Donating blood to reduce high ferritin

[Noelnoel]

Has anybody done this? Im sure lots of you have but I’m wondering if my recent iron panel suggests compatibility with donating blood

Thanks

[SlowDragon Administrator]

How old are you

Updated reference ranges for top of ferritin range depending upon age

healthunlocked.com/thyroidu...

Thank you for your incredible patience while you have been awaiting the outcome of our ferritin reference range review. We conducted this with Inuvi lab, which has now changed the reference ranges to the following:

Females 18 ≤ age < 40. 30 to 180

Females 40 ≤ age < 50. 30 to 207

Females 50 ≤ age < 60. 30 to 264l

Females Age ≥ 60. 30 to 332

Males 18 ≤ age < 40 30 to 442

Males Age ≥ 40 30 to 518

The lower limits of 30 are by the NICE threshold of <30 for iron deficiency. Our review of Medichecks data has determined the upper limits. This retrospective study used a large dataset of blood test results from 25,425 healthy participants aged 18 to 97 over seven years. This is the most extensive study on ferritin reference ranges, and we hope to achieve journal publication so that these ranges can be applied more widely.

[Noelnoel in reply to SlowDragon]

Really? So my level is safe?

[helvella Administrator Thyroid UK in reply to Noelnoel]

My ferritin was around 450 last time it was tested. No comment made by GP. I am older and male.

I did consider giving blood because that was a significant rise since previous result. But was unable to for various reasons. And I only ever looked at it as an option that might help prevent it rising further - not as a treatment.

I have a blood test tomorrow - no idea what they will test - maybe ferritin again? Or maybe not. But if it is similar, I'll not be concerned, only if it is rising appreciably.

[Noelnoel in reply to helvella]

helvella, thank you

Would be useful for you to know what’s it doing so I hope it gets tested again

[SlowDragon Administrator in reply to Noelnoel]

Absolutely fine

Just get full iron panel every 2-3 years to check iron isn’t high

[radd]

Noelnoel,

Your iron panel is good and does not show signs of iron overload.

Ferritin is an unreliable marker as high levels can be due inflammation.

[Noelnoel in reply to radd]

Good to know it’s good, thank you for that news

As I don’t have inflammation (according to crp) is it something I should monitor

[radd in reply to Noelnoel]

Noelnoel,

They are different inflammatory markers that don’t always follow each other at low over-range amounts. Eg CRP might only be influenced by ferritin at levels over 1000 for instance.

CRP is associated more with significant infection or tissue injury as opposed to the chronic inflammation that elevated ferritin is known to represent. Although it becomes complicated because CRP can also raise in some autoimmunity and ferritin can raise in response to a cut or a cold.

I wouldn't worry with these results.

[Noelnoel in reply to radd]

Thank you RADD

It IS very complicated but I just wonder why mine went from a stubborn low to over range high. I used to think it was because I’d over supplemented but now I’m not so sure

I’d love to take your advice not to worry but I can’t help but wonder. What other inflammation markers are there

[radd in reply to Noelnoel]

Noelnoel,

There are many other acute phase proteins and multiple mediators of inflammation not often used in diagnosis, and other used tests that indirectly measure acute phase proteins such as ESR that measures how fast red cells fall through a column of blood and is an indirect index of some acute-phase protein concentrations. Plasma viscosity raises inline with ESR and some think better as isn’t affected by haematocrit variations.

CRP is an acute phase protein but nonspecific in indicating cause of acute inflammation. Haptoglobin is another acute-phase protein that raises in cancer and other. Elevated TNF is a cytokine that signifies systemic inflammation and is often raised in Hashi.

[Noelnoel in reply to radd]

Thank you radd for all that info

Gosh, where does one begin or would it be more appropriate to ask: where does it end. I think I’ll leave it alone for now. Exhausting

I’d never have thought, not that long ago that I’d ever be reading a health forum on a daily basis looking for answers to a health problem AND actually imagining health issues where none existed. Mind blowing

[radd in reply to Noelnoel]

Noelnoel,

A sudden jump in ferritin does sound like an inflammatory response just when you happened to test. If this were me I would retest using an iron panel again in 4 - 6 months for reassurance.

[Noelnoel in reply to radd]

Do you think so?

I’m just now remembering that 9 months ago I had what felt like osteo-arthritis in one of my fingers. I started intensive massage on it which helped enormously but a dull ache lingered and lingered. It wasn’t til I started drinking black seed oil that one day I realised it wasn’t tender any more. It took less than two weeks of drinking it and of course could be coincidental

I wonder if that “osteo-arthritic” phase could’ve caused the hike in ferritin

I’ll enter a reminder to repeat it just after Christmas

Thank you

[Noelnoel in reply to radd]

I’ve just remembered this reassuring revision of levels that SlowDragon provided earlier. I’m 65 next month

Females 18 ≤ age < 40. 30 to 180

Females 40 ≤ age < 50. 30 to 207

Females 50 ≤ age < 60. 30 to 264l

Females Age ≥ 60. 30 to 332

Males 18 ≤ age < 40 30 to 442

Males Age ≥ 40 30 to 518

[radd in reply to Noelnoel]

Yes, the higher levels take into account inflammation.

