Is it possible that I’ve gone down the wrong road to feel well?
Two years after starting Estrogen only treatment for menopause I developed hypothyroid symptoms. I always assumed I didn’t need progesterone as I’ve had a hysterectomy. However, I recently discovered the key role that progesterone plays in thyroid health. So my question is, as I was only borderline hypothyroid, was I suffering from low progesterone/ Estrogen dominance which caused my thyroid to struggle? Could I stop Levothyroxine ( as I’m still struggling after 18 months) and try Progesterone to see if my thyroid starts working again?
I don’t think I have Hashimotos so IF my thyroid was just craving a progesterone kick is it worth me trying that route?
Has 18 months of Levo stopped my thyroid from ever working?
I realise that’s more than one question, but any help would be gratefully received 🤷♀️
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SarahJane1471
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From what I've read, and listend to, my understanding is that if your thyroid is destroyed and you need Levo, that isn't going to change.
What you can do is optimise your health through correct nutrition and supplements, optimal dosage of Levo or other thyroid meds and regular blood testing to keep an eye on all this.
thank you for your quick reply 😁. I’ve probably not been clear. I started Estrogen gel nearly 6 yrs ago and Levothyroxine 18 months ago. I’m wondering if the low progesterone triggered the hypothyroidism as progesterone plays an important role in thyroid health. Does that make more sense?
PTSD could trigger it too (also years later) from what I've heard, plus a virus e.g. EBV, trauma, car accidents, pregnancies all seem to get a mention as possible causes. From what I've read online, low progesterone slows the thyroid's ability to do its job, so your line of thinking is linked but are so many contributing factors.
I was put on HRT in 2016/17 and taken off it in 2020. I rang the GP desperate for help as it stopped working - all my peri-menopausal symptoms had returned with friends, I'd asked for a bigger dose, a new GP asked me to stop taking it immediately and sent me for blood tests and as she suspected, I was probably hypothyroid to start with and HRT had masked it for some time. With the benefit of hindsight I can now see I had Hashi's hyper phases as a teen and into my 30s, my 40s have been definitely dominated by Hypo. My cause, genetic is likely (aunt and grandma had thyroid related conditions), plus childhood trauma, pregnancies that made me hypo and hyper (diagnosed as post partum thyroiditis at the time), car accident with whiplash, covid, stress, decades of low Vitamins and adrenal fatigue.
So many possibilities for the root cause, the podcast I mentioned is amazing, you might find something in there.
Thankyou. Yes I think I’ve heard that podcast. Funnily enough I’ve had PTSD for 22 yrs! Triggered from a car crash at the age of 17 ( I was a passenger and my 3 friends in the car died) I understand there are many underlying possibilities but none of my symptoms appeared until 3 yrs ago, two years after starting HRT. There is a tonne of research about low progesterone/Estrogen dominance linking to hypo being triggered. It’s sooo frustrating 🤦♀️
I’m so sorry to hear of this trauma SarahJane1471; undoubtedly this could be a key factor in triggering your thyroid condition. For me, I think my trigger was having meningitis followed by 2 pregnancies close together. Regarding the progesterone imbalance, this is something I’m currently trying to work out too, as I’ve been taking HRT for 6 months (currently utrogestan and oestrogen) and feel like I need to adjust my medication due to an increase in aches and pains.
Thankyou. The trauma was 40 yrs ago. I’m not sure that it would take that long to trigger hypothyroidism 🤔. I started HRT over 5 yrs ago and hypo symptoms started 2 years later. I think 💭 estrogen only HRT meant low progesterone which triggered hypothyroidism 🤷♀️Just a theory
I feel a lot better since swapping from combined progesterone / oestrogen tablets to the oestrogen gel and micronised progesterone (which was recommended by my Endo).
Definitely worth a try! There’s quite a bit of info on the menopause Balance App about different ways of taking it (eg one tablet a day, 2 tablets for 2 weeks or even vaginally).
