Test results advice: Good evening. I had my TFT... - Thyroid UK

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Test results advice

Foggy73 profile image
36 Replies

Good evening.

I had my TFT results today and I’m surprised considering how bad I feel (terrible brain fog, can’t concentrate, can’t retain information, sluggish, fatigue to the point I will fall asleep in the afternoon, weight gain). I currently take Levothyroxine 125 mcgs and Liothyronine 10 mcgs. I had my blood test at 9.25am and did not take any medication before, which surprises me why the results are so high (I take my medication at 6.10 am each day). My results are:

Serum free T4 = 17.3 pmol/L (Range 11.1 - 22.0)

Serum free Triiodothyronine level = 5.0 pmol/L (Range 3.1 - 6.8)

Serum TSH level = 0.01 mu/L (Range 0.27 - 4.2)

I’m worried as to why the results for T3 and T4 look so good and TSH is below normal as I feel so bad.

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36 Replies
Buddy195 profile image
Buddy195Administrator

Foggy73, your TSH is suppressed because you are taking Liothyronine, so is nothing to worry about. There is definitely room for an increase in medication. You should only be concerned if your FT3/ FT4 is over range. Did you test key thyroid vitamins? Having folate, ferritin, Vit D and B12 optimal is so important, but please don’t supplement without testing first.

Foggy73 profile image
Foggy73 in reply to Buddy195

Thank you for your response. My GP has sent me a message to repeat TFT in 3 months time. I’m concerned that he will just say that the results are within normal range (like he normally says) and I have to battle ti get any increases. I didn’t hdd as if my vitamins find this time. I think I will try and speak to my GP about my symptoms and see if he will let me increase something before my next blood test.

DippyDame profile image
DippyDame

Your Frees are not particularly good....you are undermedicated.

TSH is not a reliable marker once replacement hormone is added

TSH reflects the overall level of hormones.in the blood...not the level of each individual hormone

Fortuntely you have labs for both Frees which is important.

FT4 is 56.88% through the ref range

FT3 is 51.35% ditto

We aim to have both Frees roughly approaching 75% through respective ref ranges.....yours are low.

Your dose 125mcg levo with 10mcg T3 is not relieving your symptoms so an increase is required

You could add an extra 25mcg levo which may be enough to relieve symptoms.....

New dose 150mcg plus 10mcg T3.

Maintain that dose for 6 weeks then retest. The results will point the way forward.

OR you could add another 5mcg T3.

It may be a case of trial and error to find which suitscyou best

Essential that you optimise vit D, vit B12, folate and ferritin to support thyroid function

You will not be overdosed unless your FT3 goes over range

T3 is the active thyroid hormone. For good health it must saturate almost every cell in the body and be available in an adequate and constant supply.

With correct medication your symptoms should resolve.

Good luck!

Foggy73 profile image
Foggy73 in reply to DippyDame

Thank you for your reply. I will speak to my GP s as no see if I can get an increase. However, I always have a battle with my results as as long as they are in range the GP’s are happy with them! I think my argument will be that there is a range for a reason, as I may feel better at the top end for T3 and T4 and some people may feel well lower end.

DippyDame profile image
DippyDame in reply to Foggy73

The important point is that your result should not only be in range but essentially that it sits on the exact point within the range where you feel well.

Your symptoms must also be considered.

The following should provide an arguement for an increase

pmj.bmj.com/content/94/1117...

It states the following main messages

Health is a relative and not an absolute state.

The reference interval acts as a comparator for the patient’s blood result. It is not the arbiter of whether disease is present or not.

Natural fluctuations in a blood result can occur.

Comparison of a result against the reference interval should be informed by the clinical suspicion made beforehand.

As for medics wrongly clinging to TSH as a guide to dosing this may help...

thyroidpatients.ca/2021/07/...

I suggest you make a list of all the points you wish to make before you talk with your GP.....it will help focus the mind.

Charlie-Farley profile image
Charlie-Farley in reply to Foggy73

Hi Foggy73

The range IS there for a reason - on point! I had to explain this to a few GPs at my local surgery. They would say you are ‘in range’ and I would say but symptomatic and there is room in the range to accommodate another dose increase. I’ve written by bio as a bit of a road map for others and posted my results spreadsheet, my reports that I submitted to GP and factors that I think contributed to me getting on a full replacement dose. Hard copy being a significant one. 😉Clicking on my face will take you to my profile and all the posts if you want a look

😊👍

SlowDragon profile image
SlowDragonAdministrator

I currently take Levothyroxine 125 mcgs and Liothyronine 10 mcgs. I had my blood test at 9.25am and did not take any medication before

Last dose levothyroxine should be 24 hours before test

Do you normally split your T3 as two doses of 5mcg approx 10-12 hours apart?