However, ferritin is an acute phase reactant for many types of inflammation so doesn't have to be exclusive to chronic, but also a sore throat or cut finger as a host defence mechanism to deprive bacterial growth.

[Noelnoel in reply to radd]

So the higher level of 332 for > 60 females isn’t a healthy level then. It means levels may reach 332 if a person has inflammation of any kind? That’s confusing and misleading or am I getting in muddle?

No need to an answer tonight. A question for another day

Thanks you for all your helpful explanations

[radd in reply to Noelnoel]

Noelnoel,

Haha, you aren’t gonna let this go 😁 and I enjoy talking iron 😁…

We generally test ferritin because it reflects total body iron storage and is the established nutritional marker of iron status BUT only in those people whose iron mechanisms are working well/normally. We can’t excrete iron so correct levels are maintained by many different mechanisms with ferritin regulated by hepcidin, which plays a role in reducing intestinal iron absorption.

Unfortunately with un/mismanaged hypothyroidism and/or autoimmune conditions, iron mechanisms commonly go askew and ferritin levels are not always indicative of true iron levels. For instance in the presence of inflammation, elevated ferritin may conceal poor iron status and it is possible to have anaemia with high serum iron levels and any amount of ferritin should iron not be being utilised correctly (usually due to systemic inflammation or genetics).

So to give your health the benefit of the doubt let us assume your iron mechanisms are working well …. If ferritin is high due to chronic inflammation it is obviously not healthy.

If ferritin is high due to a response to a cold and you happened to test during this phase, then it is a normalised and healthy response designed to protect you from further illness or immune irregularities.

I assume your next question will be so how do we know what a high ferritin level is indicating? You can’t know for certain so that is why a full iron panel is useful and you retest in a few months, but generally if you have systemic inflammation you are achy, possibly have swollen joints, maybe some heat, ‘things’ in general might not be working too well, and importantly other inflammatory markers would be raised also. This is when further investigations would be needed as elevated ferritin has been identified as a predictor of conditions such as cardiac issues and insulin resistance/diabetes.

Should you start testing other inflammatory markers at this stage? No, unless you suspect you have an inflammatory condition such as RA, lupus, etc, or the above conditions.

If you retest in 4-6 months and ferritin was raised but the remaining iron panel was normal and chronic inflammation wasn't felt, I myself still wouldn’t be worried as ferritin goes up and down (even daily, hence the enormous range) as is yet another mechanism to ensure correct free iron levels.

However, if ferritin was still raised and the remaining iron panel showed signs of increased iron with higher transferrin saturation, then it would be prudent to take the ferritin level seriously and suspect iron overload. You would then need a FBC to assess RBC health and check haemoglobin levels are high enough to withstand a blood donation.

Most of our iron is stored in haemoglobin, and iron is required to form haemoglobin that carries oxygen and removes carbon dioxide waste from the body. It is haemoglobin that the donation center will test via a finger prick prior to donation in order to eliminate any form of anaemia.

I hope this has put your mind at rest. I was trying to find you a YouTube video on how ferritin works but they all go into complicated and difficult explanation, but it might still be worth you looking yourself. I find the mechanisms of iron workings fascinating as have genetic iron overload controlled with 500ml blood taken 2 or 3 times a year.

There are numerous influences on ferritin that are often unknown/overlooked such as Vit D, a big subject on this forum as often deficient. Vit D is another mediator of inflammation, and regulates part of the hepciden–ferroportin system. Increased Vit D levels are known to reduce hepcidin levels and studies are showing an inverse association between serum 25(OH)D and ferritin in some groups. I’m now left wondering if members difficulties with raising ferritin levels could be related to their Vit D difficulties? Out of interest are your Vit D levels very low?

[Noelnoel in reply to radd]

I know, sorry, sometimes I’m like a dog with a bone

That’s an amazing amount of information which you’ve explained very well, some of which I’m grasping

You mention hepcidin. I have consistently raised (and rising) liver enzymes which I imagine are skewing hepcidin levels but upwards or down? I’ve looked at a paper but it doesn’t make it clear (to me) which way hepcidin would go. This would give me, inconclusive I know, but an indication of whether hepcidin could be responsible for my raised ferritin

Your paragraph on vit d is interesting and pertinent but I don’t understand the relationship between it and ferritin. You reference its influence on reduction of hepcidin; I sporadically supplement vit d, could it be that my consistently high levels of it are lowering hepcidin? I suppose yes. Can low hepcidin raise ferritin levels? Is that a yes too?

