After having a cortisol saliva test.. my cortisol is very high from noon until 4pm...
Thinking of trying nutri adrenal capsules
Has anyone tried them and how did it go...
I also struggle to increase my T3 tablets...
But I need more t3!
My symptoms are very weird, anxiety and up and down moods throughout the day, detachment, dizziness, memory loss...
Thanks in advance ☺
Taking nutri adrenal capsules on top of high cortisol is likely to raise your cortisol levels higher than they are already.
I couldn't actually read your results they were too small.
Iv researched that they can support the adrenals and can help the thyroid medication work correctly?...
ThyroidObsessed
Nutri Adrenal is a glandular. Glandulars raise cortisol. Adaptogens lower cortisol.
You have two high cortisol levels in the middle of the day, your morning one is low, your bedtime one is anyone's guess because there's not an actual level so it could be anywhere between 0 (low) and 1.4 (high for bedtime). This really isn't the best test, two of them have zero as the low limit of range, ranges are based on healthy people, if anyone did have a level of zero they would likely be very unwell or in the morgue! Best test is one that measures both cortisol plus DHEA not just cortisol alone, this is because measuring DHEA as well helps determine stages of adrenal fatigue. Regenerus and Genova Diagnostics do the combined test.
It's difficult with mixed results like this. Take a glandular and it will most likely raise your high middle of the day levels as well as your morning one. Take an adaptogen to lower your middle of the day levels and it will most likely lower your morning one as well.
Thank you for your reply and help...So I don't suffer with fatigue at all..
I'm currently reading the doctor P book how to keep your thyroid healthy, and was reading how the adrenals affect the uptake of t3 and and I have the symptoms of adrenal issues minus the fatigue...
I don't really suffer physically its more mentally, anxiety depression severe up and down mood drops through the day, feeling of detachment...
When I finally got prescribed t3 on the NHS I had to ween myself onto them... I'm on a combo of t4 and t3.. 100mcg of levo and 5mcg of t3 a day...for about 6 months my levels were great and I felt good and happy...
But since December my levels have dropped my and tsh has risen clearly I need more t3... I was told to get my cortisol checked as the meds could be not working correctly because my adrenals are shot....
I went through a 17 year abusive relationship so I'm presuming they are not good....
ThyroidObsessed
So I don't suffer with fatigue at all..
Adrenal fatigue is not fatigue in the sense you may be thinking of.
Adrenal fatigue is depletion of the adrenal glands.
It might be worth you doing some research, a good place to start is Dr Sarah Myhill, here is one of her articles
Thank you for the information you have provided to me...After reading the great Dr Peatfield book (your thyroid and how to keep it healthy)
There is a whole chapter on adrenals and the connection between the thyroid...
It seems he says the point of actually taking Nutri adrenal even when cortisol is high is to give your adrenals a break by giving them a little cortisol so they don't have to work so hard...
This makes sense to me
I have his book too. But there is no getting away from the fact that adrenal glandulars raise cortisol.
Humanbean has given you excellent information, there's nothing I can add to it.
Whether you go ahead or not is your choice.
Yes that is true... but the whole point is that it gives u a little more cortisol which then in turn your own body will not produce as much and your adrenals get a break...Here is Dr P explaining this....
That's true. But on superficial examination your adrenals are already producing enough cortisol over all. Just adding more from an adrenal supplement is likely to make you feel worse than you already do.
Optimal results for cortisol are given in this link - see example 1 :
rt3-adrenals.org/cortisol_t...
Optimal levels
• Morning at the top of the range --- 21 with the range you've supplied
• Noon approximately 75% of the range --- 6.075 with your range
• Evening close to 50% of the range --- 2.75 with your range
• Nighttime at the bottom of the range --- 0 with your range
If we compare your results to the optimal results given above...
Your results :
Sample 1 : 8.89 (6 - 21) 19% of the way through the range
Sample 2 : 15.8 (1.5 - 7.6) 234% of the way through the range
Sample 3 : 12.5 (0 - 5.5) 227% of the way through the range
Sample 4 : < 1.5 (0 - 2) Not an exact figure, so can't do arithmetic with this result
Compare optimal results to your results...
