Thyroid UK
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New cortisol results with Regenerus and very surprising!

First off I am very high, high, high and very high and within six weeks I appear to be low, low, low and high!

26th July - Regenerus

DHEA* 66.78 pg/ml 106.0-300.0 female

Cortisol Morning 14.31 nmol/L 5.1-40.2; optimal range: 18-35†

Cortisol Noon 4.02 nmol/L 2.1-15.7; optimal range: 6-12†

Cortisol Evening 3.39 nmol/L 1.5-8.0; optimal range: 2.0-5.0†

Cortisol Night 1.11 nmol/L 0.33-7.0; optimal range: 1.0-4.0†

13th June Medichecks

CORTISOL (SALIVA) WAKING *28.850 nmol/L 14.00 - 21.00

CORTISOL (SALIVA) 12:00 8.84 nmol/L 4.00 - 9.00

CORTISOL (SALIVA) 16:00 7.0 nmol/L 2.50 - 7.00

CORTISOL (SALIVA) BEFORE BED *4.84 nmol/L 0.80 - 4.50

Blood test at 9.00 a.m. 12th April - Medichecks

CORTISOL 481 nmol/l New reference range 6-10am: 133 to 537 nmol/L

Is it possible for cortisol to fluctuate like this or what?

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Are you taking any supplements?

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Not at the moment as I only got the Regenerus results this week and they had gone into the spam folder. The strange thing is that when I did the Medichecks test back in June, I was taking Ashwaganda, Holy Basil and Rhodiola drops. I was also taking cocodomol for my crushed vertebrae so leaving that latter off for the Regenerus test wasn't much fun. Its a mystery to me, I know there was a query over the night time testing by Medichecks, the reason why I chose Regenerus to do the latest one without any supplements etc.

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I know there was a query over the night time testing by Medichecks

What was the query?

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Apparently it was inaccurate and why the Regenerus testing was recommended. That is all I know from a U.K./U.S. Group. I will try and find out more.

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Speaking of supplements I was a bit disappointed reading this afternoon that a woman who has Hashimotos was avoiding Ashwagandha because it belongs to the nightshade family. I thought surely this can't be right but have just found this article naturalendocrinesolutions.c...

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According to this link :

rt3-adrenals.org/cortisol_t...

optimal cortisol results are as follows :

• Morning at the top of the range

• Noon approximately 75% of the range

• Evening close to 50% of the range

• Nighttime at the bottom of the range

---

Your Medichecks results :

CORTISOL (SALIVA) WAKING *28.850 nmol/L 14.00 - 21.00

CORTISOL (SALIVA) 12:00 8.84 nmol/L 4.00 - 9.00

CORTISOL (SALIVA) 16:00 7.0 nmol/L 2.50 - 7.00

CORTISOL (SALIVA) BEFORE BED *4.84 nmol/L 0.80 - 4.50

If we compare your results and the optimal results we get this :

Sample 1 : Optimal = 21 --- Yours = 28.85 = 137% of optimal

Sample 2 : Optimal = 7.75 --- Yours = 8.84 = 114% of optimal

Sample 3 : Optimal = 4.75 --- Yours = 7.0 = 147% of optimal

Sample 4 : Optimal = 0.8 --- Yours = 4.84 = 605% of optimal

Totals : Optimal = 34.3 (ref range : 25.34 - 41.5) --- Yours = 49.53 = 144% of optimal

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Your Regenerus results :

Cortisol Morning 14.31 nmol/L 5.1-40.2

Cortisol Noon 4.02 nmol/L 2.1-15.7

Cortisol Evening 3.39 nmol/L 1.5-8.0

Cortisol Night 1.11 nmol/L 0.33-7.0

I'm going to use the standard reference range rather than the optimal reference range. I don't know how the optimal reference range was determined.

Sample 1 : Optimal = 40.2 --- Yours = 14.31 = 36% of optimal

Sample 2 : Optimal = 12.3 --- Yours = 4.02 = 33% of optimal

Sample 3 : Optimal = 4.75 --- Yours = 3.39 = 71% of optimal

Sample 4 : Optimal = 0.33 --- Yours = 1.11 = 336% of optimal

Totals : Optimal = 57.58 (ref range : 9.03 - 70.9) --- Yours = 22.83 = 40% of optimal

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You could do the same exercise with the arithmetic for the Regenerus optimal ranges and see what pops out the other end.

