maybe not a good day for revisiting this having serious head wobble.
I am confused, DIO1 rs 2235544 AA, normal not increased activity , normal not increased FT4 to FT3 conversion
DIO1 rs 11206244 CT, T associated with lower DIO1 activity, likely decreased clearance of rT3 from circulation, and lower conversion of T4 to T3.
DIO2 rs22504 TC, C associated with anxiety and depression in many cases of those taking T4 replacement therapy, this can be overcome by taking combined T4/T3 therapy
DIO2 rs12885300 CT, T, associated with increased DIO2 activity , has been shown to present as lower T4 and rT3 and higher T3
Where it gets weirder COMT GA, A rs 4680 associated with increased risk of thyroid dysfunction as slow clearance of stress hormones and oestrogen
FKBPS rs 1360780 CT, T impaired cortisol regulation and lower stress resilience leads to lower Thyroid hormones
Getting bored now, PDE8B GA rs 4704397 reduced sensitivity to TSH
TNF-a-inflammation, GA, A on rs 1800269 increased likelihood of over-reactive autoimmune inflammatory immune responses , increased risk of chronic inflammatory autoimmune conditions.
TSHR receptor AA rs 179247 linked to presence of TSHR antibodies (TRab) ? Graves?
Anyone still awake?
Genetic Traits susceptible to H-Pylori , in the 8% of population susceptible to CD and other autoimmune conditions, in the 20% of population association with genetically decreased insulin secretion , in 40% population associated with decreased leptin receptivity.
Can't convert beta-carotene to Vit A, MTHFR GA, slower to convert folate to active form,
FUT2 B12, poor absorption , have reduced ability to bind and transport vit D, low receptivity to vit d and increased need
To top it off I am genetically prone to tendon and ligament injury, and the gene GSTMI is likely absent so more prone to damage from free radicals and apparently exercise makes it worse.
Think I might be a bit F***ed š
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apparently , well I think someone has interpreted it, there is a huge amount of information , some of which is contradictory š¤ so not really any wiser, which when considering the starting point is quite telling š¤«š¤
The caveat with gene testing is that your genes can be clean but act dirty also they can be dirty but act clean... just because there might be a wonk doesn't necessarily mean that it is 'live' and vice versa
Your results are very similar to mine if we swapped the Vit C/D over
If you want to understand your genes better grab a copy of Dirty Genes by Dr Ben Lynch.... that should make your head spin š but is does give symptomatic breakdowns of genetic traits.... I've read it once and need to revisit... it's Ā Ā Ā Ā Ā Ā Ā radd nominated top read
From yours I'm reading that you might do better with just a little T3 added to T4, eat liver for Vit A or supplement, monitor Vit D chances are you'll need a higher dose than normal, sub lingual B12 is likely better absorbed, also add a good B complex, maybe even a little extra methyl folate... probably things that you already have covered š¤ Add Vit C to help protect tendons etc, could add collagen too?
My DAO gene is 'normal' but acting dirty hence the histamine issues š
Lifestyle/ diet/ stress/ deficiencies.... can all turn your genes dirty
I'm also supposedly dairy tolerant but haven't been since starting levo
my daughter hid the fact she had severe scoliosis from us, during lockdown we found out we well I started the Wonky Donkey nickname, she had her operation end of November last year 10 hours it took , she came out 3 1/2 inches taller so put a smile on her face eventually š¤
So sorry this didn't show up as an alert and have just seen your reply. Really sorry to hear about your daughter and I'm thrilled that she is pleased she is now 3 1/2" taller - bless her! I was diagnosed with scoliosis 10 years ago and have reduced in height by 3 1'2" but still managing to come in as a respectable 5'5". So much I didn't know and have learnt too late - do ensure she reads up on bone health and what is needed. You certainly gave me a cracking good laugh this morning and thank you for thatš
Glad you had a good laugh, a little boost to our serotonin and dopamine is always a good thing. When she had her first scan I was horrified, the Mum guilt kicked in , how could I not know. She has over 92% curvature, and ribs down right side were so twisted she was getting a hump back. They did the spine , her scar runs from base of neck to sacrum, has some impressive metal work but didn't do ribs, hoping they eventually correct themselves. Her diet is awful, but when I saw the scan I thought no wonder she only picked everything was so cramped up wouldn't have had room for a decent meal. Still having issues but we are working on it š
I'm sure you are a fantastic Mum so stop blaming yourself - the past 3 or 4 years have done untold damage to so many people in so many different ways. Even Princess Eugenie had a major op for scoliosis and don't tell me that she wasn't getting the very best of treatment that money could buy or didn't have the love of her parents. Will pm you soonest as off loading can certainly help all of us in getting things into perspectiveš¤
Couldn't eat Liver , not for a big clock, I take Vit D 8000iu a day plus K2mk7, I try to SI B12 3x a week, minimum 2x. I take a good B complex and methylfolate 600ug daily, Selenium with vits A, C and E, Magnesium glycinate , just ordered another BH testkit to check levels. What's DOA? I must have lost that one š
Me either I take a drop of Vit A every couple of days
DAO is the gene that deals with histamine enzyme production
Sounds like you have most things covered š¤
I added in Glutathione to help reduce inflammation and aid antioxidants and some CoQ10 which you might like as it helps with cholesterol, heart and brain function š
I found it, seems I am wild type CC, but have increased inflammatory response, impaired ability to breakdown histamines and histamine intolerance. so from what I can make out I need to add Omega 3, increase anti oxidants, add collagen ? Need recommendations anyone?