GPs and medical instructions don’t recommend vaginally, but some menopause specialists do suggest this to women who have problems (eg increased anxiety) taking the oral version. There’s an article on this on the Balance app that may be worth a look if you are interested.
I had increased anxiety with one type of (combined) progesterone and this is why my endocrinologist recommended micronised progesterone . I’ve read similar stories on the Louise Newson App cited above. As I’ve only taken progesterone orally, I can’t comment on the advantages of taking it vaginally, other than my Endocrinologist did say it was an option if micronised progesterone caused me further anxiety issues (it hasn’t).
Oestrogen only HRT oral or creams not vaginally. Vaginal oestrogen does not get through to the main system to replace oestrogen it only works on the vaginal area only to supply missing oestrogen.
but it CAN be the other way round! I’ve now read lots about LOW progesterone causing hypothyroidism 🤷♀️I think it’s very individualised ( if that’s a word 🤣)
I know! I’m not saying I’m not hypothyroid, just that IF it’s because I had low progesterone for many years it caused my thyroid to struggle. So IF I add progesterone I MIGHT help my thyroid……….. now my brain is fizzled 🤦♀️
I have read this too, that the estrogen dominance causes a rise in thyroglobulin binding hormones which bind to t4 and T3 and prevent them entering the cell. I too was on estrogen hrt for years and had classic side effects such as uterine polyps and had three operations over a period of 4 years to remove them but no medic suggested changing my hrt or mentioned thyroid rrisks. womenshealthnetwork.com/thy...
In my case I think my thyroid is full of holes and I have to take replacement Therapy but if I was borderline I think I would look further into the possibility of adjusting sex hormone balance
I tried Utrogestan but after 2 months ( one month orally and one month vaginally) I stopped. It gave me horrendous nightmares and made me anxious. Did not like the sensation. I’ve now just started T3 in small doses to see if it helps. So far so good
If you don't mind, I would love to hear more about your T3 experience. I have Hashimoto's and I'm healing from mold illness. I have very low estrogen, progesterone and testosterone. Post menopausal levels, but I am not in menopause! I have been battling with my ND for an increased thyroid dose. She finally agreed to add T3 (2 mcg at a time) about two weeks ago. Now that I am on the other side of the mold battle, I am hoping the increased T3 will help to rebalance my sex hormone levels.
try looking at my other posts on my T3 journey. Click on my name and it will send you to my profile.
Please note that you don’t go “through” the menopause. Your loss of estrogen/progesterone/testosterone is permanent. You can start HRT at anytime in your life.
Try looking at Dr Louise Newson on Google. She is the guru for all things menopause,
Yes my hypo was only recognised in 2020 despite peculiarities in my health all my adult life (which in hindsight all add up).
I do get more hypo when I'm pre-menstural, which if I understand my cycle correctly this is when I have low progesterone, and the HRT would have levelled this out, so it can certainly have an impact, but I am not sure it would be a 'cause' for me.
I'll be interested to read what others think on this.
In theory, if your thyroid is essentially healthy, it would kick back in again if you stopped taking levothyroxine.
The “in theory” bit is more of a caveat. If you’ve been on levo a while your thyroid will have shrunk—wasn’t being used, after all. So it would need to grow again and get used to being back in action.
I’m told this is perfectly possible. I’ve even seen an article somewhere that stated it would take a mere two weeks for things to get back to normal (but I think that’s a bit ambitious—I’d say maybe a few months of things gradually improving).
If you think about it though, it’s not a lot different to being on the contraceptive pill, is it? While on the pill, your ovaries don’t do their normal job. But when you come off the pill, they usually kick back in.
Edited to add: however, this is supposing that the thyroid itself was ever at fault. If instead it wasn’t working because of pituitary/hypothalamus signalling failures, then it still won’t work properly.
thank you… that’s food for thought 🧐. I was thinking the same but you’ve added the pituitary/hypothalamus issue which I had not considered. I did have tests for secondary hypo but heard nothing back re the blood test. So I’ve assumed that’s all ok 🤷♀️
Hmm now there's a question and the very same one I asked myself when everything else didn't seem to result in total 'wellness'. I might have to go on a bit about this subject to actually show you how I also came to the same conclusion.
