Cortisol results/DHEA, useful thoughts on action for adrenals?

[turquoisea7]

Hidden humanbean SlowDragon

Relentlesssearch I'm including you because I saw you had yours done recently and wondered if you had made any progress with action; humanbean I know you as the source for cortisol info given our past conversations, SlowDragon don't know if you have any input but have added you for reference anyway.

Results from Regenerus. Any useful thoughts please, on what action to take? What supplements do people use/recommend? [GP's 9am blood cortisol was 529 on 17th August with no reference range given].

I am 54, not sure how relevant that is to results/DHEA level; I understand low DHEA to be concomitant with hypo.

Cortisol 8.30am - 8.4nmol/l optimal 14-25 ref interval 7.0 - 30.0

Cortisol noon - 4.2nmol/l optimal 5 -10 ref interval 2.1 - 14.0

Cortisol 6.30pm - 1.3nmol/l optimal 2 - 5 ref interval 1.5 - 8.00 ** this reading 2 hours after split levo dose

Cortisol 10.30pm - 0.91nmol/l optimal 1 - 4 ref interval 0.33- 7.0

DHEA 25 pg/ml reference interval 106 - 300

Test Comments: diurnal cortisol pattern is consistent with evolving phase 2 HPA axis adrenal gland dysfunction.

DHEA levels typically decline with age and supplementation with DHEA may increase testosterone and/or estradiol levels.

[SlowDragon Administrator]

Can you add the image of the graph to show the curve

Eg

cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/0...

Low DHEA levels

naturalendocrinesolutions.c...

Personally I didn’t get on with DHEA ……but was probably prescribed too high a dose and left on it too long ….reading this article and it was a very long time ago

Think you are waiting for Medichecks results on vitamin levels?

Getting thyroid and vitamins optimal should help improve adrenal levels

Adrenals try to compensate for lack of thyroid hormones. It takes several months for adrenals to rest and recover after any dose change in levothyroxine

[turquoisea7 in reply to SlowDragon]

Hallo, thank you for replying; think this has attached the graph, not sure if it is enlargeable? If no good will have to take a photo tomorrow.

I don't necessarily want to start taking yet another supplement unless I know it's the right choice, but of course am willing to if needs be.

I read, good for raising cortisol: liquorice, and grapefruit; but grapefruit seems to be contra-indicated with levo, not certain how major that actually is?

My medichecks tests, bless you for asking - were spoiled - probably not mixed well enough with the biotin. I only got the iron result, not the whole panel, and no vit D, so will have to re-do them. I want a break from testing to take my Thorne B for a while before another stab-fest.

Good, it is comforting to know that with care, it will all rebalance. I have known I was running on not much but willpower for a long time. Thank you again so much for your time and kindness.

cortisol graph

[SlowDragon Administrator in reply to turquoisea7]

suggest you just get vitamin D test now

Just 4 drops of blood on a card

NHS very easy postal kit vitamin D test £29 via

vitamindtest.org.uk

Medichecks presumably sending new kit?

Retest in another 6-8 weeks

What was ferritin result?

[turquoisea7 in reply to SlowDragon]

Right I have just bought the Vit D test, thank you for that, and my hubby says thank you, that's cheaper than a holiday. I have been supplementing for 5 years and I was until recently outside a LOT, but maybe my poorly gut has not handled the supplement. Yes Medichecks sending new kits.

Ferritin when last done 13th Sept, 34.9 (10.0-291). This huge leap up (!!) from 33.1 on 17th May, was achieved through 25mg per day supplementation. At this rate it will take me the next couple of years to get the level near to recommended for hypos. I am a veggie. Without knowing binding capacity I don't know how big a dose I can afford to take, or should take.

I did get an Iron result out of the failed medichecks test, 22.4 (5.8-34.5), so not dire I think?

[SlowDragon Administrator in reply to turquoisea7]

Think you seriously need to consider changing your diet ….or consider private iron transfusion….approx £400 I think ….more info in a link below

Vegetarian diet is notoriously difficult to maintain good iron/ferritin without the added complications of Hashimoto’s

List of iron rich foods

dailyiron.net

Heme iron v non heme

hsph.harvard.edu/nutritions...

Links about iron and ferritin

An article that explains why Low ferritin and low thyroid levels are often linked 

preventmiscarriage.com/iron...

 

irondisorders.org/too-littl...

davidg170.sg-host.com/wp-co...

Great in-depth article on low ferritin 

oatext.com/iron-deficiency-...

drhedberg.com/ferritin-hypo...

This is interesting because I have noticed that many patients with Hashimoto’s disease and hypothyroidism, start to feel worse when their ferritin drops below 80 and usually there is hair loss when it drops below 50.

healthunlocked.com/thyroidu...

restartmed.com/hypothyroidi...

suggest you read the many, many posts and replies by humanbean on low iron/ferritin

Post discussing just how long it can take to raise low ferritin 

healthunlocked.com/thyroidu...

