What do you weathered NDT/T3 takers think about taking tiny doses of NDT at very regular intervals, eg. 1/4 grain every hour.
update: I tried doing this this morning and I still haven’t managed to get out of bed.
NDT multiple, tiny doses: What do you weathered... - Thyroid UK
NDT multiple, tiny doses
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•
Relentlessness,
Perfect if that's the only way you can tolerate.
A quick observation tells me you are under medicated with high RT3 and anxiety issues. T’is the only way but ensure to support the adrenals in other ways and investigate why you can't take 'normal' amounts of thyroid hormone.
• in reply toradd
Yes, I am getting adrenals test next week via saliva and blood. I also ordered some Seriphos to see if that will change things. Today I noticed that I took my ndt (half) and I became anxious about 3 hours after taking it. I wondered if the anxiety is coming from the t3 dropping in the blood, as i am still so under medicated, I wondered if this could be why I become anxious a few hours after ingestion. I decided to take another half grain as soon as I became anxious and I have been very calm all evening.
radd• in reply to
Relentlesssearch,
Great, and Seriphos seems to be flavour of the month atm. I've tried most in the area of adrenal supports but not this one, and if it works for you, go with it.
There have been members who have been so unable to tolerate the required T3 amounts, they have taken tiny amounts on the end of the finger that became known as the 'Speck of Dust' dose.
Thyroid hormones are essential and we do what we have to do in order to tolerate a sufficient amount. There is nothing worse than knowing you need it to get better but not being able to tolerate it!
What still hasn't been considered is the why thyroid hormones are so difficult to tolerate? What are your iron nd nutrient levels?
• in reply toradd
I agree with you very much. There is a lot of discussion about adrenals but I can’t find any scientific papers clearly explaining the relationship between thyroid and adrenals. Do you have low or high cortisol?
Strangely for me I have never had issues tolerating t4 alone or t3 alone, they just never helped my symptoms.
Ndt is the first medication I have ever taken where suddenly I feel the beginnings of truly being well. But it’s interspersed with dreadful anxiety episodes. I don’t know my iron or D etc. i should get them tested. I take a very comprehensive supplement bespoke off the back of an OAT.
I am a bit worried NDT will give me psychosis… did it give you psychosis?
radd• in reply to
Ha, read my profile!!
Yes, you should get iron & Vit D tested as they are fundamental basics. What bespoke supplement are you taking?
• in reply toradd
Yes I read your whole profile. I found it very intriguing, and i felt a lot of compassion for you, you have been through so much.
I need to have them checked... I know. I’m on the ray peat diet so iron isn’t encouraged, not sure what to make of that one. He also doesn’t like synthetic Vit D either so I think I’m putting it off as I don’t know what id do with low results.
I must go to sleep but I’ll post my supps in the AM. Nunight x
Hi Radd, wow! I just read your profile. What a brave, smart and tenacious lady you are! Thank you for sharing your insights. I really appreciate it. I saw you just added a bit of T4. I’ve just done that too. I’m on NDT and my T3 is great 90% through range, but my T4 is only 40% and I’m getting really fatigued again and also anxious and miserable.
I’m on 3.25 grains, I dropped down from 3.5 and added 25mcg of Levo.
I’d be keen to hear you experiences with that please?
Thank you
Why did you introduce levo if you felt good on 3.5gr. How do you take the hormones?
I was getting fatigued and anxious on 3.5 grains. Given my bloods I thought a little more T4 would be good
Could the anxiety have been caused by your FT3 being so high. I ask because anxiety creeps in for me if I’m over about 75% through the range
Currently FT4 is very low but I feel fine. I’m nevertheless trying to raise it just to see what that would feel like
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If you take it like this, when you eat. You need the intestine to be empty for the best possible absorption.
