Does levothyroxine reduce estrogen levels if estrogen reduces thyroid hormones?

[Angelic69]

I know these pair work together, estrogen and thyroid hormone, but if one of them is high would that make the other low? I'm confused that taking estrogen reduces my thyroid hormones, I have noticed wrinkles since being on Levothyroxine so I'm guessing it reduces my estrogen? Are they in battle with one another to attach to circulating proteins? Does estrogen conqueror or have priority over thyroid hormones naturally? I ve heard thyroid is the master hormone so why does estrogen win in my bloodstream over thyroid hormones?

[diogenes Remembering]

Oestrogens do compete with thyroid hormones. However what they seem to do is as follows: Early in pregnancy, the human growth hormone levels rise to temporarily enormous levels, and slightly influence the TSH effect on the thyroid. Afterwards, later on in pregnancy, oestrogens now coming from the baby open up mother's cells so that thyroid hormones can more easily enter and do their job. But to counterbalance this the level of FT4 is lowered so that the net input is the same for the mother. The effect is to give the mother significantly greater amounts of circulating T4 as a store, in case the baby needs it.

[birkie]

Hi Angelic69

I'm afraid levothyroxin didn't agree with me I am lactose intorlent it took my endo and gp 7/8 months to discover this.. 😠 But I can remember asking my endo about female hormones in conjunction with taking levothyroxin as their all hormones here's what she said. "I'm not concerned about FSH as it's nothing to do with your thyroid hormone they have no affect on each other" 🤔 really!!! Anyway she has never taken any bloods to check how my FSH levels are even though I'm 58 years of age I started the menupause at 43 proven by a blood test.

Its nonsense to say hormones have no affect on each other certain endos/GPS have no idea how hormones/thyroid works, its best to do your own research then pass it on to them.. 👍

[helvella Administrator Thyroid UK in reply to birkie]

Do you realise that you can get lactose-free levothyroxine?

[birkie in reply to helvella]

Hi helvella ❤️

Yes I know you can get T4 lactose free and because my bloods are not good I thought maby a combination might help me but unfortunately my parathyroid glands have Gone overactive just had a radioactive scan today.. Waiting on app for parathyroid specialist.. So I think my endo has halted everything but my bloods show I need a increase in T3 but I did it myself been on them 3 months, only increased in this last few weeks running out asked for my T3 prescription early but not received it yet😠 jees it's a battle in its self thyroid illness without battling to get the right amount of medication 😠😠😠

[helvella Administrator Thyroid UK in reply to birkie]

I hope that comes soon - it's bad enough having thyroid issues without parathyroid as well.

All the best.

[Angelic69 in reply to birkie]

When i was diagnosed the GP at the surgery, not my usual GP, said it was Hashis. When i told my regular GP she asked who told me that and that it wasn't hashis?

I to did not get on with Levo and asked for a different med and was told there is only levo? despite feeling awful and bearly able to open my eyes?

Strange that when i visited this site i was told about lots of different thyroid medications?

Also i couldn't get over the fact that prior to commencing thyroid medications we are supposed to have our adrenals check? Dont know anyone whose adrenal functions were even mentioned by the GP. Im guessing they think we wouldn't understand what adrenals are?

My GP also said she had checked my estrogen/progesterone levels and said nothing more. I asked at a later date for result of that particular test and was told also it had never been checked?

I really do want to trust the medical profession but find it very difficult after that.

Do you take anything instead of levo?

How is your menopause health? Do you take anything?

