Some Help with Vits and Mins Please

[FancyPants54]

Hello

It's a constant struggle for me to raise and hold my ferritin, folate and B12 levels. They fight to drop lower all the time.

I eat as much recommended iron rich foods as I can (but I just can't eat as much of this as I did because I don't have the energy to cook breakfast anymore which is where I got my black pudding in), but still need to supplement.

I am currently using Igennus Iron Bisglycinate at 20mg once a day and also their Super B Complex. I use an Australian B12 transdermal oil that Paul Robinson recommended but it's not good enough for me. Supposed to be able to replace injections with it (for some) but I haven't found it to be up to the task for me.

My endo. has recommended a couple of supplements for iron and B12, but I have a lot more faith in SeasideSusie and her friends for vitamin advice.

I really need to have higher ferritin and folate and iron in general.

Last test was just before Christmas.

Results were:

Ferritin 63.3 (10-200)

Folate 6 (3-20)

Iron 14.2 (11-30)

Serum B12 412 (180-900)

[GlowCoach Administrator]

Regarding folate. Personally I didn't notice any difference in how I felt until I got up to 1000mcgs. There is only 400mcgs in most B complexes. I bought some Jarrows 400mcg methylfolate and very slowly over weeks and months added small amounts. If you feel it's too much just pause for a day and then restart the next day. You will be able to tell if the dose is right for you by how you feel.

Some people need more folate especially if they have the MTHFR genes which I do.

[FancyPants54 in reply to GlowCoach]

What did too much folate feel like for you? What did too little feel like?

[GlowCoach Administrator in reply to FancyPants54]

Too little and I felt no difference. I was also very low on FT3 with multiple associated symptoms so its hard to pick out exactly whats what!

Too much and feeling on edge would be the best way to describe it. The feeling doesn't last though if you skip a dose next day and go very slowly and gradually.

I now need 1800mcgs a day to feel well and my blood results are at top of range where most people need them.

[SeasideSusie Remembering]

FancyPants54

The first thing I would do is swap the Igennus Super B for another brand. This is because Igennus contains Vit C and it's said that B12 and Vit C should be taken 2 hours apart because Vit C affects absorption of B12. Some people do OK with Igennus, some don't, so as you're having a problem then I'd try a different one. Two suggestions for brands

Thorne Basic B - which is sometimes difficult to get as it's imported and price can go quite high

Vitablossom Liposomal B Complex - also branded as Yipmai at Amazon but is the exact same supplement. This is almost identical in doses of the different ingredients as Thorne and works out cheaper even when Thorne is on offer at a good price.

hempoutlet.co.uk/vitablosso...

amazon.co.uk/Yipmai-Liposom...

If you want to take a separate folic acid for a while to boost your folate level, then this methylfolate supplement is a good one, only 400mcg but you can take more than one capsule if you wish (it says folic acid but it's definitely methylfolate, I'm taking this at the moment as my folate level plummeted):

amazon.co.uk/Vegavero%C2%AE...?

Ferritin is notoriously difficult to raise and your Igennus supplement is a good one. It contains Vit C which is needed for the iron to be absorbed, however there is only 100mg Vit C so it might be worth taking more Vit C with it. Also as long as it doesn't upset your stomach take without food for better absorption. It's said that iron is better absorbed if taken alternate days rather than daily. If you want a gentle iron without any excipients have a look at Terra Nova Easy Iron Complex

amazon.co.uk/Terranova-Easy...?

[A2C3 in reply to SeasideSusie]

Can you take this iron supplement if it’s only ferritin that you need to raise not other iron markers?

[SeasideSusie Remembering in reply to A2C3]

A2C2

You should always do an iron panel and full blood count before taking an iron supplement. If you already have good serum iron and saturation percentage levels then taking iron would take them too high and you'd risk toxicity.

[A2C3 in reply to SeasideSusie]

It was based on these, I wanted to increase ferritin and folate after advice from slow dragon a while back. Sorry to jump on this post!

