prescription NDT vs Thai NDT

I'd like to ask everyone with experience of various NDT brands the following question:

If someone is happy on Thai NDT (no hypo symptoms, losing weight, feeling fine), would there be any reason at all to switch to an "approved" brand name drug such as Erfa, Armour, or WP/Nature-Throid? I know most mainstream doctors would claim Thai NDT is unsafe as (in their opinion) most drugs are unsafe that have not been approved by the FDA or the EMSA but, just between patients...is the general opinion that Thai NDT is safe (there is no doubt it's more cost-effective than prescription NDT drugs available in North America and Europe...)?

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  • personally i think the majority of big pharma drugs are unsafe if you actually read the patient info leaflet and side effects

    my lot have all been on thyroid-s for several years now without problems they could not dream of buying armour especially now that Carney has trashed the pound

  • Thank you, that is kind of what I was hoping to hear...! Because I have tried most so called "approved" NDT drugs in recent years, at astronomical cost, I might add; yet, I have not done better on any of them compared to Thyroid-S...the latter at only of a fraction of the cost of so called "approved" NDT drugs...

    Your post gave me hope and encouraged me to stop worrying about what "everyone" says and thinks, and to start listening to my own body...and the signs that it's sending to me!

    I am beginning to wonder if Thyroid-S is the closest thing to "old" (pre-reformulation) Armour which, unfortunately, I never got a chance to try...but what I do like about Thyroid-S is that it seems to be released slowly, yet steadily, into the bloodstream over a 24 h period, making me feel much less jittery than on many other drugs containing T3..

  • No, stick to what makes you feel ok. Do not be tempted to change, tell your doctor you are fine as you are and if you must keep repeating it till the doctor backs down.

  • Hi, I have been hypo since the mid-nineties and even lived thru the Armour reformulation/shortage. Turned to Erfa during that time and was quite happy with Erfa until that too changed. I then tried the Thai thyroid brands and the various prescription brands during that time. I really liked NP by Acella and WP by RLC Labs and now take WP (easier to get).

    Point being.... taking all those brands and types of NDT, some were fantastic and some were awful for me.... for me personally. We are all so different and react differently to those brands, whether they are on prescription or not.

    If the Thai brand suits you and you are happy with it and you feel good, celebrate and count your blessings. Many, many folks take the Thai brands with good results.

  • Phoenix23002,

    Is it your opinion that Erfa changed for the worse and is still not working as well as it used to? The company vigorously denies any reformulation, which means any (unintended) change must have occurred when production switched from Belgium to Spain.

  • Just my opinion but.... after Armour reformulated, I ordered Erfa from a Canadian pharmacy and it seemed to be just like the old original Armour. After a few years, I then got a bottle of Erfa from the pharmacy and the pills were shiny coated, spotty and didn't dissolve or split like the old Erfa. I tried them for a few weeks and just got dizzier and more lousy feeling. There is much conversation about the 'new' Erfa (mfg in Spain) compared to the 'old' Erfa on the STTM website. Some have done just fine on the 'new' Erfa but a lot (like me) simply can't take it and don't seem to utilize or absorb it as well as we should.

  • Interesting...I am asking because in Belgium, where I get my thyroid meds, all pharmacies carrying NDT seem to have switched from Armour to Erfa...one pharmacist even told me nobody wants Armour anymore since it tripled in price last year. So, now, I have to choose between Erfa (maybe not as expensive as Armour, but still much more expensive than Thai NDT) and Thai NDT...thanks for confirming my suspicions regarding Erfa, it really does seem something changed when production was moved...and all three brands of Thai NDT seem fine, so I guess it's just a matter of personal preference...

  • I tried the Thai brands except didn't try Tman. Thiroyd suited better than thyroid S but neither really did the trick for me. Some reviewers say that Tman seems to be more like the old Armour and they are getting good results. But.... you know how it is. You just have to try different NDTs and see which ones suit you.

    One poster on the STTM site said that when he finely crushed his Erfa tabs and let the powder dissolve in his mouth, the 'new' Erfa worked just fine for him whereas if he left it solid, he got bad results and hypo symptoms returning. Just a thought.