Never supplement iron without doing full iron panel test for anaemia first and retest 3-4 times a year if self supplementing. It’s possible to have low ferritin but high iron 

Medichecks iron panel test 

medichecks.com/products/iro...

Iron and thyroid link

healthunlocked.com/thyroidu...

Excellent article on iron and thyroid 

cambridge.org/core/journals...

Posts discussing why important to do full iron panel test

healthunlocked.com/thyroidu...

healthunlocked.com/thyroidu...

Here’s absolutely excellent reply by @humanbean

on iron and ferritin panel test results for another member 

healthunlocked.com/thyroidu...

Good explanations of iron 

theironclinic.com/iron-defi...

theironclinic.com/ironc/wp/...

Helpful info on iron infusion and supplements 

healthunlocked.com/thyroidu...

Looking for ferritin at least over 70 minimum

Nearer 100 would be better

[radd in reply to SlowDragon]

SD,

'consider private iron transfusion….approx £400 I think'

O/P's serum iron is 22.4 (5.8-34.5), so 57.84% through range.

Therefore, she couldn't have an iron transfusion without risk of iron overloading, and you really don't want free iron!

Ferritin are storage proteins and only a good guide when things are going right. Low is common in hypo.

[Hidden]

hey - sure here is what I know. I can see from your results that your morning one is awful (medical term 😂) your noon and afternoon are bad and your evening is poor.

Low DHEA has a lot to do with age, but Dr P’s book recommends supplementing DHEA if low.

Cortisol supplementation, I take:

Adrenavive II on waking: 150

Adrenavive III at 12pm: 300

Adrenavive II at 4pm: 150

If your results were mine I’d switch, and do 300 on waking, 150 at noon and 150 at 4pm. Some people need to take the capsules with food. I do NOT recommend dumping them out, the GI distress is horrendous.

Differences I’ve noticed after 10 days -

Much improved mood, better blood sugar control and weight loss, some GI distress. I notice when it wears off though and it makes me achey.

Hope they helps

[turquoisea7 in reply to Hidden]

Wow that was quick, and incredibly helpful, nothing like someone else's experience! Thank you SO much for this.

Adrenavive is made out of cows, though...I'm a veggie. I will have to have a serious think about that one. 🤔

I love your medical terms, easily understood. THANK YOU so very much for all this, I sincerely appreciate your time and input.

[Hidden in reply to turquoisea7]

You’re welcome 😊 what’s your circumstances atm? Are you having trouble tolerating thyroid meds? I am not able to tolerate mine at the moment, so that’s why I looked into cortisol.

Ah yes, being veggie will make it hard. Do you know your iron? Iron is a massive thing for optimising thyroid meds and I believe is harder to maintain when veggie.

I know there are adaptogens for veggies but I’ve always been warned not to use them as long term they can create issues xx

[turquoisea7 in reply to Hidden]

You'd have to be more specific in what you mean by not tolerating, I mean I'm taking them, but I have this horrible feeling of vibration at times all over, have done sine starting levo, and I suspect a lot of other people would have given up by now because it drives me insane. It is far less when I am calm, so obviously stress-related chemistry. I have a friend who was diagnosed hypo and had adrenal insufficiency many years ago, it just rang a bell and I remembered her mentioning it; she related it to stress and years undiagnosed. On reading about cortisol and talking to humanbean cortisol problems sounded very familiar - although I think her cortisol was high rather than low when she was rattling/vibrating. I have a head-rush when I stand up - not all the time, later in the day when I'm tired - but I have done for years and because my ferritin was at 4 at one point, and I thought it was that. It's become more obvious that the head-rush is due to my body (usually if I sit in the car after walking my dogs ) going WOAH, what standing UP now is it? Sorry, on strike, we just did exercise, that was too much. Clearly the speeding up of metabolism done by levo has taken my adrenals by surprise and they're struggling to keep up. I do feel that when the levo is patchy, i.e. not consistently circulating - I feel definite bumps and troughs with it - that I switch into running on adrenaline, much more so on the lower doses than now - and I understand that, in my very limited understanding that is - to be fairly widely reported with people who have been running undiagnosed for a longer time than is ideal. Anything familiar or of any use there? (I am going to turn screen off now so will reply tomorrow).

Oh and I did get an iron result out of the failed panel: 22.4 (5.8-34.5) so I don't think dire, it's my ferritin that's the issue.

[Hidden in reply to turquoisea7]

oh yes you really do have low cortisol symptoms! Have you considered using T3 too? I wish I’d done that from the beginning… I wouldn’t be in this situation if I had. Yes, ferritin is stored iron so that is basically iron. X

[Mazes]

Hi, I’ve had a quick read through and thought I’d just add some of my own experiences to see if it helps - I have no tests or research to back it up though!