1) Optimal = 21 --- Yours = 8.89 --- You produce 42% of optimal
2) Optimal = 6.075 --- Yours = 15.8 --- You produce 260% of optimal
3) Optimal = 2.75 --- Yours = 12.5 --- You produce 255% of optimal
4) Optimal = 0 (!!!!) --- Yours = ???
Totals --- Optimal = 29.825 --- Yours = 37.19 --- You produce 125% of the optimal amount of cortisol over the whole day.
Some comments about the test you've chosen... There are several companies offering saliva cortisol tests and some are better than others. Sadly, the test you've chosen is a poor one for the following reasons ...
1) It doesn't include a DHEA result which, in combination with the four cortisol results, can give you a rough idea of whether your total daily cortisol is rising or falling. If DHEA is low then cortisol may be dropping. If DHEA is high then cortisol may be rising.
2) Samples 3 and 4 have a reference range which begins at zero. This is only healthy for a corpse. Healthy people simply don't have zero cortisol at any time of day or night.
3) Sample 4 doesn't even have a proper result. There is a big difference between a result of, say, 0.1 or 1.4 but both would fit into the result that you've been given.
4) The problems with the ranges and sample 4 not having a result are probably due to the fact that their testing equipment is incapable of measuring tiny amounts of cortisol.
5) Better tests can be bought from Regenerus Labs and Genova Diagnostics UK. For further information on these companies, see this link :
thyroiduk.org/help-and-supp...
----
The problem you have is that your adrenals are under-producing cortisol first thing in the morning and are over-compensating for the low levels later in the day. If you could increase your cortisol first thing in the morning then it ought to reduce your cortisol later in the day.
IF you took nutri-adrenal or any other adrenal glandular it is unlikely to do any harm in the short term but it might make you feel dreadful. If you want to try it anyway, take a very small dose ideally at about 4am - but who wants to wake up at 4am? I wouldn't want to do it, personally.
The reason for suggesting 4am is because cortisol has a circadian rhythm and cortisol tends to start rising ready for waking up at about 3am - 4am.
If you were to take a small dose of an adrenal glandular then it might do the job you want it to. But I'm making no promises at all. There is also a possibility it could just make your situation worse, so any experiments you try should be done extremely cautiously.
There are other things you can do to improve adrenal health. I mention them in my replies to this thread :
I forgot to say...
In some people, taking some T3 during the night can encourage the adrenals to produce more cortisol. It's a case of finding out which came first? Poor cortisol, or possibly poor T3. (I don't actually know your thyroid results - I haven't read your earlier posts.)
And a final point...
See this thread and look at the third graph in the first post.
healthunlocked.com/thyroidu...
In healthy people T3 levels are at their highest throughout the night when the body does a lot of repair work. If you take T3 you might get some benefit from taking a little of it before you go to sleep. Some people find this improves sleep, some find it impossible to sleep. The only way to find out what it does to you is to experiment.
Thank you so much for all your informative information and help, thank you for taking the time to help me 😊My last thyroid levels show that I need more t3... and I'm getting the telltale signs that I do too..
So maybe my cortisol is high because of that...
There's a few things I am going to try including the Nutri adrenal.. I am very cautious about taking anything so I will always start with the most tiniest amount...
Either way something needs to change so that I am able to increase my t3...
I don't suffer physically nor do I have fatigue or lack of energy like most people on here suffering ...
I suffer mentally with anxiety depression and severe mood drops through the day, plus detachment/derealisation... I know the brain has more t3 receptors than any organ in the body and I feel my brain is the one that's suffering right now due to lack of t3..
I'm on 100mcg of levo and 5mcg of t3 a day at the moment and have been for a while now but I am going to try and increase the t3 a tiny bit in a second dose through the day and see how I get on.....
Just a personal anecdote...
I have had low iron all my life. During the last decade I have started to test and treat my own iron and ferritin (iron stores) regularly, and have found that improving my levels has eliminated my anxiety and massively improved my depression. My brain just works better with sufficient iron.