Collagen was suggested for protecting tendons and ligaments so would need to be the right form, I don't really do vigorous exercise so I'm actually taking bone health collagen..... glutathione is my antioxidant though I add some quercetin during tree pollen season and I might remember to take a couple of Omega 3 capsules a couple of times a week š§
yeah need to find which are worth the money and most importantly effective, whole new obsession to get my head spinning again, , so just need to decide/find collagen type 1 or 2 or 3 glutathione ooh spinning head
I ordered some vit A drops, some multi collagen powder, I quite like smoothies so can add it to them, with my cold milled flax seeds, and Zinc which have a smaller amount of Copper, all bio available forms . it's a start anyway š don't think I'll be running any marathons anytime soon but just getting up and down the stairs without me or the stairs creaking will do for now š¤š
I donāt know if you follow Lifecode GX but thereās some very informative seminars instagram lived etc which may breakdown and explain some of the more complex results you haveā¦ being a nerd I attend these sometimes as Iām just interested full stop in nutrigenomics as itās an area we can help ourselves by simply changing diet and lifestyle habits to ward off areas and help others that are problematic.
The Beta carotene to the much required Vit A retinol is quite a common occurrence with many having this snip if you canāt get from food you will need to supplementā¦ thereās many vegetarians going around thinking they get enough vitamin A but we need to be able to convert the beta carotene in first instance and itās surprising how many donāt through this genetic disposition.
Likewise vitamin D many need bigger doses to get it through our wonky system.
Methylation usually requires methyl B vitamins as you wonāt convert the synthetic types as well.
I remember possibly 3yrs ago listening in to Liz Earle and Lifecode GX and they went through some of the basics, and right supplements to get desired results.
I think itās great you have that information and now can sieve through and make some easy changes which may help you going forward.
With Blue Horizon tests donāt they provide a person to go through these to explain?
Whether or not youāve got or getting symptoms which lead you to doing these tests to find your wonky snips or not (we all have them), genetic tests whether these are taken at birth or 90 will be the sameā¦ there is like someone mentioned areas where some things can get a bit muddy. Just because you have these snips on geneās doesnāt mean theyāre switched on. Thereās a higher chance of problems if areas arenāt addressed but these tests donāt show if thereās a problem just likelihood of getting due to your genetic makeup. Many factors switch genes on.
Not bored because I am selfishly thrilled to have the gene sequences laid out to put into 23andMe & happily follow you right down the crazy trail. I was all OMG gene sequences listed! More? There's more!
Speaking of which -
'FUT2 B12, poor absorption , have reduced ability to bind and transport vit D, low receptivity to vit d and increased need'
I did this test also. Eeyore and CoeliacMum have already offered great responses. However, I would emphasise just because you have these SNPās it is not a given they arenāt working well as other genes will be compensating. The SNPās just raise the possibilities of impaired performance, and with ongoing symptoms can offer some reason.
Genomics is starting to become a part of routine clinical care and your worries are why many companies wonāt supply genetic results without support/counselling, but the way to tackle results is to consider how fortunate that you can now use targeted treatment to increase better performance.
Your mutations are not unusual. For instance FUT2 polymorphisms are common and lack of the FUT2 enzyme alters the gut microbiome leading to infections, leaky gut, etc. The blurb will state the negative influences on Vit B12 absorption but the truth is the accompanying chronic inflammation (common in Hashi sufferers - see TNF-alpha below) will discourage good absorption of all nutrients and thyroid meds. Hence many members may require ongoing iron supplementation forever and/or huge T4/T3 doses.
It seems hypoās have evolved to carry these traits or maybe itās vice versa, the chicken and egg scenario. The common deficiencies on the forum are Vit B12, folate, Vit D and iron, that once addressed often require ongoing dosing to maintain levels. This is why multivitamin supplements are discouraged as may not contain enough. I manage well on a multivit but have to take additional Vit D (in spite of being a sun-lover and not having the common VDR SNPās there is obviously some impairment(s) along the line somewhere).