[birkie in reply to Angelic69]

Hi Angelic69❤️

First of all I find it absolutely annoying that gps/endos really don't want to help thyroid suffers.. My first diagnosis I had in 2004 was hyperparathiyroidism nothing was done I've been ill since then and was later diagnosed with ME/fibro. Move on to 2015 till 2018 I had awful symptoms of tremors, palpitations, sweating, hyper all the time gp diagnosed menupause eventho I started going through it at 43..so from 2015 to 2018 I suffered... Then another Dr saw me and diagnosed me on the spot she could clearly see I was suffering but my normal gp saw nothing,, bloods done that day came bk the next I had hyperthyroidism(overactive thyroid glands).. Turned out to be graves disease 😠.. I'm now on T3 only on my 4th month only on 20mg prescribed my endo didn't up my dose and by my blood results I clearly needed it uped so I did it my self in 5gm incriments I'm on 30mg now, unfortunately my parathyroid glands have Gone overactive again😭 just had a radioactive scan today! I see a specialist in parathyroid disease in Newcastle soon so I think my endo has decided not to up the meds because of this.. So just Gota wait now😭 I can't take HRT I have trouble with my blood clotting was taken of the contraceptive pill because of the thrombosis 😭.. I'm a walking mess..

I've found since being diagnosed with thyroid illness you have to do a lot of research yourself because theirs a lot the endo/ gp won't tell you.. Probably because they don't even know arm yourself with info.. Don't let a doctor or specialist bully you.. Mine is a bully but I now look at him and say " your here to help me now do your job"..

I hope you get sorted post blood results on here theirs some great people who can guide you.. ❤️❤️

[Angelic69 in reply to birkie]

Im sorry you also feel annoyed, i was handed a printout from web md by the GP who diagnosed me which covered the basics like types of thyroid diseases and symptoms of the disease.

What was wrong with your gland for a diagnosis of hyperparathyroidism? Did they explain anything at all after they diagnosed you and why they chose to do nothing?

What was your TSH at that point?

How did your GP diagnose ME and Fibro? bloods or physical symptoms?

Tremors? I've not seen tremors anywhere listed as a side effect of the menopause and hyper as in hyper active or hyperthyroid?

Prior to your hyperthyroidism and graves diagnoses but after your hyperparathyroidism diagnosis did you alter your diet, was you able to reduce your stressors,was you offered any advice on how to prevent further damage to your gland? Im so sorry that you got diagnosed with graves and if you are taking T3 did you have your gland removed?

If you are now hyper is that due to you uping your own dose? If so only take what was prescibed.

What issue do you have with blood clotting, are you on medications for this? what do you take?

Im sure you not walking mess but work in progress maybe.

I do feel for GPs as they are pushed for time, there are a huge amount of sick people and they also boung by regulations which must make their job very difficult and i guess it that situation it would be easy to turn on autopilot. I will try not to let GPs bully me and also i will try to do my part in my health. I dont think i could ever say your here to help do your job as i susspect i would be taken of the list, LOL.

If and when i get results i will most definately post them here as yes you are so right there is a lot of wonderful people here and willing to help. xx Good luck to you.

[birkie in reply to Angelic69]

Hi Angelic69

😊 No I don't say that to his face just think it when he tries to fob me off... 😊 Actually the parathyroid glands have nothing to do with the thyroid they are only neighbours strange as it sounds!! First time they waited 6 wks then did more bloods came bk as normal, but if the parathyroid glands go overactive and you have a high calcium level well that's hyperparathiyroidism!!that's what my results showed, But my gp just left me, no more bloods.. He should have done my bloods again to be sure, after getting nowhere with him I moved surgerys had to start all over again! As I said I knew nothing about parathyroid illness or thyroid illness until I put my symptoms in to Google all my symptoms pointed to hyperthyroidism but gp dismissed it as the menupause 😠 I fought with him from 2015 to 2018 when I was eventually diagnosed it was to late tho my thyroid was toxic I went in to thyroid storm it was removed may last year😩 first hyperparathiyroidism doesn't make you hyper that's hyperthyroidism 👍 so I'm not hyper... My bones have always hurt as do my muscles I'm always passing kidney stones that's a build up of calcium in the body hyperparathiyroidism causes high calcium they are their for calcium regulation in the body if they go overactive they can over produce calcium causing brittle bones(osteoporosis) which I have!! The jigsaw puzzle is coming together I think because my gp/endo didn't review or follow up on my hyperparathiyroidism I've been slowly spewing calcium in to my body.. 😠 My blood clotting was found out when I went blind in my right eye I had a large clot on my retina.. Which damaged the sight😔 so I was taken off the contraceptive pill and told I would not be able to take HRT... 😩 I agree with you on doctors being pushed for time ect but when you present yourself to the same gp for over 3 years and you've lost 3 stone in weight I think he should take notice.. ONE important note before I head for bed... Always ask for a print out of your blood results 👍 wish I'd done that in 2004 I've just received my medical records and their they are in black and white... High parathyroid /high calcium... 👍

Good luck with your journey ♥️

[Angelic69 in reply to birkie]

How do they treat hyperparathyroid?