Even if you don’t do so normally, on day before test recommended to split so that last 5mcg dose T3 is approx 8-12 hours before test

When were vitamin D, folate, ferritin and B12 levels last tested

What vitamin supplements are you currently taking

Foggy73 profile image
Foggy73 in reply to SlowDragon

I had Vitamin D, folate, ferritin and B12 in April and all in range.

I only take Adcal (Vitamin D and Calcium) prescribed.

Why is it best to split the Liothyronine dose before a blood test and have half 8 - 12 hours before the test rathed than 24 hours before like Levothyroxine?

SlowDragon profile image
SlowDragonAdministrator in reply to Foggy73

Why is it best to split the Liothyronine dose before a blood test and have half 8 - 12 hours before the test rathed than 24 hours before like Levothyroxine

because T3 is short lived in blood and you get false low Ft3 result if last dose is longer than 12 hours before test

Vitamin D, folate, ferritin and B12 in April

Please add actual results and ranges

Wockhardt only make 25mcg tablets

Foggy73 profile image
Foggy73 in reply to SlowDragon

The 100 mags Levothyroxine is by Aristo.

B12/Folate level

Serum vitamin B12 level = 716 bg/L (range 197.0 - 771.0)

Serum folate level = 11.7 ug/L (range 1.9 - 25.0)

Magnesium, Serum

Serum magnesium level = 0.97 mmol/L (range 0.66 - 1.07)

Serum magnesium adjusted level = 0.93 mmol/L (range 0.66 - 1.07)

Serum ferritin level

Serum ferritin level = 61 ug/L (range 13.0 - 150.0)

Serum C reactive protein level = < 1 mg/L (range 0.0 - 5.0)

Vit D, 25OH, TOTAL, SERUM

Serum total 25-hydroxy vitamin D level = 77 mmol/L (range 50.0 - 120.0)

SlowDragon profile image
SlowDragonAdministrator in reply to Foggy73

what vitamin supplements are you currently taking

Folate, ferritin and vitamin D a little low

Aristo is lactose free levothyroxine

Some people don’t get on with it

healthunlocked.com/search/p...

Foggy73 profile image
Foggy73 in reply to SlowDragon

I only take Adcal (Vitamin D and Calcium).

How does lactose free make it worse?

SlowDragon profile image
SlowDragonAdministrator in reply to Foggy73

Different people find different brands levothyroxine give different results

what suits one person, doesn’t suit another

Different brands are not bio equivalent…..50mcg in one brand will give different blood test results to 50mcg in a different brand

Government guidelines for GP if you find it difficult/impossible to change brands 

gov.uk/drug-safety-update/l...

If a patient reports persistent symptoms when switching between different levothyroxine tablet formulations, consider consistently prescribing a specific product known to be well tolerated by the patient. 

If symptoms or poor control of thyroid function persist (despite adhering to a specific product), consider prescribing levothyroxine in an oral solution formulation.

academic.oup.com/jcem/artic...

Physicians should: 1) alert patients that preparations may be switched at the pharmacy; 2) encourage patients to ask to remain on the same preparation at every pharmacy refill; and 3) make sure patients understand the need to have their TSH retested and the potential for dosing readjusted every time their LT4 preparation is switched (18).

Levothyroxine is an extremely fussy hormone and should always be taken on an empty stomach and then nothing apart from water for at least an hour after

Many people take Levothyroxine soon after waking, but it may be more convenient and perhaps more effective taken at bedtime

verywellhealth.com/best-tim...

markvanderpump.co.uk/blog/p...

No other medication or supplements at same as Levothyroxine, leave at least 2 hour gap.

Some like iron, calcium, magnesium, HRT, omeprazole or vitamin D should be four hours away

(Time gap doesn't apply to Vitamin D mouth spray)

If you normally take levothyroxine at bedtime/in night ...adjust timings as follows prior to blood test

Similarly if normally splitting your levothyroxine, take whole daily dose 24 hours before test 

If testing Monday morning, delay Saturday evening dose levothyroxine until Sunday morning. Delay Sunday evening dose levothyroxine until after blood test on Monday morning. Take Monday evening dose levothyroxine as per normal

Foggy73 profile image
Foggy73 in reply to SlowDragon

Tjank

You for this. Can I still take my Liothyronine at the same time as Levothyroxine? I take them together first thing in the morning. I don’t take the Adcal until at least 4 hours afterwards.