...
It is possible for people to have any combination of below range, low, optimal, high and over range, iron and ferritin, and different combinations of results can give you information about your health. So, having low levels of ferritin with high levels of serum iron is telling you different things about your health than the reverse i.e. low levels of serum iron and high levels of ferritin.
I don't know where you live, but if you live in the UK you can get an iron panel done privately using just a finger-prick sample :
medichecks.com/iron-tests/i...
There is a 10% off discount code for Medichecks given on this link :
thyroiduk.org/help-and-supp...
Hi Humanbean may I ask on the back of what you have said here, so is there a test for serum iron that is different to ferritin? I am trying to get my iron optimal and now I have some iron stores where that was well below range at one point. Does it mean if you have a good ferritin result that your serum iron surely is good as your body has enough and has stored away some? thank you 
Serum iron and ferritin are two different tests. There are other relevant tests associated with iron/ferritin that also give you information on the subject.
medichecks.com/products/iro...
The above link is to a full iron panel that contains the following tests :
Iron (sometimes referred to as serum iron)
Total Iron Binding Capacity (TIBC)
Transferrin Saturation
Ferritin
CRP or CRP-hs
There is a relationship between serum iron and ferritin but it is not a straightforward one.
So someone with below range ferritin could have, for example, iron below range, low in range, "normal", high in range or over the range. Depending on the combination it could indicate different problems and how they should be treated (or whether they should be treated). The opposite could occur as well - below range iron and high ferritin plus all the other possible combinations.
If you got an iron panel done (it's a finger-prick test) you could post the results and ask for feedback.
Thanks so much for this info! . really helpful I will look in to the medichecks iron test. I found iron all quite confusing.
Thank you for that information... a couple of years ago my ferritin was at 40.. I manged to get it right up to 89 and my folate increased to the top of the range too....Unfortuanly it hasn't changed anything for me mentally... though I will continue to take my iron and vitamin c each day.. I take double during my period...
Which iron do u take?
I usually take ferrous fumarate 210mg.
When I'm actively trying to raise my iron and/or ferritin I take one tablet, three times a day.
When I'm trying to keep my iron and/or ferritin roughly where they are I take one tablet four or five days a week.
If my ferritin goes above optimal I stop taking iron supplements altogether for three months then I do a retest.
My iron has never actually reached optimal so I tend to decide my dose based on my ferritin only.
Can u answer me this question humanbean of why u think my cortisol would rise and I would feel worse?
-
Nutri Adrenal doesn't contain any hormones so won't contain cortisol or adrenaline. It goes through a production process that involves de-fatting, which removes the hormones. Also as a supplement company Nutri are not allowed to sell hormones....
Can u answer me this question humanbean of why u think my cortisol would rise and I would feel worse?
I took Nutri Adrenal about 8 years ago (but really didn't know what I was doing). The formula may have changed since then.
I took the NA before I knew the result of a saliva cortisol test I'd done. It turned out that my cortisol was over the range on three out of four of the samples and about 90% through the range for the remaining sample. During the time my cortisol was high and I was taking NA I was sweating like crazy, my already severe insomnia got even worse, and I was so bad tempered that I was almost homicidal.
I would never take any product like Nutri Adrenal again since I have a tendency to have high cortisol.
Thank you for your reply, it really helps...I recently took it for over a week starting at half then a full one, but I felt like I was getting worse and kept waking up at stupid hours in the night and waking up feeling really weird...
Not sure it suits me... or maybe I should have stuck to half a one 🤔
Do u suggest I have another cortisol test done that includes the DHEA...
Or could my cortisol levels be high in the afternoon because of not enough thyroid hormones....
My mental health is severely deteriorating and my memory is like a civ at the minute, I'm very low..
I'm currently taking all vitamins that are required and recommended from Dr P book
I'm also taking the rhodiola drops in water to help with adrenals..
Iv also purchased the Paul Robinson book to help with t3 dosage....
What do u suggest my next steps are?...
Do u suggest I have another cortisol test done that includes the DHEA...