I've just asked my GP surgery access to my medical records, how will i receive them?

[birkie in reply to Angelic69]

Hi Angelic69♥️

The normal way is to scan the parathyroid glands which I had yesterday this scan looks for the gland or glands that are hot this refers to a swelling or odema.. That's the offending gland or glands the swelling means the gland or glands are over producing parathyroid hormone.. This inturn can mean over production in calcium. Normally the procedure is to remove the offending gland or glands... Surgery..

I received any thing like head scans, x rays ect on my tablet then received the rest via paperwork..

Hope this helps.. ♥️

[Angelic69 in reply to birkie]

Yes that information has helped, thanks.

Wouldnt anti inflammories take away the swelling and return the gland to normal function, what caused it to swell? have they identified anything as a root cause? Ive just read the implications of this disease and about how estrogen would be benefit people with this condition, surely there is a way around your blood clotting problems to allow you to take some estrogen. Ive also read not to take any calcium supplements whilst the gland is malfunctioning as it can create a problem within the arteries, would furring of the arteries cause the clots?

[birkie in reply to Angelic69]

Hi

Well I do have calcification of the aterys in my heart and in the brain although they are minimal according to the specialists!! I can't take anti inflammatory drugs as my stomach and bowels have a bad reaction to them I was the same with the anti thiyroid drugs my body wouldn't accept them I just vomited them bk.. Yes you should not take any calcium supplements or food high in calcium when you have this condition.. But if its not treated you can have All sorts of problems.. Ostio, kidney stones, brittle bones, calcification of joints, problems with teeth all of which I have.. 😢 My clot was diagnosed in the 90s well before I was diagnosed with hyperparathiyroidism (2004) so I never found out why this happened specialist just said its one of those mysterys. 🤔

[Angelic69 in reply to birkie]

Did you crave cheese by any chance when all this was going on and prior to diagnosis?

I don't like anti inflammatories either they cause me terrible stomach pains. Have you tried serrapeptase it slightly thins the blood and is a anti inflammatory too, i have used it for my joint pains and it works very well with no stomach pains at all. It can be a bit pricey but it does the trick. I also do not get on with my thyroid meds they turn me into a zombie.

Its a good job they did not prescribe you the tablets I'm on D3 which has tons of calcium in, hope they haven't missed any parathyroid issue here.

My dentist prescribed me floride as i had tiny holes in my teeth, I'm pretty sure if my teeth are like that my bones are too. I get terrible back pain most days to some degree, all they say is ware and tare, x rays always come back no problems found never been offered a dex scan despite my continued pain. Have complained about pain in groan too but no actions taken? Crazy stuff.

How can it be a mystery if he specialises in those things? Seriously.

[birkie in reply to Angelic69]

Hi

Yes like you I have holes in my teeth and I've lost around 5 so far😩 I've asked my endo for a bone density scan but received no reply! I have terrible bone pain I also have arthritis but have since found out through my medical records it's calcification arthritis of the joints! Yeah the old wear n tear diagnosis!! Easy for them to classify this as it requires no further action.. I've asked my gp several times for a painkiller for the bone pain I'm on duloxetine 40mg..ive just recently discovered these tables are for depression 😵 antidepressants!! I just want a tablet to ease my pain I'm not depressed... So I will be going back to speek to someone about being given these as my consultant said they were for pain.. No wonder I've not felt any relief from them.. I get free prescriptions so my gp will give me the cheepest drugs he can really bad practice I think!!

♥️

[Angelic69 in reply to birkie]

Im guessing they are not bothering to scan as they already know no doubts?