Based purely on my own gut feelings, I would say that the Regenerus reference ranges were generated from the results of lots of sick people. It makes no sense to me that person A could have a cortisol level of 0.33 nmol/L at bedtime, and person B could have a cortisol level of 7.0 nmol/L, in other words, 21 times as much, and both people could have cortisol within the reference range.

Looking at the reference ranges for the totals :

Medichecks : 25.34 - 41.5 --- Top of range is 1.6 times higher than the bottom of the range

Regenerus : 9.03 - 70.9 --- Top of range is 7.8 times higher than the bottom of the range

Again, the Regenerus reference range just seems bizarre to me. The Medichecks one makes much more sense.

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I've grumbled about reference ranges for cortisol saliva tests before. I've seen some that included zero in the reference range for samples 3 and 4 - can't remember which company it was though. Personally, I think a cortisol level of zero is probably only healthy for a corpse.

There are lots of supplements and prescribed drugs that can have an impact on cortisol - see these links :

stopthethyroidmadness.com/s...

rt3-adrenals.org/does_it_af...

If you were taking any of the listed drugs or supplements it could have an effect on your cortisol results (up or down, depending on the substance). Some of them are things it would be easy to stop taking for a couple of weeks before testing (in my untrained opinion) e.g. zinc. But other things couldn't be and shouldn't be given up willy-nilly because doing so could be very dangerous e.g. anti-depressants or hydrocortisone.

I don't have any comments to make on your actual results. They are so dramatically different that there is nothing I can say. I would suggest avoiding Regenerus in future - but I may be prejudiced due to ignorance, since I have no medical training.

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Some links you may find helpful :

coreonehealth.com/the-3-sta...

functionalmedicine.net/pdf/...

hormonerestoration.com/Cort...

The 2nd link is hard going. It does discuss the connection between cortisol and DHEA though, which is useful. And since your DHEA is very low it would be well worth your while to try and understand the connection - it's something I haven't got to grips with myself.

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Thanks for going to all that trouble and thank you for the links. To be honest I am totally confused but I would prefer if the Regenerus were correct because I have severe osteoporosis and of course high cortisol is damaging to bone density. I am going to get some of that Dr Lam's powder I think that was mentioned here and see how I go and perhaps take HB and zinc at night time now. I have been advised to start taking ACE for the three lows but I am not keen because firstly it contains a bovine constituent and someone did query bse, not that I have much to worry about being a mad cow anyway, but I am concerned that a once reputable company like Thorne is now a partner with a huge Chinese company. There has been much discussion about this on the Osteoporosis Foundation, also another reputable company Doctor's Best has been taken over completely by a Chinese company. Many of us have swerved their products now as we cannot be sure of whether the source of ingredients is from the U.S. or China the latter being notorious for toxicity in their soil etc.

I never took any supplements with the Regenerus, but I was taking HB, Ashwagandha and rhodiola drops when I did the Medichecks test, also daily codeine because of the pain I am in.

Regarding the DHEA, I guess that is because of my age, 70, ugh!! It did say on the test results regarding that:

"DHEA level is consistent with the expected decline with age (adrenopause). The low DHEA level may warrant supplementation for optimal well-being. Note: Supplementation with DHEA may increase testosterone and/or estradiol levels. Diurnal cortisol pattern and reported symptoms are consistent with early (Phase 1) HPA axis (adrenal gland) dysfunction, although concomitant thyroid and/or iodine insufficiency cannot be ruled out. The reported symptoms are suggestive of progesterone insufficiency (estrogen dominance) and androgen imbalance. E2, Pg, and testosterone levels are a consideration"

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Human beans comments are very interesting, and maybe suggest the Regenerus results aren't very good quality. Medichecks has become quite a trusted company on the forum, and I haven't heard of Regenerus before.

I've made a few interventions in my own cortisol over the years, and I've found its very hard to find good advice about how to interpret them. Looking at your Medichecks results, they don't actually seem too bad. The evening his only a tiny bit over range, and the morning is a little higher, but still its quite a small amount over. Technically this is a high result, but I think it's probably not significant. An important thing is that you've got the characteristic shape of a much higher morning result, reducing throughout the day. It suggests your adrenals are being given a workout, but are not overacting like crazy or failing in anything.