In an earlier reply I gave you this link where I gave some links to info that may improve adrenal health :
healthunlocked.com/thyroidu...
I would suggest trying what you can to improve your adrenal health before doing another cortisol test. Perhaps try another test in about three months?
Another possible source of information is Paul Robinson's website (and I see you've bought one of his books) :
He had cortisol problems and improved his own health by using the circadian rhythm of TSH, Free T4 and Free T3 to his advantage. I haven't read his stuff for a long time so I'm probably out of date.
paulrobinsonthyroid.com/?s=...
I'm also taking the rhodiola drops in water to help with adrenals..
Rhodiola reduces cortisol in most people. What time of day are you taking these drops?
Thank you for the information...I take the rhodiola drops in a little water in the afternoon around 12...
Been doing this for a couple of weeks now, not sure if it's helping or not...
But I'm very up and down at the minute due to my thyroid levels not being optimal...
After a really good 8 months my tsh started to rise in December and ft3 just in range I do well with a tsh below 1 and ft3 around 5... I have been trying to get the tsh down by slow increases but get horrible side effects... in the past 4 weeks my tsh has lowered and ft3 has doubled with just a 1mcg increase!...
My question really is how do u manage your high cortisol levels?And what thyroid meds are u on?
I currently take T4/T3 and am struggling getting the right dose due to my high cortisol I think?
I had high cortisol all day and struggled to find anything that helped me. One thing I did a lot of in the early days is changing the timing of my thyroid hormone doses. I wrote about it for someone else earlier today :
healthunlocked.com/thyroidu...
I never really improved reliably until I started taking Holy Basil which lowers cortisol for me. I was using this product :
swansonvitamins.com/swanson...
In the beginning I took a lot (two capsules, three times a day), but over a long period of time I slowly reduced my dose. I finally gave it up altogether just a few months ago.
Note that SeasideSusie took Holy Basil under the instruction of a functional doctor of some kind. The doctor didn't suggest re-testing and eventually Susie's level of cortisol dropped a long way, and she has been trying to raise it again for a long time. My apologies to SeasideSusie if I've got that wrong.
But your situation is different to mine. Your cortisol is way below optimal in the morning, and in that situation you really need to raise your morning cortisol because it will affect your output later in the day. A better cortisol level first thing in the morning should lead to reduced output later in the day.
So, try a small dose of an adrenal glandular first thing in the morning and see if it helps. Try an adrenal cocktail once or twice a day. Try changing the times you take your thyroid hormones. Keep your nutrients as close to optimal as you can. Do you eat enough protein? How's your blood sugar? Could you be diabetic or pre-diabetic?
I should point out that I can't do saliva cortisol tests any more. I can't produce enough saliva. So I'm now restricted to just working on the basis of my symptoms, which isn't easy for cortisol-related issues - but I have been self-treating for close to a decade now, and am happy to experiment with my own treatment.
A link you might find helpful, although it is quite out of date now :
functionalmedicine.net/pdf/...
Take a look at the graph on page 18. It is far from being a perfect match for your results but it might be helpful as a starting point. If you do read that document bear in mind that DHEA and DHEA-S are not the same thing, and that UK saliva cortisol tests don't tend to include DHEA-S results. I've never seen one, for what that is worth.
Thank you for helping me with your knowledgeable information.Can I ask, does it make a difference that I actually did my morning saliva at around 9.40 and had already been awake over an hour before I did it! I had just forgot to do it when I first woke up? 🙄....
I tried the nutri adrenal for over a week and was taking 1 tablet at around 10 each morning, but I felt weird and kept waking up through the night, it disturbed my sleep pattern and my brain?😕
If I took the Holy basil in the afternoon and teatime when my cortisol is high would that help me?
Also can the high cortisol currently be caused by my lowish t3 and my levels not being optimal?
I have just purchased the Paul Robinson book and I am waiting for it to be delivered so I can try the different timings of dosage and see if that helps me.....
Can I ask, does it make a difference that I actually did my morning saliva at around 9.40 and had already been awake over an hour before I did it!
I think your best bet to get an answer to this question is to email the company who supplied the test in the first place.