Try serrapeptase the higher strength if you have a lot of pain it takes a few days to kick in or in did for me. People use it for arthritis pains it came highly recommended.

I was on an antipsychotic, olanzapine, they switched it to a cheaper one which gave me heart palps, They took olanzapine off my repeats and i asked them to put it back but it was denied. Turns out the new drug was pound or so cheaper?

I was prescribed olanzapine because the levothyroxine gave me serious side effects, increased irritation and stress fight or flight continusly couldn't function at all, i also had tachycardia which resulted in surgery, vision impairments, weight gain, seriously low mood, got arrested twice because i was freaking out in public places due to stress. I think and have always thought that levo reduced my estrogen levels which resulted in those symptoms.

The new drug they gave affected my heart? didn't understand was convinced they were trying to do me in so to speak.

[birkie in reply to Angelic69]

Hi

Sorry fogot to say I'm lactose intolerant so no dairy for me😢 although I have craved salty things don't know why?? I can tell you I've never felt so well as when I was on steroids, I was on them for 6 months after my diagnosis of colitis.. I had very little pain in the joints my flare ups were none exsistant my bowles were great I felt fantastic I had energy felt great!! 😀 I wanted to stay on them but was told I needed to wean myself of them and as I did all the pain returned the fatigue the felling of being unwell back to hell!!! 😠

[Angelic69 in reply to birkie]

When i was admitted a while back after starting levothyroxine the specialist said after my CT scan that i needed to go on steriods and antibiotics, he was overuled by a none specialist who prescribed statins which took me back into the A and E on several occasions with severe breathing difficulties and heart issues. When i was released from the hospital i went to pick up my son who was staying at my daughters whilst i was in hospitaland i collapsed with shortness of breathe, that was within an hour of being released?

My GP was really pissed off at me because i had visited the A and E on two occaisons and someone had contacted her as to why i had, had ongoing issues, i dont know the full conversation but she was not happy and told me not to go again? She did know the issues i was having with my meds as i continually told her and it always seemed to be out of hours my breathing and palps became a problem and the walk to the A and E took my mind of the fact i was struggling to breathe. I couldn't take the statins for that reason. My then GP tried me on several types, all which had adverse effects. I saw another GP who prescribed ezetrol which worked and i had no adverse side effects, they later changed it to Ezetimibe which caused the same adverse affect as the statins and so i couldn't use it. I took omega seed mix instead which reduce my bad cholesterol naturally.

The point i started to make was i always feel better after a dose of antibiotics and always wondered about the specialist and what he had found to want to prescribe them to me? He also asked for a re scan but the hospital refused to scan again.

On that admittence to the hospital a nurse gave me four whits tablets and shortly after i was feeling much better, but i don't know what i was given. Whatever it was my brain fog and cloudy vision cleared up and i felt like i did mentally prior to levo.

[birkie in reply to Angelic69]

Hi ❤️

I can't take antibiotics.. I was rushed to hospital in 2015 bleeding from my back passage with tremendous pain diahreea and vomiting.. My consultant put me on introvenus antibiotics I was still the same after 5 days to which he became concerned as I was not recovering.. At on stage the nurse came to change my introvenus bag for another round of antibiotics!! Anyway they had an emergency and my bag was not changed I started to feel better my sickness stopped my pain eased.. I actually had some soup!! Then the nurse realised my bag had not been changed she did it and within 10.. 20 minutes I was vomiting and had diarrhea this continued I spoke to the consultant and explained my symptoms when I was off the antibiotics. He switched to another antibiotic but I continued to be sick after 5 attempts he took me of the antibiotics all together 5 days later I went home with a diagnosis of colitis and steroids the steroids only worked when I stopped vomiting as I couldn't stomach them in hospital but they were fantastic 👍 you sound like you've gone through hell!! How are you feeling now.. ❤️

[Angelic69 in reply to birkie]

Scary episode i would have been terrified.

Can i ask about your breathing and how your throat felt before your surgery, I'm a bit worried because i feel really tight around my throat like someone is throttling me and it sometimes feels hard to breathe. After hearing your story i worried that they have missed things with my thyroid health as i have always had on going problems on my medications. My calcium is high normal?