I believe I have had a problem with 'my thyroid or at least something' all my life - as a child always tired - muscle aches etc. etc. - however was the 'something' my adrenal glands not firing properly.
I worked this out by looking back - felt amazing when pregnant and amazing when on the pill - I mean changed my life - full of energy felt so well - underlying there were other day to day things but the energy was fantastic. It was when I was told to change the pill to a lower dose that things went wrong. I suddenly - after being someone who could eat anything and I mean anything - I would not put on weight - I was 8 stone 4 lbs and it never changed. My Dr. was shocked when she saw how I had 'blown' up' (I now know that was a cortisol bloat) she immediately put me back on the higher dose and I lost the weight. Unfortunately during the time I had come off the higher pill I had grown a fibroid and eventually after a couple of years where it grew quite large I had to have a hysterectomy (ovaries retained). I was never the same after that. I looked dreadful like an old lady - I was 33 - my skin was parched and dry and wrinkled it was awful. I was distraught - particularly as the surgeon would not admit I needed oestrogen - eventually after about 2 years of really suffering I went on oestrogen only prescribed by a lady Dr. Energy back skin plump and young looking and great energy.
Everything was fine until I reached 50 and the menopause and it has taken me a lot of research to work out what was going on. I suddenly went from 8.4 stone to 16 stones rapidly - I looked like the Michelin Man - it cost me my career - I could no longer work as I could not get into any work clothes with an abdomen the size of full term pregnancy.
Finally after 15 years - my blood tests were always showing normal range - I was put on thyroid hormone - and I still took the oestrogen only gel. But I never got back to how I used to look or even felt and the battle now commenced.
I told myself I have two bookcases here full of books on the thyroid and adrenals - and somewhere within those books and the internet was the answer.
I came to find out that possibly the oestrogen had caused a problem with the thyroid – but only when I got to 50 ? why was that !
I then found out that the adrenal glands – the sex hormones – supply oestrogen – progesterone and cortisol and many other hormones. The adrenal glands are supposed to supply the additional need of hormones when the ovaries stop producing at menopause – hence why so many women have problems with the menopause – the ones who don’t, just have good adrenal gland function. If someone has had a thyroid problem for many years then they have been using ‘adrenal energy’ rather than thyroid energy hence why at 50 etc. they get problems – no ‘extra’ within the adrenal gland function to supply the oestrogen progesterone etc.
After reading – progesterone deficiency was causing most if not all of my symptoms – including the fibroids and lactose intolerance would you believe – I was prescribed progesterone tablets – they did not agree with me and caused my breast tissue to swell – I stopped the tablets – let’s try again – use a cream but only a tiny amount- same thing breast tissue swelling. It had to be that the progesterone pathway was either not getting through or was blocked. After being amazed that carbs – protein etc. were metabolised by the adrenal glands and experiencing digestive issues that made me aware I had a problem in that area. I worked out the following – that the sex hormones within the adrenal glands were faulty – so it isn’t actually a deficiency of progesterone per se but a deficiency within the adrenal glands to supply the amounts needed for the body via that gland.
They say that high oestrogen levels cause breast cancer – I don’t believe this I believe it is low progesterone not balancing out the oestrogen levels – and I did get a Dr. to agree with me on this.
I am now on adrenal support - having to take steroids but the sex hormone issue has not resolved itself obviously, as cortisol steroids I now know will suppress progesterone – and energy levels are still very low and the thyroid isn’t balanced.
I am now on a mission to sort out the sex hormones and have found what is possibly the problem but not sure I should recommend this to others as I do not want to be responsible for people using something that might not suit them other than by medical practitioner. So yes you are maybe right that in your case progesterone could be involved as indeed I found out to my cost. But a word of advice – IF you do use progesterone products and your breasts swell up – in my opinion you should stop taking immediately.
