Improvement in ferritin levels but feel even worse.

[Mugs19]

I have struggled with low iron for some time. After being contacted on here about the possible effects of taking turmeric on iron levels I decided to stop the supplement and see if my iron levels improved. I have messed this up by eating more liver than previously because I wanted to add T3 to my liquid levo. I was struggling with the idea that just being hypo was also causing my non absorption of iron from my diet. The withdrawal from turmeric has caused a huge increase in pain. I wasn't aware it was having this effect on me though I knew it was anti inflammatory. I was taking it to keep my blood thin as I can't take aspirin. On 19 May my ferritin level was 38 (10-291). I have had a full iron panel done by Medichecks since to see if dropping the turmeric has had any effect.

24 June

CRPHS 0.9(0-5)

Iron 21.6(6.6-26)

TIBC 60 umol/L (41-77)

Transferrin Saturation 36% (20-55)

Ferritin 69 ug/L (13-150)

I tried for a while to eat liver meals twice a week, but have had to lower it to once as I still can't find it palatable even with pineapple and chopped ginger and sweet and sour sauce. I was getting the same kind of pain the day after I had eaten it as I do when I take supplements. I even notice it a couple of hours after the daily pate snack.

Other results from 19 May:

Folate 14.6 (<4)

Vit D 116(50 -125)

B12 584 (211-911)

TSH 0.04(0.35-5.5)

FT3 5.8 (3.5-6.5)

FT4 22.4 (10-20)

For 2 weeks after these tests I lowered my levo from 112.6 mcg to 100 mcg. Then started to add in liothyronine. Now up to 15 mcg daily. Last week I had a day when I felt like things were improving. I have had this before on T3. I suddenly had a lot more energy and wanted to get things done instead of forcing myself to do things. It quickly evaporated by the next day. I will have an NHS blood test on 13 July and can't imagine where I can go from here. Can any of you knowledgeable people out there offer any advice and encouragement?

[humanbean]

After being contacted on here about the possible effects of taking turmeric on iron levels I decided to stop the supplement and see if my iron levels improved.

What were you told? That turmeric reduces absorption of iron? I haven't heard that before, but then I've never investigated turmeric. You could just try and take iron a few hours away from taking turmeric, or at opposite ends of the day, if you want to take both.

I was struggling with the idea that just being hypo was also causing my non absorption of iron from my diet.

Being hypothyroid reduces levels of stomach acid, making it harder for the gut to break down food into its constituent parts. You might have been better to try and improve your stomach acid levels rather than coming off the turmeric, which seems to have been having a beneficial effect.

The withdrawal from turmeric has caused a huge increase in pain.

It might be a good idea to go back on it again if it helps that much with pain.

I wasn't aware it was having this effect on me though I knew it was anti inflammatory. I was taking it to keep my blood thin as I can't take aspirin.

Do you have reason to believe that you need to thin your blood? If you need blood thinners why have they not been prescribed by your doctor?

I tried for a while to eat liver meals twice a week

This isn't a good idea - liver has a high level of vitamin A in it, and too much vitamin A is toxic. Eating liver roughly once a week should be fine. Obviously if your portions are small then the vitamin A issue is not likely to have had a massive effect.

I still can't find it palatable even with pineapple and chopped ginger and sweet and sour sauce.

I don't know what your source was for that recipe, but I would suggest ignoring it from now on! I actually like liver, but nothing would induce me to eat it with pineapple, ginger and sweet and sour sauce. The combination of flavours sounds very odd. Some people mince up liver or cut it up into small pieces and bury it in bolognaise sauce or in a stew. Other foods which contain good levels of iron are black pudding and liver paté.

.

19 May

Ferritin 38 (10-291) 10% of the way through the range

24 June

CRP HS 0.9 (0-5)

Iron 21.6 (6.6-26) 77% of the way through the range

TIBC 60 umol/L (41-77) 53% of the way through the range

Transferrin Saturation 36% (20-55)

Ferritin 69 ug/L (13-150) 41% of the way through the range

.

CRP - This is a measure of inflammation. Optimal is below 1, so yours is excellent.

Optimal results for iron and iron-related levels are given on this link :

rt3-adrenals.org/Iron_test_...

Iron - This is optimal at 55% - 70% of the way through the range, lower end of that for women. Yours is higher than that, suggesting you might have a bit too much iron.

TIBC -

• Low in range indicates lack of capacity for additional iron

• High in range indicates body's need for supplemental iron

Yours is very close to mid-range, suggesting that your TIBC is neither high nor low.

Transferrin Saturation -

• optimal is 35 to 45% with the higher end of that for men.

Your result is at the lower end of the optimal range which is very good.

Ferritin (iron stores) - Your level has risen from 10% of the way through the range to 41% of the way through the range, which is a huge increase in just a month. (It took me nearly two years to get my ferritin from low in range to mid-range).