  • OK, thanks for the tip! That sounds like how many started taking Armour after it was reformulated...that is, crushing/chewing the pills up before swallowing seems to have done the trick. So, you never know, you just have to keep trying until you find out what works for you.

    But, if "new" Erfa only worked after being chewed up for this person, that could mean cellulose was indeed added to it...after all, after cellulose was increased in the Armour pills, many could only make Armour work by chewing it up (STTM recommends chewing both Armour and Naturethroid up because of the increased cellulose content). But, if cellulose was indeed added to Erfa, why would the manufacturer not admit it...after all, it's not a crime to reformulate a drug...?!

  • anna, ditto... about folks having to also chew or crush up the 'new' Armour. That microcrystalline/cellulose crappola they are putting in medications seems to be the culprit and common denominator to absorption problems

    As for why the mfgs won't admit changing the formulation?? No clue. Maybe different wholesale suppliers etc. Canada sure has had enough complaints from users but they swear no difference even though even the appearance of the 'new' Erfa has changed compared to the old, original Erfa.

  • If you are patient enough to wait for the important information (it takes him some time to get there), this guy seems to be implying that both Thyroid-S and Erfa were reformulated in a way similar to Armour Thyroid, which is why he now prefers Thiroyd (and I guess TR TMan is very much like Thiroyd in that respect, but maybe the latter was not even around when this video was made):

    But, honestly, if they are fooling around with inactive ingredients all the time, what guarantees do we have that won't happen to other brands in the future as well....? After all, something happened to Erfa after Armour was reformulated, and now, this guy seems to be implying that Thyroid-S was also reformulated...it also seems Naturethroid was reformulated shortly after Armour, and in a similar (and not good) way...how do we know this won't happen in the future to NP or WP Thyroid as well...or Thiroyd/TR TMan?!

  • anna... we have absolutely no guarantees or assurances that these products won't be 'messed with' in the future. We have to or... are forced to depend upon the ethics of the various companies and manufacturers. Unfortunately, morality and ethics are considered old-fashioned concepts nowadays. All we can do is to stay vigilant and share and support one another.

  • I do not think that NDT is in fact a drug but an hormone!

  • Ruthi has been taking (Thai) Thyroid-S for about 15 years, I think. She's still with us, and still happy with Thyroid-S as far as I know.

  • Yes, I remember reading about that recently...hopefully, Ruthi will agree to update us on how she is doing on Thyroid-S...!

  • I'm so confused, as per usual with all of this.., I've been going through all the info all the lovely people on here have given me and I'd decided on getting my boyfriend Erfa, as the price is kinda ok but main thing is it doesn't have hardly any added ingredients.. we eat a mainly organic diet and avoid any processed foods and chemicals.. I looked at the ingredients of the Thai NDT's and they have so many added ingredients.. oh dear I just don't know what to do, any suggestions..? We struggle with money because tony cant work and gets no help financially.. so I'm so worried about buying the wrong thing and wasting our money.. Thanks in advance..

  • I am afraid we all react differently to different fillers in drugs, so it's not possible to say that one drug is better than another.

    However, most people on Thai NDT seem happy with it. I have taken it myself in the past and never had a problem. Of course, like you say, they do contain quite a lot of fillers (Thyroid-S being the worst culprit, I believe), and it's impossible to know how they might affect us long-term. But all three brands seem potent and well tolerated by most users. I can honestly say I have seen as many (if not more) complaints concerning so called top brands of NDT such as Erfa, Armour, and Naturethroid....!

    I recently switched to Erfa which I get from a Belgian pharmacy (my Belgian hormone doctor prescribes it). I have to say that, so far, I am doing very nicely on it. However, a lot of problems with Erfa have been reported in recent years, and it seems batches can vary in potency...I have no idea if those problems were only temporary, or if I will end up with a bad batch one day...so I have decided to never run out of Thai NDT in case Erfa just stops working. It's indeed very frustrating that the company has never admitted to any problems (as far as I know).

    I have, however, followed the advice given by a member here to chew the Erfa pills up before swallowing. They are hard and crunch and very sweet tasting , so that is not really a problem.