My friends show surprise that my son and myself (both Hashi sufferers) required bicep tendon reattachment operations but it is simply because we both play sports and are genetically predisposed to tendon injury. My son also had a finger tendon reattached. I was recommended Neprinol AFD by Arthur Andrew. It is a fibrin defence and certainly helped with post-op healing but boy, it is expensive to maintain ongoing supplementing, although apparently top sports players take it like smarties.
Because connective tissue supposedly takes longer to repair than muscle after intense exercise, longer duration of rest days are recommended. I donāt do much āintenseā exercise anymore š. All the collagens are involved in the various manufacture of tendons/ligaments but hydrolyzed type 1 collagen + Vit C is recommended for tendon repair. I have previously used Bare Biology Skinful (donāt be put off by the name, type 1 is also required for nails, skin, etc, and this brand is pure with no hidden nasties).
Your āgene-cardsā are good, havenāt seen those before. I agree the LifeCode GX webinars are excellent for credible info. They are presented to practitioners but there is nothing to stop anyone from watching/learning, and the sessions remain on the website so you donāt have to attend the initial āliveā one. Scroll down the page for āSnapshotsā and register for free access ... lifecodegx.com/training
Also the MFTHR king, Ben Lynchās website has interesting reads. His supplement line Seeking Health is expensive but again tailored very specifically towards common traits, so ideal for us āwonkyā Hashi sufferers. His book āDirty Genesā gives great incite into the commonly impaired MTHFR, COMT, DAO, PEMT, and others.
I wasnāt going to comment on your actual results but canāt help myself š. Unfortuatunately a new HU limit on reply-characters forces me to add an additional response š.
What are you medicating? Iām not sure you need to add T3 without trying to improve Levothyroxineās performance first. Remember if you add something you donāt actually need, you will be adding to the (toxic) burden which isnāt always easily metabolised/excreted. This is where your genetic knowledge now becomes useful.
Your DIO2 conversion is good and DIO1 conversion could easily be adequate but you risk reduced RT3 clearance which could negatively influence further FT4-FT3 conversion. Therefore, it is super important to achieve the correct T4:T3 ratio, eg enough T4 for your good conversion (especially for DIO1 T3 brain activity) but not too much T4 excess that risks higher RT3 levels that you find difficult to further metabolise. Also excess T4 (as in unusable by your body) can be associated with anxiety and depression that you appear predisposed too, and that is also mentioned on your forum bio.
There are supplements you can take to help shift stagnant hormones such as DIM and Calcium D-Glucarate that encourages better detox of oestrogen and toxins from the liver (nothing to do with calcium), but personally I would first do the simple everyday things to improve RT3 detox - exercise, healthy diet, adequate water, toxin/alcohol-free few months or certainly weekdays, good sleep, liver supports such as lemon, sort out any gut issues, massage/body brushing, saunas, etc. Get your lymphatic system working and hormones shifting properly around your body.
Assuming you have addressed all nutrient deficiencies, this protocol will also help clearance of cortisol and oestrogen, and raise good neurotransmitter levels to help ward off anxiety/depression. It will also help reverse other unwanted issues such as a little unknown insulin resistance and/or elevated CRP or other inflammatory markers, etc. Then if after say 6-12 months you still felt symptomatic, only then I would consider adding some other supplements and/or T3.
When utilised correctly FT3 not only turns on the ATP processes (metabolic/energy) but is found in large amounts in the limbic system of the brain regulating our emotions with the action of serotonin, GABA, noradrenaline, etc. The brain has more T3 receptors than anywhere else on the body and T3 can be thought of as a neurotransmitter itself.
The genetic reduced sensitivity to TSH is common and I think contributes to our 'TSH:thyroid hormone med disconnect' evidenced by labs. Once we are medicating it becomes somewhat irrelevant anyway (except when trying to obtain a T4 prescription!)
TNFĪ± is pro-inflammatory and an immune regulator. If is commonly elevated in Hashimotos and if left becomes chronic and can drive further inflammatory conditions such as RA, Crohns, MS, etc. It can also down-regulate helpful parts of the immune system and often why people may find it hard to fight off infections, colds, flu, UTIās, etc. It is why we aim to reduce thyroid antibodies that drive this unwanted inflammatory response as a consequence of the auto-immune attack.
I have used Kapparest by Biotics Research which targets the cytokines involved in this exact autoimmune response and actually reduced my thyroid antibodies and all aches and pains. Unfortunately Kapparest is expensive for ongoing maintenance but curcumin/turmeric and drinking green tea is a more sustainable alternative. .. shop.bioticsresearch.com/pr...
TSHR receptor AA rs 179247 linked to presence of TSHR antibodies - many Hashi sufferers have (had) unknown TRAbās of the blocking kind, hence my own thyroid gland atrophy.
Remember your results are most likely representative of many/most of the forum and why we are here in our 'wonky' states to learn how to manipulate our gene impairments (epigenetics), whether itās cleaning up lifestyle/diet, addressing deficiencies, adding a supplement and/or titivating meds.