If I were you I'd try a third test, if it matches either of the others, you can probably write off the odd one out as an error. I would either go with Medichecks again as the forum has recommended them, or Geneva which used to be the only company ThyroidUK recommended, and has been used by forum members for many years. The most likely interpretation of a very unexpected result is that its a mistake.

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Thanks. I will see how I go and then perhaps do a Genova test. I did do a post about Medichecks and I do wonder about them as they are still advertising the PTH test to be done on its own (without calcium) and to be posted off which is wrong. When I wrote to them and said that parathyroid is nothing to do with thyroid, they quickly responded and within a couple of days they re-worded the ad for the test but still left it as far as the pth test is concerned. I would continue to use them for thyroid checks or maybe try Blue Horizon as I haven't tried them in the past but I don't think I would do a cortisol test with them again. The Regenerus test was far more stringent even to the point of saying no face cream the night before the test or during the following day, also there were lots of questions to tick but who's to say anyone looked at them.

healthunlocked.com/thyroidu...

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Yea. I don't have any personal experience with Medichecks. I've had my saliva tests with Geneva and haven't heard of anyone having problems with that one.

Medichecks only seems to have been used by the forum for 6 months or maybe a bit longer. Geneva and BlueHorizon have been used the whole three years I've been here. I feel like Geneva is the more serious and professional of the two, while BH is a little bit more cheap and cheerful. But their owner is active on the forum asking for feedback from us and showing good levels of understanding. I get all my thyroid tests with them, every 6 weeks for the past 18 months, so I am certainly trusting then with that.

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That sounds promising, I might try them for thyroid for a change. I see that Medichecks have a new doctor now overseeing stuff but still haven't removed that stupid PTH testing which should be done always with calcium and not posted. My surgery wont do it because of it "going off in the van" so I get a docket to go to the walk in phlebotomy clinic at our local Cambridge hospital for parathyroid and calcium.

Always difficult to know what to do for the best. Was advised to take 7 ACE a day up to before 7 p.m. for the "low" cortisol, this has bovine in it and I did have a sensitivity test last November and beef came up as a no no, not that I eat meat anyway. I might just plug on with trying to lower the night time one and hope that its Medichecks who are wrong or maybe in the six weeks my adrenals are just worn out. I have severe osteoporosis so I don't want a surplus of cortisol making it worse.

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Hi Elaine, do Regenerus do their own testing do you know ? And presumably they are accredited labs ? I've not used or heard of them before. I believe Medichecks use The Drs Lab for their 24 hr Urine test, who are highly reliable labs.

I've only used Medichecks relatively recently for 24 Hr Urine Cortisol (their tests are reasonably priced & cheaper than Genova). All results have come back high too ! Although lowering each time. And I've noticed a couple of posts on here where their Medichecks Cortisol results have come back high. One having a blood test follow up which was normal. So seems I'm in good company !

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QUE6T-33,

Regenerus info is on the main Thyroid UK website here thyroiduk.org/tuk/testing/r...

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Thanks RedApple !

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I've no idea about Regenerus labs. I don't think I would use Medichecks again for a saliva test, we were subsequently advised on the big adrenal group on Facebookbook not to use them because their night time reading has a problem, why I don't know. As I said before, I would use them for thyroid but I do wonder about their competency in view of the parathyroid test they offer. Genova might be the next one to try for cortisol testing.

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I came across this article, maybe you have already seen it but the descriptions in it fit me to a T, even the fat stomach which is so unlike me, having always been on the slim side. Mind you I have lost 3 inches in height due to the compressed T5 so maybe all the blubber cant find anywhere else to go! hormonesbalance.com/article...

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Hi Elaine - yes, I use to use Genova & was happy with their reporting, etc. have also used Blue Horizon. Think I will use one of them next too.

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I noticed on a facebook group on the subject that they no longer use Genova so I asked why. Can't remember the exact reason now as it's not something I'm familiar with but it was because they had changed the ranges and I think it was something like the morning (?) range was zero and so they recommended Regenerus

I know these tests are t cheap so may. E ask around on a new post.

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Oh dear, back to the drawing board!

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Just sorry I could 't remember the exact facts but thought to mention it as I appreciate it can be expensive to get them done. Plus there is always a chance that it may have been changed again. I think the group I mentioned on facebook was FTPO-Adrenals (for thyroid people or patients only)

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Yes I know the group, it's done in co-ordination with Stop The Thyroid Madness. I like to keep an open mind!

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