SlowDragon profile image
SlowDragonAdministrator in reply to Foggy73

Do you normally split your T3 as 2 x 5mcg ?

Day before test last full dose levothyroxine 24 hours before test

Splitting T3 as 2 x 5mcg …..last 5mcg 8-12 hours before test

Foggy73 profile image
Foggy73 in reply to SlowDragon

I normally take 125 mcg Levothyroxine and 10 mcg Liothyronine all at the same time early morning.

SlowDragon profile image
SlowDragonAdministrator in reply to Foggy73

but you must split the T3 day before test otherwise the Ft3 result is false low result…..as discussed in earlier replies above

Foggy73 profile image
Foggy73 in reply to SlowDragon

Ok. So my T3 blood result may actually be higher and ok then?

SlowDragon profile image
SlowDragonAdministrator in reply to Foggy73

yes….…..Ft3 perhaps 5.5-6.0

your Ft4 and Ft3 look pretty good

SlowDragon profile image
SlowDragonAdministrator

looking over previous posts

Can’t see any info as to wether you are on strictly gluten free diet or dairy free diet

Which brand of levothyroxine are you currently taking

Do you always get same brand

Foggy73 profile image
Foggy73 in reply to SlowDragon

No I’m not on a gluten free or dairy free diet.

The Levothyroxine I am taking is Wockhardt. I tend to get the same brand I think.

SlowDragon profile image
SlowDragonAdministrator in reply to Foggy73

Have you never tried gluten free or dairy free

High percentage of Hashimoto’s patients find gluten free and/or dairy free diet helps, often significantly or is absolutely essential

ALWAYS worth trying

Suggest you get coeliac blood test done first BEFORE considering cutting gluten out

approx 5% with Hashimoto's are coeliac, but over 80% find gluten free diet helps, sometimes significantly. Either due to direct gluten intolerance (no test available) or due to leaky gut and gluten causing molecular mimicry (see Amy Myers link) 

Changing to a strictly gluten free diet may help reduce symptoms, help gut heal and slowly lower TPO antibodies 

While still eating high gluten diet ask GP for coeliac blood test first or buy test online for under £20, just to rule it out first 

Assuming test is negative you can immediately go on strictly gluten free diet 

(If test is positive you will need to remain on high gluten diet until endoscopy, maximum 6 weeks wait officially) 

Trying gluten free diet for 3-6 months. If no noticeable improvement then reintroduce gluten and see if symptoms get worse

chriskresser.com/the-gluten...

amymyersmd.com/2018/04/3-re...

thyroidpharmacist.com/artic...

drknews.com/changing-your-d...

Non Coeliac Gluten sensitivity (NCGS) and autoimmune disease

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/296...

The predominance of Hashimoto thyroiditis represents an interesting finding, since it has been indirectly confirmed by an Italian study, showing that autoimmune thyroid disease is a risk factor for the evolution towards NCGS in a group of patients with minimal duodenal inflammation. On these bases, an autoimmune stigma in NCGS is strongly supported

nuclmed.gr/wp/wp-content/up...

In summary, whereas it is not yet clear whether a gluten free diet can prevent autoimmune diseases, it is worth mentioning that HT patients with or without CD benefit from a diet low in gluten as far as the progression and the potential disease complications are concerned

restartmed.com/hashimotos-g...

Despite the fact that 5-10% of patients have Celiac disease, in my experience and in the experience of many other physicians, at least 80% + of patients with Hashimoto's who go gluten-free notice a reduction in their symptoms almost immediately.

similarly……trying dairy free diet…..perhaps 6-12 months time

Foggy73 profile image
Foggy73 in reply to SlowDragon

I have been tested for celiac a few times and always negative. I honestly can’t face going gluten free. I have tried it before and hated it.

SlowDragon profile image
SlowDragonAdministrator in reply to Foggy73

well often gluten is cause of brain fog …crosses the blood brain barrier

There’s loads of gluten free alternatives these days

I found it took 9-12 months for brain fog to lift on strictly gluten free diet

Foggy73 profile image
Foggy73 in reply to SlowDragon

I will see what alternatives I like.