I tried the nutri adrenal for over a week and was taking 1 tablet at around 10 each morning, but I felt weird and kept waking up through the night, it disturbed my sleep pattern and my brain?
I would have suggested trying it more or less the instant you woke up. But having disturbed sleep could well be because you are getting more cortisol and you already have loads later in the day.
If I took the Holy basil in the afternoon and teatime when my cortisol is high would that help me?
I think that your body is going to get very confused taking something that may contain cortisol and/or adrenaline first thing in the morning, and then something to reduce cortisol later in the day. I can't imagine how it might work for you, sorry.
Also can the high cortisol currently be caused by my lowish t3 and my levels not being optimal?
Yes, I suspect the two issues could be connected. But shifting the HPA axis to increase/reduce cortisol output at certain times of day is likely to be extremely difficult, and I can't think of any other suggestions that might be helpful.
Thankyou for answering my questions, yes it does seem very confusing doesn't it in my case :/Does this mean I should or should not be taking the rhodiola drops in the afternoon? Will the drops not help at all?...
Will the adrenal cocktail help.me?
Iv got a feeling that maybe the timings of when I take my levo and t3 may help me with my cortisol issues do u? What time do u think? split doses?
I really don't suffer physically at all and am slim with a good diet no diabetes, it's my mental health that suffers, I.e bad memory, up and down moods every hour, sometimes more, anxiety, panic attacks, depression... I feel my brain lacks t3..?
I'm currently taking all the necessary vitamins for thyroid health recommended by Dr P.. I haven't had my levels tested for a few years ... but will have to pay for private vitamin tests no doubt...
Iv looked at the thyroid madness adrenal cocktail website and recipe link that you provided on another post but it seems more focused on low cortisol...Would it actually help me with high cortisol?
ThyroidObsessed
Can I ask, does it make a difference that I actually did my morning saliva at around 9.40 and had already been awake over an hour before I did it!
Yes I believe it does.
I see you've done a Blue Horizon test and they say to do your first sample on waking.
I do the Regenerus test and they are very specific in their instructions about the first sample, this is in their instructions
First saliva collection MUST be 30 minutes after awakening. Set a timer if necessary.
Your first sample result is
8.89 (6-21)
This sample measures your level at the highest point of the day. Because you didn't do it at the correct time, your level will already started to have fallen (cortisol is highest on waking, falling throughout the day) so there's every possibility that your actual level is not as low as this result shows.
Thank you for answering me, I suspected as much...I'm going to try the timings of taking the t3 by Reading the Paul Robinson book, how else can I help my high cortisol do u think?
I am taking a multitude of vitamins religiously now, advised by Dr P book...
I'm not sure if I should be taking the rhodiola drops after humanbeans answers though?
how else can I help my high cortisol do u think?
I'm afraid I don't know. A "practioner" completely messed things up with me, treating me for "high" cortisol, when I didn't know much about it at all and looking back it actually wasn't that bad, and I was left with extremely low levels across the board which I'm still trying to correct probably 3 years later.
Yes humanbean was explaining what had happened to you...I'm hoping the Paul Robinson book helps me..
And increasing my vitamin levels too...
So it's probably going to mean that my cortisol is actually high throughout the day and lowers at night... which would explain why when I took the NA for over a week it made me worse!
So it's probably going to mean that my cortisol is actually high throughout the day and lowers at night...
Well your waking cortisol is probably higher than the result shows but I don't think it will be top of range or over range. They should be, from waking to bedtime:
Top of range
75%
50%
Bottom of range
So you really have no idea where your first and last samples lie but you do know that your 2nd and 3rd samples are too high.
Yes this is true...
Although I am having a major blip at the moment I have been relatively stable on Armour Thyroid for 7 years & think that the T3 component of it helped my cortisol levels by taking my first dose at 5am & a small dose at 5pm. I read Paul Robinsons book about circadian rhythm dosing & it really seemed to help balance things out., though took a while to find the right timings for me. Hope things improve for you soon.
Thank you... I am going to do a tiny increase of my t3 by taking half in a morning and half in the evening 😊
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