[birkie in reply to Angelic69]

Hi

I did have problems with swollowing and some times it felt like swolen glands.. My medication has not done much for me at all... The parathyroid specialist rang me back saying he thinks taking T3 alone is no good neither is a combination of T3/ T4.. He thinks T4 is the best drug for thyroid illness.. I'm not really sure of this as every person is diffrent and certain medication can have very different affects on people.. He doesn't see this!! He has asked me to go back on T4 lactose free.. As I'm not feeling any better I will give it a go because the last time I was on it I had very loose bowels and inflammation.. Because the one I had had lactose in it.. He even said some people never really recover from thyroid illness.. He hasn't really given me confidence in getting to grips with this condition 🙄.. But he is taking over as my specialist.. You really have to fight to get GPS and endos to listen to you... He even said in all cases of patients who go to see their gp, the gp will interupt the patient after 20 seconds.. He says that's not long enough for a gp to get a picture of how the patients symptoms are and what they might have!!! That's true as mine did this to me and still does!! So you have to make them listen to you... Hard as that is... 🙄🙄

[Angelic69 in reply to birkie]

My throat issue for instanceand feeling i can not breathe, GP felt neck and said its ok? Nurse at A and E you don't need to see a doctor your fine? well how come my throat is always tight and i can not get enough air?Another time i looked like a maniac, red swollen eyes, bulging and feeling over medicated, he said bloods are fine? I was walking around like a zombie, oh your fine? Im not fine at all if i was fine why am i here and why is my mind and body disconnected since i started levo?

T4 alone for me was horrendous, whether its an underlying issue that's not being address that is exaggerated by levo within me or something else which has occurred since taking levo the doctors are not saying? Since i started levo i can not hold eye contact with my family as my eyes go weird if i do and feel agitated all the time which is not fine.

Personally i feel before i even entre the GPs office he has already made his mind up and just listens to the waffle with no intentions of further action for on going issues.

Constipation ongoing which could be a root cause if I'm not ridding waste products which could be why imfeeling ill on levo but they don't check despite it being obvious that something is not right by really looking at me? Half the issue is he doesn't know me and doesn't know me or how i looked prior to levo and thinks this is normal? I took a picture of when i was bulgy eyed and over medicated and showed the GP at the walk in centre and said this was a month ago and this is today, tell me nothing is wrong? my eyes were fixed and starry like a lunatic and i know it was to much T4 which i personally believe my body is building up and not efficiently being excreted. They just say oh everything is fine? Quacks are as mad as hatters.

[birkie in reply to Angelic69]

Hi

I agree with you I've found the same was very ill since 2015 it took till 2018 to diagnose me and that was only because I went in to thyroid storm he could have killed me!! If your bloods are fine we'll so are you is their motto.. That's not the case tho.. I bet you if they had these symptoms they wouldn't go just by what their bloods say, they would take in to account their symptoms to.. I do also think some GPS and specialist do have a god complex.. They should be made to account when they misdiagnosed or fail to diagnose patients... We're the ones who suffer day after day not them. 😠😠😠😠😠

[Angelic69 in reply to birkie]

I dont think NHS doctors are freemen, they are bought by their wage to do as they are told by the hand that feds.

[Angelic69 in reply to birkie]

Hi Birkie, In hyperparathyroid is it the levels of calcium in the blood which is the issue? or where the calcium is coming from? Is hyperparathyroid autoimmune?