Quote “ Oestrogen triggers your thyroid to create thyroglobulin, a thyroid precursor hormone. Too little oestrogen will result in too little thyroglobulin, while too much oestrogen can cause too much thyroglobulin creating an enlarged thyroid.
Stress: The most common cause of low progesterone levels is high stress levels. During a stressful time of worry and concern, such as that of pregnancy, the body produces a stress hormone known as cortisol. This hormone may prevent production and actions of the progesterone. “ Unquote
johnleemd.com/ (John Lee was the guru for Progesterone therapy)
wow Thankyou for that! That’s really helpful. I too had a massive fibroid, hence my hysterectomy. Have you tried Utrogestan ( micronised progesterone). It’s supposed to be safer than progestin? I have always suspected my adrenals are struggling as I’ve had PTSD for 22yrs. I have an appointment with my long-standing GP on Friday so I will discuss with her. Thank you again x
My cortisol is sky high, especially at night and my DHEA is really low, so my Endo put me on DHEA. I am now wondering if that is depleting my progesterone? I have the mirena coil and oestrogen patches. Did you try progesterone via a mirena coil? And you would you think that ‘kicks out’ enough progesterone?
Hi glad to see endo's are finally using DHEA - may I ask was this the NHS or private prescribed this as usually only private that would do so - will be great if finally the NHS endo's are catching up with the private sector. I didn't use the coil I used the Utrogesten product. I am not aware of DHEA depleting progesterone - but there again DHEA produces or helps to produce oestrogen - testosterone and cortisol. How much DHEA are you taking ? Also the adrenal master steroid hormone Pregnenalone - is the hormone that produces progesterone as well.
Unfortunately the NHS didn’t want to know as I have secondary hypothyroidism. My TSH is normal so I must be fine, right? Never mind my T3 or T4…
I’m taking 50mcg off DHEA. I’ve heard that a few Endos are now pushing for Pregnenalone instead of DHEA as it can be converted by the body into whatever it needs?
Agh I thought so - my levels were always normal but in fact weren't - but antibodies blocking the real results. I believe that pregnenalone and DHEA work today so let's hope so. I wonder if the reason your cortisol levels are high at night might be that your DHEA level is too high - 50 mg is quite a high dose - I only take 10 mg - it is quite potent - and I have no levels showing at all in blood tests. Although in theory DHEA is supposed to reduce cortisol levels but it depends what other medications you are taking with it I daresay which could alter the balance.
I couldn’t tolerate Utrogestan but have been very happy with my progesterone Mirena coil since moving to Estrogen patches. I don’t think that it’s had a significant impact on my hypothyroidism as my levels have stayed similar.
Just wanted to point out another option to Ustrogestan, but there is also the possibility of using the tablets vaginally which some women find alleviates their intolerance.
The short answer is no just because you’ve used levo for a few months doesn’t mean your thyroid has stopped working - if my experience is worth anything. I took Levo for over 30 years and just recently found out I was estrogen dominant for all of those years - and one doctor did prescribe progesterone which did very little for balancing my thyroid hormone. However…..
I recently hit menopause. At about the same time I found out how much dietary iodine affected my thyroid. Very short story: estrogen production went down I removed foods that were high in iodine (iodized salt, seafood, egg yolks, dairy, almost everything that is naturally red / reddish) for a 30 day experiment. And my thyroid is as right as rain. I didn’t used to believe that the thyroid could heal - I wanted to believe but nothing I did worked / none of the protocols worked for me. I am alive and well and 98% medicine free of thyroid hormone replacement. (Very small amounts of desiccated bovine glandular every two or three days). My body no longer tries to destroy the hormone my thyroid was making. I no longer have thyroid hormone antibodies. Yes my thyroid has always worked always made thyroid hormone I had the tests and was diagnosed Hashimoto’s - my immune system killed the thyroid hormone. It is not a mis-type. My battle with Hashimoto’s was over 30 years long. I found out that I’m one of those people that over the years had accumulated a toxic buildup of iodine. One of my favorite foods was tuna! Iodize salt is the most common form of table salt here in the US. Eggs was another favorite food - yolks and all.