SlowDragon profile image
SlowDragonAdministrator in reply to Foggy73

best bread in my opinion…..Waitrose brown seeded sliced

Keep in freezer…defrost as necessary

Toast in separate GF toaster

Don’t share butter, cutting boards, jam etc

Read all labels carefully

There’s absolutely no point in being almost gluten free

Foggy73 profile image
Foggy73 in reply to SlowDragon

Thank you.

I have just spoke to my GP and he has told me to increase my Liothyronine from 10mcgs to 20mcgs. I’m now worried as my T3 result was 5.0 pmol/L (Range 3.1 - 6.8) after not taking it for 24 hours so will it push me over increasing it?

SlowDragon profile image
SlowDragonAdministrator in reply to Foggy73

Personally I would work on optimal vitamin levels and trying gluten free diet first

should only ever increase by 5mcg ….and likely better to split dose

3 x 5mcg T3 spread through the day

5mcg waking, 5mcg mid afternoon and 5mcg bedtime

Foggy73 profile image
Foggy73 in reply to SlowDragon

Great advice. I was going to only increase to 15mcgs anyway and split it up to 3 x a day.

What vitamins should I get and dosage?

Foggy73 profile image
Foggy73 in reply to SlowDragon

what vitamins and dosage do I need?

SlowDragon profile image
SlowDragonAdministrator in reply to Foggy73

only add one supplement at a time and then wait at least 10-14 days to assess before adding another

To improve folate and all B vitamins

supplementing a good quality daily vitamin B complex, one with folate in (not folic acid) 

This can help keep all B vitamins in balance

Difference between folate and folic acid 

chriskresser.com/folate-vs-...

Many Hashimoto’s patients have MTHFR gene variation and can have trouble processing folic acid.

thyroidpharmacist.com/artic...

B vitamins best taken after breakfast

Thorne Basic B recommended vitamin B complex that contains folate, but they are large capsules. (You can tip powder out if can’t swallow capsule) 

IMPORTANT......If you are taking vitamin B complex, or any supplements containing biotin, remember to stop these 7 days before ALL BLOOD TESTS , as biotin can falsely affect test results

endo.confex.com/endo/2016en...

endocrinenews.endocrine.org...

In week before blood test, when you stop vitamin B complex, you might want to consider taking a separate methyl folate supplement

vitamin D

Presumably you are prescribed vitamin D with calcium?

I imagine it’s a tiny dose of vitamin D?

GP should advise on self supplementing if over 50nmol, but under 75nmol (but they rarely do)

mm.wirral.nhs.uk/document_u...

But with Hashimoto’s, improving to around 80nmol or 100nmol by self supplementing may be better

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/218...

vitamindsociety.org/pdf/Vit...

Once you Improve level, very likely you will need on going maintenance dose to keep it there.

Test twice yearly via NHS private testing service when supplementing 

vitamindtest.org.uk

Vitamin D mouth spray by Better You is very effective as it avoids poor gut function.

There’s a version made that also contains vitamin K2 Mk7. 

One spray = 1000iu

Suggest you try one spray per day

amazon.co.uk/BetterYou-Dlux...

Another member recommended this one recently

Vitamin D with k2

amazon.co.uk/Strength-Subli...

It’s trial and error what dose we need, with thyroid issues we frequently need higher dose than average

Vitamin D and thyroid disease 

grassrootshealth.net/blog/t...

Vitamin D may prevent Autoimmune disease 

newscientist.com/article/23...

Web links about taking important cofactors - magnesium and Vit K2-MK7

Magnesium best taken in the afternoon or evening, but must be four hours away from levothyroxine

betterbones.com/bone-nutrit...

medicalnewstoday.com/articl...

livescience.com/61866-magne...

sciencedaily.com/releases/2...

Vitamin K2 mk7

betterbones.com/bone-nutrit...

healthline.com/nutrition/vi...

Other vitamin supplements you might consider add zinc and selenium

Ideally test levels first

Foggy73 profile image
Foggy73 in reply to SlowDragon

Wow, thank you so much.

SlowDragon profile image
SlowDragonAdministrator in reply to Foggy73

and get only one brand of levothyroxine…which ever brand suits you best

Foggy73 profile image
Foggy73 in reply to SlowDragon

I will ask my Pharmacist if I can have all my Levothyroxine the same brand. Thank you.

SlowDragon profile image
SlowDragonAdministrator in reply to Foggy73

The only brands that do 100mcg and 25mcg are

Mercury Pharma and Eltroxin - both made by Advanz

Or

Teva brand…..Teva upsets many people

Foggy73 profile image
Foggy73 in reply to SlowDragon

Thank you.

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