Results

[SeasideSusie Remembering in reply to A2C3]

A2C3

Optimal iron panel levels according to rt3-adrenals.org/Iron_test_... are:

Serum iron: 55 to 70% of the range, higher end for men - yours is 22.4 (10-30) = 62% through range

Saturation: optimal is 35 to 45%, higher end for men - yours is 38%

Both of these results do not suggest that you need iron tablets. You should try and raise your ferritin level through diet, eg by eating liver regularly, maximum 200g per week due to it's high Vit A content, also liver pate, black pudding, and including lots of iron rich foods in your diet

bda.uk.com/resource/iron-ri...

everydayhealth.com/pictures...

[A2C3 in reply to SeasideSusie]

Lovely thank you very much I will work on my diet x

[A2C3 in reply to SeasideSusie]

Do you know how much liver pate a week? Like does it have a limit like the 200g liver amount?

[SeasideSusie Remembering in reply to A2C3]

You'd make allowance for the other ingredients in the pate so 100g pate wouldn't contain 100g liver, but I don't know exactly how much liver as I don't make or buy pate.

[FancyPants54 in reply to SeasideSusie]

I've not heard about iron being better absorbed if taken alternate days. But that way I'm sure I'd forget to take it again. I now have it set on a watch alarm and so far haven't forgotten it since before Christmas. I will try to take it with orange juice. It doesn't upset my stomach.

I have had Thorn Bs in the past and came up against the "unavailable" issue, which is why I switched to Igennus. I will try the Vitablossom. Thank you.

I will also give the folate recommendation a try.

Oh, and I forgot, my Endo. want's me to take an omega fish oil for my cholesterol, which is in range but the good/bad (all nonsense in my view) is the wrong way around and triglycerides are high. Do you have any experience of those to recommend a brand?

Thank you Susie. Your vitamin and mineral knowledge is so helpful to so many.

[SeasideSusie Remembering in reply to FancyPants54]

FP54

If you can find a way of remembering to take iron alternate days then I would give it a try. There is an article in The Lancet which shows a study that says

In iron-depleted women, providing iron supplements daily as divided doses increases serum hepcidin and reduces iron absorption. Providing iron supplements on alternate days and in single doses optimises iron absorption and might be a preferable dosing regimen. These findings should be confirmed in iron-deficient anaemic patients.

thelancet.com/article/S2352....

This is the fish oil supplement I have

amazon.co.uk/Essential-Abso...?

I've not used another brand so can't compare and I really can't remember what drew me to that particular one.

[FancyPants54 in reply to SeasideSusie]

I will give the alternate day thing a whirl. My alarm just went off for it at 7pm. I'll resist. I need to see if I can set an alternate day alarm.

Thank you for the fish oil link. I'll try them. I know it's a good brand and people in the comments say it doesn't repeat on them. Do you take them with food or on their own?

[SeasideSusie Remembering in reply to FancyPants54]

With food

[SlowDragon Administrator]

looking at your very helpful profile info

Last thyroid results show you were still under medicated by some way

Have you retested since increasing levothyroxine to 75mcg daily

Which brand of levothyroxine and which brand of T3 are you taking

Are you on strictly gluten free diet and dairy free

[FancyPants54 in reply to SlowDragon]

My profile is not fully up to date. I have switched to Armour, made the switch just before Christmas and did the switch over a period of time so I'm waiting before testing can be done. I had been on a lot more Levo and T3 in the recent past and never felt well, hence dropping back on the T3 and raising the T4 and now doing the switch to NDT.

I am not and will not be going gluten or dairy free. I tried it once for over a miserable year, no benefits and it was a horrible existence.

[shaws]

I have pernicious anaemia and it is 'usual' to have regular B12 injections.

I used to get 'a jab every 3 months' but I now get a monthly injection.

GP has said I can have as many jabs as I think I need.

p.s. my Mother had Pernicious Anaemia and died due to a complication caused by her GP telling her she no longer needed B12 injections. Both myself and sister thought that was 'good' but it became the worst decision especially 'end of life care'.