[birkie in reply to Angelic69]

Hi

Generally it's measured by both the level of parathyroid hormones and calcium together but their are cases known where the parathyroid is raised but the calcium is borderline this is thought to be about 20% of patients this condition is called normocalcemic primary hyperparathiyroidism.. It can also be the other way around being a high calcium level with a normal PTH level. Unfortunately this condition is over looked frequently by GPS and endos as they only look for both high levels.. So I'm those cases like mine in 2004 you go untreated!! That's an interesting thing about it being autoimmune because I asked my endo that very thing I said "could I be attacking my parathyroid glands" seeing as I have 3 auto immune illnesses to start with.. Her answer" no it's impossible.".. Well how come I attacked my thyroid gland(graves is an auto immune condition) why not the parathyroid? Having an auto immune antibodies in your system surely means you can attack any part of your body... 🤔

❤️

[Angelic69 in reply to birkie]

When GPs order routine tests do they check for PTH, i don't remember seeing that on any of my test results?, would they only check if calcium is high? I can not believe they left you like that, I'm so sorry. After reading a little about the condition its a major disabler. Can you get about ok to do your daily jobs and things. I hear the spine is targetted, very nasty disease.

[birkie in reply to Angelic69]

Hi

When GPS do blood tests they do as little as possible money comes in to this... When I was ill from 2015/2018(diagnosis of hyperthyroidism) my gp did some blood tests only after I insisted he did.. But he never did any thyroid bloods.. From what I can see in my records he did full blood panel which shows white /red cell count, I'm sure if they look OK doctors say your ok😠 you must have a full thyroid count... TSH, T3, T4, anti body test.. Also very important is mineral and vitamin tests. The person on here I go to is slowdragon she is fantastic at telling you the right tests for diagnosing thyroid conditions and what kind of thyroid condition you might have.. Calcium is tested if you have a urine problem.. Sometimes calcium can show up in urine as well as bloody but it depends on the level.. Some people can have a medium level or high level and feel no affects some can have a borderline or slightly raised level and feel awful.. This is where the problem starts because if the level is slightly raised gp/endos do a wait and see approach as they did with me this is a unholy mistake if your gp does not do bloods every 6wks to check your levels then you go undiagnosed!!

I'm now disabled and cannot work I worked for Estee Lauder beauty I loved it but could no longer stand or function to allow me to work 😔😔

[Angelic69 in reply to birkie]

Didnt you say you were taking T3? forgive me if i remember incorrectly?

[birkie in reply to Angelic69]

Hi

Yes on T3 only... I've just spoken to the parathyroid specialist at Newcastle he is concerned about a calcium level in Feb 2019 just before my thyroidectomy he said it was off the scale and should have been investigated then.. He is also concerned about my diagnosis in 2004 👍 his calling me bk later on..

As for my endo saying FSH has nothing to do with The endocrinology system that's wrong as the pitruitry gland(the master gland produces both FSH, thyroid hormones... But I'm unsure if the parathyroid gland are stimulated by the pitruitry gland.. 🤔

[Angelic69 in reply to birkie]

If your GP thought your intially diagnosis was menopause then they should have known your estrogen would be low and if estrogen is low surely that would create high calcium normal PTH? Very strange that they did not make that connection.

If you had low estrogen at that point that would account for your normal PTH if estrogen increases the PTH and yours could have been potentially low.

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/335....

As for the auto immune response this may be of some help.

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/380...

[Angelic69 in reply to birkie]

Ive just read that estrogen therapy is sometimes used for hypercalcemia, not sure then if estrogen controls the production of the PTH? Im confused a bit did you say you had high calcium low PTH? And estrogen increases the PTH.

[Angelic69]

Has the cancer now gone? are you in remission? or do you have to take them forever? Could you explain to me what you mean by converse wasn't true? Sorry I'm still learning.

[Angelic69]

Im not sure? How much do you take? What is your TSH? what symptoms were you experiencing at the time and or now?

[Angelic69]

When i first started HRT i got really bad calf pain and couldn't walk too good, i thought it was a clot but GP said it wasn't. After a few months the calf pain went but i felt really aggressive i didn't realise i was taking testosterone derived progestin. I carried on taking my HRT but after seven months i had serious issues with the pains and weakness returning to my hands and elbow joints and then massive hair loss. I discovered the risk of the TBG and thought that was the problem and stopped HRT. After you made the comment about your thyroid medication not being altered and wasn't that strange it made think if my symptoms were due to TBG why isn't my FT3, FT4, lower? as my FT4, FT3 was at a higher level than at times when i had no joint and hand pains and hair loss? I can not make sense of it either?