Progesterone or Estrogen

[spacenk]

On 125mg of thyroxine, menopausal, HRT didn't agree with me, off it now, skin on face, particularly wrinkled and sagging, weight off the chart. Any suggestions on what cream/gel I can use to allivate symptoms, is it progesterone or estrogen I need, know that soy is not good for us thyroid lot?

[anna-marieB]

I am on Thyroxine, T3 and HRT. There are plenty of different varieties of HRT.

I am on a combination of Estrogeon and progesterone called Elleste Duo that I feel fine on. I was also trialed on 2 others that didnt agree with me. Maybe you need to go back to your GP. There are also patches that seem to be a popular choice with GPs.

[Mouldyoledoll]

Ask you go for Estrogen gel it is better than the tablets

[sue_b in reply to Mouldyoledoll]

Yes, the gel bi- passes the liver, much better for you but GP's have to justify giving you the Gel, I guess its more expensive.

[thyr01d]

Hi spacenk, may I follow you please because I was going to post a similar question? I've been on the gel for one month and have 'morning sickness', nausea all day, worse up to about 3 pm so I often don't eat at all until 3, yet, as always on oestrogen I have gained weight.

I would like to see what suggestions people have.

[spacenk in reply to thyr01d]

Hi thyr01d, of course, by all means, by the by, going for another blood test today 16th Jan, regarding thyroid then next week for results and to ask if I could try other alternatives of hrt. Will keep you posted.

[thyr01d in reply to spacenk]

Thanks spacenk

[sue_b in reply to thyr01d]

Are you also taking progestin/progesterone? If not you will get symptoms from the eostrogen.

[thyr01d in reply to sue_b]

Hie sue_b, thanks for the info, I'm not taking progesterone as well, didn't know it was necessary. I'd really appreciate any more info if you'd be happy to pm me rather than interrupting this post? Like, how do you find out such things, what we need to know that we need to take?

[sue_b in reply to thyr01d]

Hi there, who prescribed your eostrogen for you? They should have the knowledge to help you with this. If they haven't suggested progesterone I think you need to do some research and find someone else to help. Check out the British Menopause Society website Lots of info on there.

[posthinking01]

Hi there can I ask what happened when you took HRT - the liver is particularly compromised with thyroid issues as the metabolism is very sluggish - so if you were taking a tablet then it takes longer to go through the system and be utilised. Gel would be better or indeed patches as suggested already - tablets also have a colouring on the outside either red or yellow when I took tablets and they can upset the system.

[spacenk in reply to posthinking01]

Yes, was put on hrt patches ( Envorel conti) gained weight, snappy, and hair loss. Found out that that particular hrt not good for hair.

[phoenix23002]

Most of us women have a condition called estrogen dominance..... estrogen that is unopposed or not balanced with progesterone. Rarely do we need extra estrogen. Taking progesterone usually can take care of our symptoms.... brain fog, short term memory loss, weight gain, grumpiness, insomnia etc. I strongly suggest that one reads the book "What Your Doctor May Not Tell You About Menopause" by Dr. John Lee. He was the first doctor to make the connection between women's meno woes and the body's lack of progesterone. The book is great for any age woman tho, not just those of us who are older.

Dr. Lee managed to mimic the body's dosage of progesterone and even bone strength was improved under the regime. Pretty simple.... count first day of period as day one. Count each day until 10 or 11 is reached. Then you apply approx. 10 mgs of good quality OTC progesterone cream (not progestin or prescription progestin cream/tablets). You apply the cream for approx. 10 - 11 days, changing application sites each nite/day then stop. Your period should start within a few days.

If your periods have already stopped (you are menopausal) just pick out any two week period of the month and apply 10 mgs of the cream each day for 10 - 11 days.

It can take one to two months to 'kick in' but I have seen positive results in as little as a few weeks after application.

Also, do type in your search engine.... progesterone and thyroid connection. Lots of information will pop up explaining how good progesterone levels are so helpful for hypothyroidism and for the adrenals etc. Here is one article that I found. There are many more.

hypothyroidmom.com/progeste...

[sue_b in reply to phoenix23002]

Hi there, did this regime stop hot flushes and urethral/urinary tract problems associated with Menopause?

Thanks

[Tuscansun in reply to sue_b]

In my case it was estrogen that helped with UT issues.

[sue_b in reply to Tuscansun]

So you take both oestrogen and progesterone?

I am on transdermal oestradiol average 1.5 pumps a day and take utrogestin x 1.

I also use vagifem 3 times a week ( 2 a week do not control my symptoms) Bloods were tested before hand. I am "morbidly obese".

It seems the HRT has slightly reduced the affect of my thyroid meds, 100mcg thyroxine and T3 25mcg a day, as my TSH has gone up from 0.08 to 0.09 and my T4 has gone down from 14 to 11. Usual ranges.