Dr. Alan Christianson, A naturopathic practicing endocrinologist, and himself a suffer of Hashimoto’s, has been telling people about the dangers of toxic iodine buildup for years and how simple it is to find out if you’re one of the people with a thyroid problem that can be relieved through iodine balancing (don’t hear iodine removal) He has a presence online. And yes he sells his own line of vitamins and minerals etc., like many others, but he gives away an unbelievable amount of free information. He has done his own research and reports that 75% of the people that do a 30 day iodine reduction diet attain relief / improve thyroid health.
You are onto something with estrogen dominance and thyroid health being connected - keep going down that path. Investigate and take a look at how much iodine you’re consuming and consider taking the 30 day experiment and lowering iodine intake. Please keep in touch and share what happens!
wow! Thankyou for that. Yes I eat a lot of tuna!! How weird. I use sea salt, does that contain a lot of iodine? I will definitely look into this. I’m not going to just stop Levo that would be silly. But think adding progesterone first would be a start.
Right, sea salt is fine, kosher salt is better (in my experience). There are many sources of food that contain higher amounts of iodine. I've recently learned that some lotions and cosmetics also contain iodine. I'm not one to slather on a lot of either, but then again....
Yes, and please don't stop the levo as you look into the / experiment with lowering iodine containing foods for 30 days. (That's the whole experiment) I knew immediately, (I began to have levo over-dose symptoms by the end of the 30 days) and I gradually decreased levo. (I also had the help of a wonderful Dr. who was willing to walk along with me in the experiment, read the book / research and found it sound.) What continues to baffle me is how much push back comes along with the simple idea that iodine could build up over time and become toxic in some people. In the US iodine can be "invisible" if you will, in that it is not required to be listed as an "ingredient" for instance, in commercial bread? Why? Because it is used as a dough conditioner, (see: nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/N.... This is in the US, and commercial bread is apparently made differently in Europe - but how would one really know? Again, is it required in Europe (if it is used as a dough conditioner) to be listed on the ingredients? What detectives we have to become in today's world of consuming ready made / commercially made foods. The salt in hot dogs, sausages, etc. most probably is "iodized salt" but all that is required in the list of ingredients is "salt". After all, it's not really about nutrition, right? It's about ROI! Back to the simple, simple idea. What if an over abundance of dietary iodine really is one of the larger contributors of thyroid / endocrine disruptors? The iodine piece of the puzzle, that previously had been left out of all the natural healing protocols that I tried (shall we count them?!) was in fact the key that brought my body back into balance. Even the estrogen piece, had been a bit masked by previous healing protocols. But when we look at all the great advice from numerous natural healing gurus (for the thyroid health), they all sound quite similar, to wit: No gluten (removes commercial bread, right?), no dairy, (milk is rich in iodine - for good reason - the baby calf needs it!), no eggs (same reason, and by the way, have you ever noticed that some egg yolks are more "reddish orange" while some are lemon yellow? It's the iodine content), no seafood (anything from the sea is naturally higher in iodine - why is sea kelp recommended for those suffering from thyroid problems other than Hashimotos?) And thinking about iodine sources stemming from cosmetics, that too has been a bit veiled. Why do we need to be careful about them? They too can contain not only iodine, but also estrogens. The point again - the diets are amazingly similar! It also explains why many of us doubted the gluten thing for so long...for me, it was not the gluten at all. It was the iodine that bound the gluten! Do you know how sweet it is to eat pasta again? Real, wheat pasta? Wheat contains almost no iodine. Homemade bread, sans the dough conditioners, is non (iodine overloading) toxic. Now, after two years, I do occasionaly indulge in commercial bread - with zero problems. My body has gradually dispensed with the toxic iodine overload.
For my part, I do need to know why I am depriving myself of bread, dairy, eggs, seafood, red wine, etc. I am so much the better patient if I can follow protocols understanding the reason why.
