months to benefit. The effect from an amphetamine hits pretty quickly. If something doesn't work, onto the next. Research medications, and choose something to try. Go to your doctor prepared. Ask and suggest. I assure you, once you find that magic pill....game on!

[JB0205 in reply to peaceneeded]

I've been on lexapro for a year (atomoxatine for 6 months before that, which only led me to my deepest depression and the worst stretch of ADHD in recent memory). Lexapro was a miracle drug at first (for my depression, not my adderall). Now it's whatever. I'm definitely not having the same positive feelings as I was when it first kicked in last summer. We have upped dosages a couple times. Now we've added in buproprion, been a month of that.

Today is instructive. Fridays are the only days I work from home. Drove my wife to work this morning because she had a lot of bags. Ran 2 errands. Got back a little before 10, ate breakfast, and didn't sit at my desk until after 11am (let's call it a 90 minute breakfast). I've now been at my desk for 10 hours. Literally only got up to use the bathroom, I have not eaten, not had a glass of water, nothing. I have not let my dogs out to pee, I have just sat on my fat ass, and now I'm going to go get high so I don't have to think about this shit anymore.

I billed 0 hours of work in 10 hours at my desk. I didn't even log in to my work system until 4:30 when I had an email I had to respond to about a project that should've been done 2 days ago based on how little I've billed this week. So now I will have to work this weekend to get it done. And frankly, the "urgency" in INCUP, which has always been a good motivator for me, has been failing me lately. All I've done all day is screw around on the internet, mostly for college basketball stuff (my passion). It's like my adderall only helps me focus on the shit I want to do anyway.

[Rustreloaded in reply to peaceneeded]

Here in the UK family doctors are called GPs - general practitioners. One of my mantras is "never forget what the "g" stands for", this means avoiding turning up for an appointment without knowing what's wrong, what the accepted clinical pathways are for dealing with what's wrong (in the UK that means being very familiar with the National Institute for Clinical Excellence guidance) - and having well thought out reasons for why your preferred method of approach is the one to be tried first. I would wholeheartedly concur with your guidance "Go to your doctor prepared". This doesn't mean becoming a difficult patient, it means being an active and well informed partner in your health care and not getting sent off down treatment routes about which you know nothing or next to nothing and if you had known ahead of time might have been able to discuss with your doctor why you don't think they are the most appropriate in your particular circumstances (check out Janine Driver, a co-ADHDer's TedX talk on YT: DECIDED ly because changes what was youtube.com/watch?v=L9UIF85...(Not working as expected?) ).

[DyslexicMission]

Hello, microdosing red fly agaric helps me. Among the benefits, it acts very gently when the dosage is correctly selected. It has a positive effect on the entire body, does not cause addiction, and there is no fatigue or overexertion from taking it. Yes, I also have ADHD, but at least now I can do something, and the focus of attention does not go away as before, when the day passed, and you only did 10%-30% of what was planned. Now this indicator is 70-80% and more. I also developed habits that have become daily for me, such as workouts, language learning, running a YouTube channel. Before, it took a lot of effort and concentration for this, now it’s significantly easier. Don’t fall into despair, 39 is a great age, you just need a little reboot.

[matt_k]

I’m 39 as well and your story mirrors mine very closely. I am a talented artist but I cannot keep a job more than a year due to the struggle I have with ADHD, GAD, and PTSD. It feels like I’m two steps away from being homeless. At times, the anxiety feels too overwhelming. I’m hopeful there is a way to rebuild my life but seeing that future is very difficult now.