• in reply toadin
Yea that’s a good point, I’ve factored that in. It’s not much of an issue now as my dose is only 1.25 grains but as I build the dose it’ll get trickier for sure but I think I’ll be able to do it (might need to add or minus half an hour here and there)
I think a 1/4 grain every hour would be an excessive dose for anyone. Initially I only needed 1 and 1/4 grains when fully titrated so that’s only 3 hours of doses but there are another 9 hours left if you are doing it over 12 hours when awake. I only started on a 1/4 grain, you simply couldn’t physically divide that by 12. You would need to take very tiny amounts per hour to do it the way you suggest, two or three smaller doses a day is more usual, I’d think because it becomes difficult if not impossible to cut the grains into any smaller bits. I find teeth are the best cutting devices when it’s becoming very small. An 1/8 is doable but a 1/16th? You might just manage it….anything smaller I can’t see it’s possible.
You must go very slowly at first and increases must be small and sustained for some time before further increases are tried. Have a look at this guide and see if that is helpful:
tpauk.com/main/article/trea...
I was in a bad way but improved a lot even on a very small initial dose of NDT. I didn’t address vitamins adrenals etc first it just all seemed to rectify by itself as time went on and I got to the correct dose. I should think it’s a good idea to get vitamins optimal but I was desperate and lack of T3 was my underlying problem causing everything else.
• in reply toTSH110
Yes sorry, I should have said I am on 1.25 grains, and had envisaged leaving 2 hr gaps for meals, so over a 12 hr period that would put me on 2 grains total (titrated up to slowly over time).
I have tried it this morning and I couldn’t get out of bed! I did 1/4 at 6, 1/4 at 7 and 1/4 at 8. My depression/low motivation just becomes very heavy with that low of a dose, I think I need a higher dose to spark the cascade of ATP etc.
At the moment (normally) I am taking 0.75 in AM and 0.5 at lunch. It’s weird - somethings are really improving (I had perfect bowel yday, and my mood is going up to places it hasn’t been for decades) but I am agitated and I have lots of hypo sx like poor memory, clumsiness etc. I’m hoping this will all resolve with time but I’m worried my rt3 is just getting higher and higher the more I increase and it’s keeping me hypo.
Did your rt3 resolve with time (if it was ever a problem)?
TSH110• in reply to
I had a period of getting anxiety and panic like feelings when I went from 1/4 to 1/2 a grain but I just split the dose and took it well apart and it was ok again. I did a split dose for about two years but found it made no difference if I took one dose a day or two smaller ones so I take one dose a day now. After some years I found I needed to increase the dose - no idea why and have had to bump it up a bit more and I take 2 grains a day now. I feel fine on it.
It sounds like some things are resolving more quickly than others so until you feel properly better you will need further increase/s in dose. I just suddenly felt completely normal again and stopped on that dose. I never even overshot the sweet point, I just knew it was right. The guide I linked to has very helpful advice on getting to the right dose. Deffo have a look at it.
I did all my dosing by how I felt like they did in the old days when everyone took NDT so no idea what my reverse t 3 was doing but it was clearly very good for me 🤣🤣🤣
• in reply toTSH110
Hi - Thanks so much for sending the link to that article, it's so nice to read something so straight forward and clear! Also reassuring that it's normal to feel more hypo at times according to this website. Thanks!
TSH110• in reply to
I found it really helpful on things like that I presume they used the method GP’s did before blood tests came along to get the correct dose of NDT. People felt well on higher equivalent doses than are given today with Levothyroxine, a double whammy - only one hormone and less of it to do the job of two! How daft can these white coats get? Do they swap their brains for a uniform when they start work? One wonders
• in reply toTSH110
I know… independent thought just leaves 😔
I haven't tried this given the issues of being unable to eat before and after for a certain amount of time and having to take it away from certain supplements rather than risk the non-absorption of the NDT. (take 1 hour before eating or 2 hours after eating) so I take mine in two doses, one upon waking and the other mid-afternoon to reflect the times that natural surges of thyroid hormone supposedly would take place in the body under normal circumstances. I find those two difficult enough to manage as I am not good at eating at the regular times required!
• in reply toNiishaC
Thanks for your message! Do you have any articles you can link about the body’s natural thyroid hormone surge?
When I first started on NDT I struggled alot, and found that if diluted 30mg in a water bottle and sipped it through the day. Once the NDT fixed my adrenals I was able to take fuller and fuller doses. I now take 60mg in the morning and 60mg at night.
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