I just want to update you about my plans. I had a face to face with my GP this morning. I’ve known her for 22yrs and we have a great relationship. We discussed at length my continuing symptoms of fatigue/joint/muscle pains and the possibility that adding progesterone could help. My TSH is under range so I am reducing Levo to 100mcgs and starting Utrogestan. My antibodies are good so it is possible that my thyroid has been struggling because of low progesterone. We are going for a trial of three months.
IF progesterone works the plan is to slowly reduce Levo in the hope my thyroid will start work properly.
@jazzw just a quick question… I’ve now started Progesterone to see if I can get my thyroid working again. I’ve read on this forum that when taking Levothyroxine it replaces rather than tops up the T4. Does that mean that the only way to test the progesterone is to stop Levo altogether? OR will they work side by side? ( does that make sense 😬)
Adding missing ovarian hormones can improve the effectiveness of thyroid meds (I had to reduce my T3 after adding HRT) but this isn’t a guarantee.
Therefore, if I was you I would not have reduced Levothyroxine dose ahead of starting progesterone because you may not need a dose reduction.
Only one hormone should be altered/introduced at a time otherwise you risk confusing symptoms. Progesterone doesn’t work for everyone and may brings its own set of complexities which will be hard to untangle if you are under medicated with inadequate thyroid meds.
You should not stop your Levothyroxine to retest progesterone levels as the two hormones work side by side. Ask for your thyroid hormones and oestrogen to be tested alongside the progesterone to see where all levels now lie.
Good luck, I hope the progesterone makes a positive difference and remember symptoms can lag behind good biochemistry so give it several months 😊
radd thanks radd. I will put the Levo back up to 125. I don’t think I will be able to get the progesterone/estrogen levels tested by my GP. But I do have my last TFTs so can retest those in 3 months. So you’re saying thyroid will start working again even with Levo? ( I don’t have hashimotos)
'So you’re saying thyroid will start working again even with Levo? ( I don’t have hashimotos)’
No, I didn’t say that 😁
The direct science behind the progesterone is whilst oestrogen increases SHBG and possibly TBG, progesterone decreases. These are protein carriers required to carry hormones to the correct places and keep them safe but the right amount is crucial.
Too many protein carriers risks excess thyroid hormones being bound (so inactive), and too little protein carriers means not enough transport for the hormones to reach the receptors. This also leaves too much 'free' which risks indicating to the body to eliminate some either via conversion to inactive metabolites such as RT3 or through urine.
Adding Progesterone will hopefully have many positive effects (improved sleep, less anxiety, indirect protection against cancers by preventing cell overgrowth, etc) and should oppose the aggressive effects of oestrogen calming everything down.
So with regard to your question, it isn't necessarily the thyroid gland that stops working but the hormones that become bound making you symptomatic. And if you don't have Hashi but possibly secondary hypothyroidism then it would be dependant upon what type, ie problem with the pituitary or hypothalamus, and whether adding progesterone were to encourage better function and communication between the HPA and HPT axis in which case you might be able to reduce Levothyroxine dose.
Either way, it takes time for complete adjustments and like thyroid hormone med introduction HRT can not be rushed. Thyroid hormone, protein carriers, conversion, excretion, etc all work better with optimised hormone levels and iron/nutrients.
For more comprehensive investigation you could have SHBG & TGB tested.
thank you. That actually makes so much sense. I really appreciate you time to reply. I will stick to the Levo dose and persevere with progesterone and see what happens 👍
I noticed since going on Estrogen only HRT patches that my then untreated hypothyroidism got way worse, the TSH rising from mid 4s where it had been for many years (except for the time I was on T3) to nearly 9. So many hormones are at play it is hard to know exactly what is all going on, apart from the fact I am badly hypo, but recent blood tests showed I had very low IGF1, low SHBG and higher testosterone and the androgens, all indicating hypothyroidism too.
My GP has repeatedly refused me progesterone due to my hypo excess weight, but now I know the interplay, I am going to ask her again and try "insisting" I get it. I am seeing my NHS endo in a few days and will ask him too about the need for progesterone to help balance things for me.