Despite all my questions you’ve reassured me somewhat and I feel relieved and a bit more relaxed about it, I can now put this anxiety on the back burner for a while. I’m really grateful for that. Your effort and time in trying to simplify this have been really helpful and informative and given food for thought. Thank you very much

[beh1]

I donate blood to keep levels in range, and to help others in need. 😃

[Noelnoel in reply to beh1]

Never have before because mine’s always been low. Also a bit of mistrust when I found out they were taking husband’s blood when his was normal but low normal

[beh1 in reply to Noelnoel]

Well they just do a simple test on site to check iron levels adequate for donation. I know mine have a tendency to be high so am a frequent donor.

[FallingInReverse]

As noted above - the whole iron panel is important to look at together - ideally with a CRP measure. Did you say you have a CRP number done at the time this panel was done?

The other two things I focus on are keeping iron at 55-70% in range and equally important Transferrin Saturation percent definitely IN range but targeting middle of the range.

Your iron is 77% through - but remember this number can move up and down quickly and even an an iron rich meal the night before can impact it. So it’s a sign to be considered in the big picture over the long term.

Your saturation is also on the higher side, but not over. Again - a point in time to watch and adjust around.

I will read replies above, but assuming you are not supplementing (or haven’t been supplementing)?

The key for me and iron is frequent testing every 6-8 weeks, being aware and tracking my iron intake , and I am in search of the elusive “maintenance “ supplement level based on what I am learning over time about how my body absorbs it. This is wildly different for everyone so being watchful (as you are) and understanding your iron intake and its impact on your entire itin panel, is essential. Doctors never tell us this. Nor do they have time to be so individual with every patient.

You are correct in taking these results seriously, but depending on your history and what you know about yourself, donating might not be an obvious action before you learn more.

[SlowDragon Administrator in reply to FallingInReverse]

The key for me and iron is frequent testing every 6-8 weeks,

Really?!

Every 6-8 weeks …..or did you mean 6-8 months

[FallingInReverse in reply to SlowDragon]

Haha! Every 6-8 weeks : ) … when supplementing … and titrating… or yes, when iron is trending higher to the upper ranges.

I know I’m conservative in general when it comes to iron, but when excess iron builds in your body… it accumulates and stays for a lifetime.Your body has no way to excrete excess iron, and it creates permanent and irreversible damage over time. That’s enough for me to lean conservative.

I am supplementing, and I get included every time I do my thyroid panel.

But if too expensive or burdensome , when supplementing, I still wouldn’t recommend waiting more than 12 weeks until you know how your body absorbs and you understand what your own maintenance dose is.

I’ve watched my daughter and my iron results (mostly iron itself) go up and down to extremes in short timeframes.

[Noelnoel in reply to FallingInReverse]

Thank you for your well-thought-out, wise and informative reply

I’ve read with interest what you say and will monitor from time to time. Perhaps not as frequently as 6-8 wks

In answer to your question. CRP has always remained low and I haven’t supplemented iron for 18 months, possibly longer

[FallingInReverse in reply to Noelnoel]

Totally agree especially when not supplementing. Will be interested to see how it resolves, keep us posted!

[HealthStarDust]

I’ve done this recently.

My ferritin has been steadily increasing over 100 across several tests (my recent test had it above 200, but I have my doubts on how accurate that could be), and my saturation came back somewhat high. After discussing it with my GP, we both agreed that we slightly overshot things with iron supplements. While my results didn’t suggest iron overload by NHS standards, I am slightly concerned I can not handle a ferritin level above 50 ish.

Since there is no way the body can rid itself of access iron, it’s a good idea.

[radd in reply to HealthStarDust]

HealthStarDust

Ferritin isn’t iron but a protein that iron binds to, so preventing iron from being free.

[HowNowWhatNow]

last time my iron levels were checked my ferritin was low (29, as I recall) but my HB levels were high (over 140). So I have the opposite problem to you.

Sorry - I can’t answer your question. If anyone does know what high HB, low ferritin means (I am aware this warrants a separate post of its own, but as am looking after two kids with norovirus am not doing things the proper way today!) please can you tell me.

[Noelnoel in reply to HowNowWhatNow]

I’ll start one on your behalf so ad not to confuse this one

Hope the children are better soon and you don’t get too frazzled!

[Noelnoel in reply to HowNowWhatNow]

I’ve done it do look out for it. If you check my latest post you'll find all incoming replies

[HowNowWhatNow in reply to Noelnoel]

Thank you. Did not expect that level of attention to detail / consideration - mind blown and day made.

[Noelnoel in reply to HowNowWhatNow]

Glad to help