Optimal for ferritin is roughly mid-range or slightly higher. So with the range you've given optimal would be very approximately 80 - 120, so your ferritin could go up a bit.

It is not unusual for some levels in an iron panel to suggest more iron is needed and for another to suggest someone has plenty or needs to reduce it. Consistency is quite rare I think, based on the results I've seen on this forum.

I can't see how your iron results could be the cause of you feeling worse. They are actually quite good. There is a possibility that if you eat food with a high iron content then your iron may rise proportionately more than your ferritin. I would suggest your current difficulties may be caused by you coming off your turmeric.

I would suggest that you supplement with a good quality B Complex to see if it will raise your B12 and folate which are lower than many of us like them to be.

Sometimes raising B12 and folate can actually have a good knock-on effect on iron, and will reduce serum iron while raising ferritin. But I'm making no promises.

[Mugs19 in reply to humanbean]

Thankyou very much for this detailed reply. I value the trouble you have taken to make this response so please do not think me ungrateful for arguing somewhat with some of it. I got a message from Minus on 25.5.21: Turmeric takes iron from the body and makes you anaemic. I investigated online and there is a site: https//ncbi.gov..articles.PMC6414192 - "Iron Deficiency Anaemia Due to High-Dose Turmeric - NCBI-WIH. This appears to be about ONE case, complicated by a lot of other factors, but previous studies have shown that turmeric can make mice anaemic. Of course there are other sites online quoting opinions which contradict this. Also another member has messaged me that they get great relief from pain from turmeric so I wasn't totally surprised when I had stopped taking it for a week to find my pain increasing. I decided to give it a try because weeks of eating pate every day and liver meals every week had only raised my ferritin level from 31 to 38. There are several sites stating that turmeric binds to ferritin in the gut and reduces absorption.

I am sensitive(intolerant) to many foods, medications and supplements and have had a problem supplementing iron for years. Even way back when I was pregnant, it gave me pains in my feet which I was told was gouty arthritis. It happened again when I was anaemic in 2007 and taking supplements. I have had trouble each time I have tried to supplement since. Endo suggested taking a reduced dose twice a week of ferrous sulfate200mg but even that upsets me. So I have tried to rectify it by diet. I eat plenty of folates and red meat anyway so I shouldn't have low iron in the first place, so again it looked as though turmeric might be the cause.

With regard to what you say about stomach acid levels, I have plenty of acid reflux caused by my hiatus hernia to deter me increasing my stomach acid level. Reflux like this burns the oesophagus and causes strictures which make it difficult to swallow and deliver food to the stomach. My mother died because of this at 69. The acid eroded large areas of her stomach which were all bleeding (not just one ulcer) and caused a massive gastric haemetemesis. She was successfully operated on by removing part of her stomach and the vegan nerve was split to reduce the amount of acid produced in future. She was well cared for on ICU but when moved to the ward, the nurses insisted she try to swallow huge pills which inevitable got stuck in those strictures, causing her to choke and vomit, which in turn she inhaled leading to pneumonia, which killed her.

Re the necessity to thin my bloods: in 2011 I developed angina. I only had it for two weeks ,then a stent was put in which solved the problem. Prophylactic treatment for recurrence of the problem includes taking aspirin daily. I found an article on Dr John Briffa's blog suggesting turmeric would achieve the same end without upsetting my stomach. Also if I don't take aspirin I can be given penicillin for infections, which I wouldn't be able to take if I were taking aspirin as it causes an allergic reaction if I take both together. Most doctors are unaware this can happen and think I am allergic to both, but if I take them separately I am not. Another part of the treatment is the thinners like clopidogrel. I reacted so badly to that that they told me to stop taking it. Heperin and Fragmin are almost as bad. Turmeric has kept my blood nice and thin for ten years, witnessed by when I have a blood test, they have to hold down the vein harder and longer or it carries on bleeding out.

I tried eating liver twice weekly as a short term measure only as once a week wasn't having much effect.

My liver and pineapple stir fry recipe was from a Weight Watchers group many years ago. I'm sorry you don't like the idea, but many in the group at the time, including me, found it helped a lot to make something we don't like more acceptable. My husband loves it, but he likes liver anyway.

As you say, I have had a huge rise in ferritin in a month, so as previous efforts to raise it came to nothing or very little, I was inclined to think stopping turmeric had helped to achieve this.

In the past I have tried to take various brands of B complex and those also make me ill.

Please don't think that I don't appreciate your advice and efforts to help but this is similar to what happens to me at the doctors' except I tend not to dare to argue with them as they don't take it well and get very dogmatic. Good advice for most other people but I am Mrs Abnormal, not Mrs Average or Mrs Predictable. In short I know I am a nightmare.