Interestingly, since going T3 only 6 weeks ago, (self medicating), I believe my progesterone levels have raised because of the symptoms I get with it. I read that it can raise progesterone a little.
well I don’t know enough about all those other tests 😬. But I can say I started progesterone nearly 2 weeks ago ( staying on 125 of Levo) and I have noticed things changing already 🤷♀️. I’m waking up with energy, brain fog is lifting slowly,I’m even going to do a little decorating today ( taking it slowly obvs). I know we are all different and all the hormones interact. Im going to carry on and I’ll keep updating this post as it may be helpful to others. I will probably re test thyroid FTs in 3 months to see what’s happening.
Replying to you both - I was diagnosed with low IGF1 having injections are one point - nothing much helped - but progesterone raised growth hormone and weight gain is also attributed to low prog. Unfortunately I could not continue with it because of other issues but if you look at the symptoms for low prog they are so similar to low thyroid it is amazing.
👍that’s why I’m trying the progesterone to see if that was the cause of my thyroid problems. Been on estrogen only for nearly 6 years ……… it may be the answer, but I won’t know for a while. It’s too early to say at the moment
Sorry, for clarity, do you mean that you couldn't continue with the Progesterone or the (presumably) HGH for the IGF1? I read too prog can raise IGF1 and low IGF1 is also associated with being obese and I am big having put on 6 stone rapidly in 2 years. However I am losing it again without trying (yay) after doing mono T3 and vitamins.
Couldn't go with the prog as caused swollen breast tissue but was disappointed as it corrected so many other issues for me including lactose intolerance !
Amazing it sorted out the lactose intolerance. I noticed that as soon as I hit menopause, I was suddenly reacting to various foods I had never had issues with in my life and also had histamine like rashes. May well be the lack of prog. Or just the fact my thyroid got way worse all of a sudden. Or bit of both.
The prog could be low via the adrenal sex glands - not necessarily via general hormonal ovarian system. The sex glands within the adrenals produce oestrogen prog and cortisol etc etc. - hence when we hit the menopause some people have a bad time and others sail through it - all depends how their adrenals perform - as it is the adrenals that supply the oestrogen when the ovaries stop producing it.
By the way, I know when I took oral HRT (both estrogen and prog) for a short time my thinking, memory and learning, was so much better I even started studying again. But then I put on masses of weight and the docs forced me onto HRT patches only and my memory and all around cognitive ability is now like a dotty old lady. I am only 52.
I have been on T3 only for 6 weeks and a lot of things have improved including my mood and energy but my memory/thinking has not improved any yet. If anything it is a little worse.
I’ve been in progesterone a few weeks now an I’ve seen a remarkable improvement in my clarity of thinking and energy. Still not brilliant but I did do some decorating that I have been putting off for a year( I took it slowly, learnt from last years mistake) . However, I have noticed my heart racing quite a bit. Particularly in the evenings and I’ve been waking at 4am and struggling to get to sleep because I feel agitated. It’s weird because when I get up I feel great. Which is incredible as I used to feel so sluggish in the morning.
My thoughts are that this could now be too much Levo ( I stayed on 125).
Could it be that it’s time to start reducing? It seems amazing that this experiment with progesterone has worked so quickly 🤷♀️
This is a great thread 🙏 how did you get on with the reduction to 100mcg?
I've been through all this shenanigans and am now trying to guide my sister, this is really useful at reminding me of the process, as sometimes it got pretty foggy 😧
I was reading through your book review too, very good... well done for persisting, I lost the will when he got a bit wishy washy midway 😕 perhaps I'll revisit at some point but it wasn't really ground breaking, change the world stuff, just recycled knowledge 🙄
well a but confusing 🤦♀️. I stated using Utrogestan vaginally every other night and the “heart thumping” disappeared. But then I started with hypo symptoms again. Mainly fatigue. So have gone back up to 125 mcgs but take 75 early morning then 50 at midday. Don’t seem to get the pm slump quite so bad. I’m going to wait until the New Year then do a MMH test to see where my TFTs are. Depending on those results I will think about what to do next. I’m still tempted to try 150mcgs ( I’m 92kgs) to see how I feel. I will have enough Levo to try it.