  • Are people using Thyroid S ok about that it contains alumminium?

  • I am not happy about the aluminium, and don't see the need for it...even if we are only talking about tiny amounts, it adds up when you have to take a drug every day for the rest of your life. As far as I know, no other NDT drug contains aluminium, so I am not sure why the manufacturer of Thyroid-S has included it...

  • Regarding T.R. Man, no one seems to know what additional ingredients are in them, I personally would not take anything without knowing what was in them.

  • What about Thiroyd, a brand many seem happy with...? There used to be a list of ingredients available on the STTM webpage, but I'm not sure it's still there or, even if it is, how accurate it is...nobody seems to know much about T.R anyway, as it has only been around for a year or so...Thyroid-S and Thiroyd have been around ever since Armour was reformulated (for the worse, according to most users) seven or eight years ago, and I have to say most reviews I've seen so far are positive...but I agree, it's worrying that complete lists of ingredients are not readily available.

    Another problem is the limited availability of so called trustworthy brands of NDT. Armour, Naturethroid, and Erfa all seem to work less well than in the past. NP and WP Thyroid seem hard to find in Europe. For many of us, Thai NDT is the only viable option...along with OTC products such as ThyroGold. But I have read so many times that porcine thyroid is preferable to bovine thyroid, as the former is closer to human chemistry than the latter...which is why I'd prefer to stay with porcine NDT, even if I have to resort to Thai versions of it, rather than switch to bovine NDT...but maybe this is just a myth, and bovine thyroid works just as well...after all, most adrenal supplements (both adrenal cortex and adrenal glandular) seem to come from cows, not pigs...?

  • Hi anna69,

    Yes I have seen Thyroid ingredients list of STTM.

    I take W.P. Thyroid which I chose because of it having only two fillers.

    I really do not know if this is right for me or not. I had a rough time raising my dose and still cannot get above 1.5 grains.

    I have said before on the forum my T3 is at a good level but my T4 keeps getting lower and lower, some say this does not matter, but as mine is well below bottom of the range, it does concern me.

    I have certainly felt worse just lately, actually since I got my last batch.

    I am at the point now were by I am thinking, do I try a different NDT or go back to levo. and add T3 so I can adjust dose, as maybe the human ratio of 10 to 1 will suit me better than the porcine ratio of 4 to 1.

  • What you describe sounds like an adrenal problem. If your cortisol levels are suboptimal, you'd have a hard time raising NDT.

    I agree with what you say about FT4 levels. Mine were at the bottom of range six months ago, and FT3 levels midrange (24 h after taking NDT). When I raised my dosage, my FT4 levels ended up midrange, but FT3 levels well out of range...that seems to be quite a common problem on NDT; that is, that it's difficult to normalise both your FTs given the fixed ratio of T4 to T3 in NDT.

    I don't feel well when my FT4 levels drop too low (meaning below 1, ref ranges for my lab: 0.7-1.5). Ideally, I need my FT4 levels to be 1.1-1.2 for complete symptom relief, along with FT3 levels close to the upper normal limit...which seems impossible on NDT. It seems I either have to accept suboptimal FT4 levels or out-of-range FT3 levels.

    The reason I've considered trying Thiroyd instead of Thyroid-S is that the T3:T4 ratio in Thiroyd is slightly different from the one in Thyroid-S. But I am doing well on Thyroid-S, so I'd hesitate to switch to another brand, also because because of the time of adjustment needed after switching...

  • Hi anna,

    Thank you for your reply, do you add T4 to your NDT dose?

  • Not presently, no, but I have been considering it as I may need slightly more T4 but not necessarily more T3...

  • my lot have taken both Armour and thyroid-s

    they do not do well on thiroid but no problem or difference on other 2

  • Interesting...! There are so many reviews claiming Armour is more or less useless after at least one, possibly two, reformulations...even if it's still working OK, the price is prohibitive, at least in Belgium (200€, ca 160 GBP, for one single bottle containing 100 3 grain pills)...

    Reallyfedup123, I take it your lot are not worried about the numerous fillers and binders in Thyroid-S...?

  • without doubt the price of Armour is now prohibitive

    as for its efficacy i think thats bunkum

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