I am interested to know if the hot flushes and horrendous urinary tract symptoms can be controlled without the eostrogen. I had hot flushes for 9 years but when the urinary tract stuff kicked in a few years ago I just couldn't manage my life without the HRT.

[Tuscansun in reply to sue_b]

I started with progesterone over the counter (Serenity) some years ago and it helped to keep PMS under control but had horrible UTIs regularly. Last UTI took 3 months and many rounds of antibiotics to treat. Asked GP for estrogen, got Vagifem and my UTIs stopped.

[sue_b in reply to Tuscansun]

So you are just using Vagifem? I think thats OK, they didn't give progesterone to me when they prescribed Vagifem. Its a very, very low dose and from what I can gather from reading the research, it doesn't impact the body wide system. BUT, I am not medically trained. I suggest you do your own research and if you want further info, the BMS is a good place to look. I know this is off the thyroid side of the original question but Yes Yes Yes do a female hygiene foam wash that I have found brilliant. It is pH balanced especially for ladies. The suggestion is that the pH goes dolally when you don't have enough estrogen. I think it is just very gentle though, it is not going to impact the pH inside, if you know what I mean

Is there a Menopause forum on Health UNlocked? I think there should be

[Tuscansun in reply to sue_b]

GP prescribed Vagifem but I also use bio identical progesterone Serenity which I purchase from Wellspring website. I suspect my UTI were rather internal than external (like persistent infection waiting to be triggered) but will have a look at feminine wash foam - thank you!

[phoenix23002 in reply to sue_b]

Progesterone supplement can help with hot flashes. Don't know about the urinary tract problems. My sis has extreme dryness in this area and has taken hrt for years and years. I never took hrt .. only over-the-counter progesterone cream and no problems with dryness. Over time, supplementing with natural progesterone can start bringing all the hormones into balance. Not in a dramatic fashion but it starts balancing estrogen, melatonin (sleep hormone) and other hormones. Our bodies do a delicate dance with our hormones and the book I mentioned can be so very helpful in explaining what is happening with our bodies during menopause.

My 55 yr old niece had great relief of hot flashes by supplementing with black cohosh extract. She said she got more relief from that than from the natural progesterone cream she had taken for some time. I am in the states and we can purchase black cohosh extract over the counter. Nature's Way is a good name brand. Not sure if it is available in the UK but if so, it should be available thru outlets and on line at places like Vitacost and/or Amazon.

As for bladder infections, it is said that as many as 80 % of bladder infections are caused by the E. coli bacteria and those can often be controlled by consuming

D. Mannose. Again, this is available over the counter here in the U.S. Some women take D. Mannose daily as a preventive. Also taking probiotics can be helpful in keeping our protective flora and fauna in good balance.

As always, one should do their own research and due diligence when considering using any new product or supplement. We are all different.

[Panda_26]

I'd too be interested to know if there's people on thyroid replacement who successfully take hrt .

I've had two failed attempts and am seeing the specialist again tomorrow. Both times despite trying bioidentical topical estrogen balanced with progesterone I've ended up with breast lumps and fibroid growth . So end up scared to continue despite having so many issues that I'd hoped hrt could help...

[Tyna20 in reply to Panda_26]

I have been on Premarin .625 for 25 years very successfully until recently. The cardiologist has taken me off it as I have AF. I’m hoping in the not too distant future I can go back on it. I have been on Levothyroxine for 15 years .

Hope you get it sorted.

[Hidden]

I use Estrogel (prescription transdermal gel) and BioLabs Bi-Est (transdermal cream - Amazon.com). In my case no estrogen = UTI's from hell! 😕 Progesterone doesn't agree with me (causes headaches, nausea, tiredness, painful breasts, etc) so since it's not necessary (hysterectomy) I stopped using that a long time ago.

[london81]

i think it would be useful to post your thyroid results here along with reference ranges, as this can help any advice given. if you don’t have these please request your medical file from GP which is yours by law ( GDPR/data protection), it’s unlikely anyone can advise you on next steps without knowing your thyroid health and any hormone results

[magsyh]

Every woman is different I would advise hormone testing without Hrt before making any decision on hormone replacement. Personally I have enough estrogen but had very low progesterone. I didn't hit menopause till 61. I use natural progesterone cream every day very low dose as it's all I need. It supports my adrenal and thyroid function. I had to get the hormones tested privately as GPS think it's not necessary. I discovered their problem is they have no idea what the results mean, even a specialist had no idea what the results meant. Have a P to E2 ratio done that will tell you what your body truly needs.

[caroash]

Hi I am on Oestrogel and Utogesterone tablets,even though Bioidentical,the progesterone doesn't suit me ,feel awful second half of month.I started taking 1 Utogesterone instead of two and now I have a problem with thickening of the uterus lining,7mm so have to have hysteroscopy and biopsy.Would be interested in the progesterone cream and where it's from Its not easy to get the balance right m

[Tuscansun in reply to caroash]

What was your lining measurement before you started HRT? As far as I heard up to 8mm consumers within normal range.