I might even try Utrogestan orally again to see if I get the chest thingy.
TBH I’m a bit fed up trying to think what to do next 🤷♀️
It is such a moving target isn't it, I remember when I started on Utrogestan orally and if I got up for a pee in the night I was so dizzy I had to follow the wall to the bathroom! I then swapped to vaginal every other day whilst my body acclimatized, think I gave it a couple of weeks then back to oral and everything was better.
How much estrogen are you on? When mine drops I feel hypo, if I adjust one it effects t'other 🙄
I'm surprised splitting Levo makes any difference as it is a slow acting thing?
started 6 years ago on 1 pump and have increased over the years to 4. No progesterone until recently because I’m thinking I had low progesterone 🤷♀️. Now wondering if I should go back to taking Utrogestan orally to see if it helps. When I reduce the Estrogel I get terrible meno symptoms
So many angles to go at... it may be if you are absorbing estrogen well it is upping your need for Levo so you are constantly pushing the need for each up?
I experimented with extra estrogen earlier this year when I felt hypo and it made it a lot worse, as it worsened the conversion of T4 -T3... bit of a break through moment... it dropped my T3 from 3.7 - 3 over the 6 week trial. Dropped it back sorted out my B12, Vit D etc and introduced T3.... came back from the brink 😅
Now I'm on a relatively even keel if I start to feel a bit hypo it's usually a sign I've forgotten my Lenzetto, if something has knocked my routine out, I try to keep things to the bare minimum but it doesn't give you much leeway if you forget a dose 🙄luckily for me it's quick acting as opposed to tweaking T4
I had the same thoughts - even though I believe I was a low thyroid person from a child - I felt amazing when pregnant - amazing when on the pill energy never before felt - and amazing when after a hysterectomy I went on oestrogen only - in fact it is said that low progesterone causes fibroids to grow and I regret having not known this when I was 33 years of age with fibroids attached to the outside of the womb - if I had taken it then the fibroids would have shrivelled up - it was when I was taken off the pill for a while that the fibroids started to grow !!! Hit the menopause and had been on oestrogen successfully for over 30 years and felt wonderful until then. Suddenly started getting symptoms which I now know were low thyroid problem. Managed to get on progesterone after seeing a private consultant however, when I took progesterone whether it be orally or by creams I felt dreadful. More research and worked it out that yes I am low on progesterone but it was not coming from the ovaries but the adrenal glands. When you go through the menopause the adrenal glands are supposed to supply the odd bit of oestrogen to keep the body going - they also supply progesterone etc. - my adrenals were obviously 'worn down' with thyroid problem so that they could not supply the extra needed. So yes you are right but oestrogen dominance they state is actually low progesterone. DHEA and Pregnenalone are the suppliers of the sex hormones and I believe in my case this is where my problem has always been - hence why feeling so well - when the adrenal glands were supplied with the hormones needed when pregnant when progesterone high and when on the pill where progesterone is supplied. Hope this helps.
Perhaps you should consider progesterone cream which is easier to tweek up or down rather than taking a tablet which is a bit final once taken you cannot take it back if you feel rubbish.
well that experiment failed. I took Utrogestan orally for two nights. I woke up both nights about 4 am with anxiety and couldn’t go back to sleep 🤦♀️. When I did doze off I had very weird dreams 😳. I’m going back to using vaginally ( although I’m not sure whether it makes much difference). I put my Levo back up to 125mcgs about 4 weeks ago. I’ll wait until mid Jan and test.
So fed up with trying find the answer to all this 😞
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Do i need more Progesterone, estrogen dominance
has anyone here used estrogen?
Progesterone or Estrogen
Estrogen dominance and high cortisol with hairloss