SI B12, B complex , methyl folate Vit D and vit K2 mk7 selenium with vits A, C,E. Tried to get my vits minerals up to scratch before doing anything else, then GP started trying to push statins, metformin, antihypertensives so did my own BH tests to see where I was upto. , Initially May 2022 GP results raised TSH 5.3, FT4 19.8 but lab refused FT3, so did BH TSH 8.9, FT4 17.2 FT3 .11. Been supplementing and hoping to improve things, November 22 CRP 6.60 <5, ferritin 132 13- 150, Cortisol 552 166-507. TSH 0.51, FT4 22.1 12-22, FT3 3.88 3.1-6.8. Vit D 65 ,
Started T3 in May , after 8 weeks did bloods (July) TSH 0.01 , FT4, 22.5, FT3 5.51,
HBA1c went up from 50 to 54, lipids before starting Total 5.6, after 4.49 HDL 1.5, after 1.22, Trigly 2 after 1.97, LDL 3.2, after 2.37, Chol/HDL ratio 3.7, after 3.68 Non HDL 4.1, after 3.27 . So Have ordered another kit from BH, full tests again to check what's what. CRP has been creeping up for a while in July it was 8.22ferritin 21, but at least cortisol had gone back down to 357 from 552.
Had began to feel a bit better, more positive. Usual little ups and downs , sleep had improved but lots of angst and stressful stuff recently and feel less positive, bit ropey. Just got some more supplements, Vit A drops, Zinc , has a little copper added. Calcium Multi collagen powder. I appreciate all the information and advice but at the moment my brain is so foggy , a real pea souper, still at times struggling to remember words mid sentence. So some of it will have to wait till I have more spoons to cope with processing it. I can't really get much exercise done at all at the moment, stiff, painful joints and crippled with what I think is bursitis (left heel) GP always says tendonitis but doesn't offer any treatment. Used to run and have my own allotment . My diet is a bit restricted, think it's a ND , lots of stuff I just can't face eating even the idea makes me ill. Don't eat ready meals, don't do burgers or sausages, no cooked meats processed stuff, do like veg and fruit, like cheese and fish thing Idea of a massage horrifies me, but might have to go there eventually , would need drugging first I think š¤. I do probably have a problem in the neurotransmitter department, have ADHD/ASD so dopamine and norepinephrine lacking. Only became insulin resistant /type 2 after taking an anti depressant that caused insulin resistance. I am grateful for the information but it's going to take me a while to process it.
Oh gosh, I just loooooove massageš, but you certainly donāt have to have it! But exercise is important, even if only a stroll around the park, as will target everything you are trying to repair.
It sounds like you are dealing with the nutrient deficiencies and I would highly recommend you try the Kapparest to reduce said inflammation/aches & pains that sound debilitating. I was hugely surprised with the positive response I had with it, and why Iām such a fan of curcumin.
I'll have to see how the pennies are before committing but sounds great. i did get some ACV , organic with the mother which has circumin, turmeric and chilli, bit of a shock when first taste it but wakes up the taste buds , need to be consistent with it though. Wish I could face a massage, real deep to get everything flowing but I don't know it's a sensory thing/fear it will have to be on the back burner for now. It's been since January 22 now that my right knee and left heel have been buggered, got sent to couple of outpatient clinics, useless, told knee it's your age it's arthritis the heel , tired to tell me it was plantar fasciitis , buy good shoes and use insoles. It's not have had it in past and this is not it. My knee , a patient tried to knee cap me back in the early 90's had a couple of ops, several injections but it's wrecked. Think my Mum, 92 this year, has shared a lot of genetic blibs with us, has both forms of arthritis, has always had problems with blood, now has essential thrombocytopenia , both her and her mother succumbed to dementia, I often wonder if they had PA but didn't get help. Worried what I might have passed to my kids, all ADHD, or ASD or both and the youngest is genetically enhanced so I am trying to get myself to a point where I can advocate not just for me but for them too
OOh do waffle some times. Anywho trying to just get on top of it all, not made any easier when 1, your a woman, 2, your post menopause, therefore no longer relevant, 3, hysterical because 1 and 2. I honestly don't know how there aren't more murders. I am scared that at some point I won't be able to manage things myself and then will be pardon the french "F***ed". I have put in SAR's to GP's , Uni and Occupational health at Uni. To try and find out what exactly is going on, for instance back in 1995 I had what I was told was a complete thyroidectomy, never told any blood results etc but it was apparently full of nodules, Gp records say lobectomy? Never had a scan and don't know wether Parathyroids are damaged or gone. Lots of entries on MY GP that bare no resemblance to what I remember , they don't even spell tendonitis correctly. Sorry really am waffling, but guess a lot of us are in the same boat
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