Quick background - I was diagnosed with ME/CFS about 5 years ago, after many years of undertreated hashimotos.

Early on, I had my cortisol and DHEA tested and had high cortisol and low DHEA. I also had some lovely menopause symptoms. Both Dr Peatfield and Dr Myhill recommend pregnenolone which I started. I now take a very low dose daily - 25mg cream - and am feeling a whole heap better than I was.

Also, after a lot of thought, I started on Armour. I have been vegetarian for a long time and vegan for the past 6 years. It was a big decision to decide to have pig thyroid every day but it has made an enormous difference and was definitely the right thing to do. Though it means I’m no longer vegan.

And yes, keeping iron levels high is more difficult on a vegetarian or vegan diet but not impossible. I have slowly increased my iron levels over the past few years using diet and supplements and they are now all in very good range. I think it just needs more regular monitoring of what types of food you eat.

[turquoisea7 in reply to Mazes]

Thanks so much for all your time and for being kind enough to respond on the ethical dilemma. I am having to think hard about it all in terms of my basic quality of life (or lack thereof!)

Very good to hear some encouragement about iron/ferritin levels. I will just keep trying. Early on I didn't know about not drinking tea anywhere near it, not taking it with other supplements, so for years I've been supplementing and probably not absorbing much, Hopefully now I'm doing things as 'right' as I can. If you have any advice on what you do eat to help, I'd love to hear. Years ago when my ferritin was at 4 I was eating huge amounts of spinach, but raw, so probably not using any of that either. I have of course looked up the iron-rich veggie foods, but would appreciate any personal recommendations.

Is the pregnenolone for high or low cortisol, though, as yours was high? Is it appropriate for someone with low, do you know? Please could you send a link to the product you use so for me to read about?

thanks very much again for your input, I really appreciate it.

[Mazes in reply to turquoisea7]

ultimately I decided that it was more important to be well. But it still makes me uneasy sometimes.

I have a really limited diet due to IBS and after lots of experimenting eat mostly the same things every day, I can’t now remember which things are high in iron and which have other goodies in them. Here goes with the list…..cashews, almonds, hazelnuts, sunflower seeds, pumpkin seeds, sesame seeds, blackcurrants,redcurrants,raspberries and blackberries with coconut yoghurt for breakfast; carrots, cucumber, olives, lettuce, avocado with either chickpeas or lentil burgers and olive oil dressing for lunch; snack of blueberries and pistachios; stews and soups in the evening, all with lots of veg, beans and lentils along with some socca (chickpea flatbread); almond butter with oatcake and some coconut milk for supper.

I also take one solgar gentle iron along with vit c with my evening meal. I drink no tea or coffee, am gluten free and rarely have sugar.

[turquoisea7 in reply to Mazes]

Brilliant, that really helps. Yes much of that I am doing (I also have IBS), some of that is new to me, olives,blueberries; I am very big on pulses and a proper hairy lentil eater. I think a lot of my problem has historically been just not eating enough, due to being hypo and gaining weight, so have always restricted the amount I eat. Hopefully as things start to balance I should be able to eat more.

I'm coming to yours for lunch by the way....😆 can I just say, oatcake and humus with rocket mmmm....

[turquoisea7 in reply to Mazes]

In a brief google - it turns out camomile lowers(at least salivary) cortisol. I spent the whole day of the saliva test avoiding ordinary tea and drinking gallons of camomile tea. I always drink gallons of camomile tea. Best put a stop to that, then. Is nothing sacred?

[SarahJane1471 in reply to turquoisea7]

so your cortisol saliva test could be totally wrong 🤦‍♀️😬

[turquoisea7 in reply to SarahJane1471]

,Well, I do seem to have some adrenal insufficiency due to just being hypo, like many of us. But I think I can't rely on the results as being a very clear indicator of what's going on in my body, particularly as my blood cortisol is very normal 😀

[suzzytS1]

Ask to be tested for Addison's Disease(adrenal insufficiency), by an Endocrinologist. I have Addison's and am on hydrocortisone and fludrocortisone for life and feel fine. Hypothyroid since 1995.

[SlowDragon Administrator]

just seen your iron and ferritin results on this post

What was vitamin D test result

What vitamin supplements are you currently taking

What were most recent thyroid results

TSH, Ft4 and Ft3

Testing early morning and last dose levothyroxine 24 hours before test

Remind me…..Are you dairy free and/or gluten free

[turquoisea7 in reply to SlowDragon]

am duplicating here: I haven't added any new results, these are old ones.

I'm doing everything right. Vit levels creeping up. I'm on too low a dose of levo, have had to fight today to get bodyweight dose and utter idiot of a GP is desperate to lower it again. How these people get through medical school is beyond me. Have specialist appt privately booked for couple of weeks time. Hoping that may be useful. Otherwise, will no doubt be going free range after that, cannot stand idiot GP telling me I'm actually not ill and it's probably not my thyroid. SO angry.