[milkwoman]

As stated by magsyh every woman is different. The goal with HRT is BALANCE. When your hormones are balanced (thyroid and sex hormones), your body works properly. When they are not, things run amok.

Being estrogen-dominant all my life, around age 30 I was placed on progesterone cream (custom compounded) that I applied daily and it helped me tremendously.

I went into perimonopause early (around age 42) and was in that state for many years. Menopause hit at age 49. At that time I was placed on a twice-weekly estrogen patch and switched to 200mg oral progesterone, which seemed to work okay for a bit but I noticed I was getting symptoms on the days I wasn’t taking the oral progesterone. I then went to daily 200mg oral progesterone (which was fine by me as I was not interested in continuing to have a monthly period) and that seemed to work just okay (was still having some breakthrough bleeding) and then the pharmacy switched brands on me. Then things began to go haywire - night sweats became unbearable and I noticed rapid weight gain around my mid section. I quickly called my doctor to nip this in the bud. Clearly, oral progesterone was not working for me.

I was then switched to a custom compounded bi-est cream (estriol and estradiol) that also contains progesterone. It took about 6 -9 months to get the dosage optimal to where I was feeling good with no symptoms. My waistline returned (pretty quickly once I made the switch - it was the other symptoms that took time and adjustments to resolve) and no more night sweats, hot flashes, insomnia, bleeding, etc. One thing HRT does affect is thyroid replacement. I found that I needed to increase my T4 while on HRT. I also now take a bit of T3.

I don’t agree that estrogen-dominant women don’t require estrogen. I certainly need it to keep me balanced. In fact, when I was still having night sweats, it was an increase in the bi-est portion of my cream that eliminated that last symptom.

Some women also need testosterone. I don’t since when I tried adding in just a little bit at the very beginning of my HRT process, my mood became irritable and I just seemed to be angry all the time. Testing my hormones at that time showed a huge increase in testosterone values which explained things so I haven’t taken any since. My body makes enough on its own.

There isn’t an easy answer to your question. Hormones are complicated and balancing them will take time. You have to find what works for you.

One last thing - my GYN examines me every 6 months to keep a close eye on uterine lining thickness as well as the size/health of my fibroids. So far, all is stable/unchanged which leads me to believe that I’m on a good HRT plan for my body. Fingers crossed it remains that way!

[phoenix23002]

Londinium... I use NPC cream and, as I am in the USA, I order from Amazon, USA for the best price and fast ship.

amazon.com/s?k=sarati+npc&c...

But I used to purchase this cream from this company and I know that they ship internationally. heranswer.com/products/14-n...

There used to be a company in the UK that offered this progesterone cream for sale......Emerita Pro-Gest Balancing Cream. I just checked the site again before sharing it with you and it is offering some off brand progesterone creams I have never heard of and I don't know how good they are. If you want the link, let me know.

[phoenix23002]

Londinium... here is the link. nhmpersonal-imports.net/aca...

[phoenix23002]

Here is the link to the company that offers the NPC cream and they do ship internationally.

heranswer.com/products/14-n...

I don't know of a company that offers the NPC cream in the UK. If you read my last post, I mention that a company used to offer the Emerita Pro-Gest Balancing Cream whicb is an excellent over the counter progesterone cream. If I could not get the NPC cream, the Pro Gest product would be my next choice.

Unfortunately, when I went to double check that the link was still viable and they were still offering the Pro Gest, I found that they were instead, offering some off-brand progesterone cream. nhmpersonal-imports.net/aca...

On their site, this product looks promising.... Kokoro Women's Formula 100ml pump. I started using the NPC cream back in the nineties because it was one of about 20 creams named as acceptable by Dr. Lee in his book. I have had good luck with it and trust it. Dr. Lee cautioned that even if progesterone products looked alright, to be careful that additives did not interfere with the absorption of the progesterone, especially the various creams and oils in the products.

You might do a google search in your area (the UK) and see what natural progesterone creams are available for sale over the counter.

[phoenix23002]

Londinium.... don't know if this will help or not but I searched Amazon Canada and then searched for progesterone cream and my Pro Gest brand came up. Apparently, Pro Gest and progesterone cream are available thru Amazon Canada. Now, whether they will ship to the UK and whether the UK will allow entry of a product from Canada I can't say but maybe it is worth a try? Here is the link to Amazon Canada and the Pro Gest. Good luck.

amazon.ca/Emerita-Pro-Gest-...

[Karen09]

I take Tibolone and wouldn't be without it. It is a different kind of HRT and women tend to stay on it forever because when it works it protects your body in many ways besides alleviating the problems that come from menopause.