METAVIVE experience and why I stopped. (a long post sorry!!) Please read and tell me what you think...

[Starsw]

I posted a few times about Metavive here first:

healthunlocked.com/thyroidu...

and there later:

healthunlocked.com/thyroidu...

My decision to try Metavive (porcine l and ll) was to try to find a product I could source in the UK. I had been on Thyroid S for nearly 5 years 2.5 grains but the difficulties in sourcing Thyroid S and the hike in price had started to worry me. (I cannot use Levothyroxine as it makes me feel very unwell, body pain, GERD, weight gain, brain fog and more.)

A little recap of how I have started and added to my Metavive dose.

On the 26th of November 20 I started to take 1 Met ll and 1Met l (split does one morning one afternoon) after 2 weeks on the 10th of December 2020 I had a blood test with those results:

TSH: 0.01miu/L (0.35--3.5) as I was on NDT my TSH been supressed for around 4.5 years)

T3: 3.1pmol/L (3.8—6)

T4: 10.8pmo/L (7.5—21.1)

I was feeling very under-medicated tired and also very sleepy in the afternoon and always craving for carb and sugar.

From the 10/12 to the 30/12 (3 weeks) I was taking 2 Met ll a day one in the morning and one in the afternoon for the first 10 days I was feeling quite ok but then started to feel very low again put a bit of weight on and also started to have strong afternoon headaches.

From the 30st of December 2020 up to the 15 of January 2021, I was taking 2 Met ll and 1 Met l splitting the doses 1 Met ll morning 1 Met ll lunch time and 1 Met l 5/6 pm. I felt better for a few days but then yet again felt very tired in the afternoon with very strong headaches every day.

So from the 15 of January 2021 I started to take 3 Met ll a day. 2 Met ll in the morning 1 Met l lunch time and 1 Met l 5/6 pm after a few days improvement I started to feel quite ill very tired violent headaches and also my thyroid became inflamed and painful I thought maybe that was the result of non-confirm Covid from November so I had an antibody test for Covid which came back negative.

After 4 weeks on 3 Met ll a day I sent a test to Medi-check but they messed it up saying it was too old with a January date wile I ordered my test on the 8th of February (nothing made sense anyway they sent me another test I have a few months to use it so that is good).

In the meantime, after talking to my GP as he requested a blood test for the 19th of February I decided to wait, so after 5 weeks on 3 Met ll in split doses feeling by then very ill with awful headaches, tiredness, and thyroiditis I had my blood results (I thought they would be either so low or so high but they seem perfect)???:

TSH: 0.01 miu/L (0.35—3.5)

T3: 5.3 pmol/L (3.8—6)

T4: 11.8 pmol/L (7.5—21.1)

And yes I stopped all vitamin Bs and also took my last Met dose 11.5 hours before blood draw.

I think that the Nucleotides in Metavive may have triggered some auto immune response I have written to 2 companies selling Nucleotides as supplements but had no direct answers as the potential for Nucleotides supplements to boost my immune system creating problems with Hashimotos.

However, in one of the site selling Nucleotides supplements: naturaldispensary.co.uk/pro...

I found that warning: “Additional Warnings:

Avoid usage if you have had an organ transplant or are taking immune suppressive medication.”

On the BIOcare site I found this on the Nucleotides supplements page : “Immunity

When we are exposed to pathogens like bacteria or viruses, the production of immune cells increases exponentially to swiftly fight the infection. This is of course reliant on new DNA and so nucleotides. Nucleotides have been shown to have immune enhancing capabilities.4 They’ve also been shown to reduce the symptoms of common cold, including earache and sinus pain, and were especially effective if supplemented at an early stage of the infection.”

I have now sent back one sealed bottle of Metavive ll and send an e-mail to the company explaining that I was feeling ill with Metavive and suggesting it triggered some autoimmune response I just had a general answer telling me they were sorry Metavive was no longer suitable for me no other comment.

The fact is the longer I took Metavive the worse I felt and I was not even Hyper or Hypo I never been allergic to fillers in fact Thyroid S has quite a few and I was taking it with no issue (it is also Porcine).

Just one day only after I stopped Metavive I started to feel better I was on Thyroid S again for a week (waiting for bovine glandular from the U.S), all my symptoms of fatigue and painful thyroid (like it was going to explode in my neck) are gone.

I have been taking Forefront for 4 days now and feels good so far ofc it is very early days, time will tell (I take one 130mg capsule morning one 65 mg lunch time and in alternate day another 65 mg 6 pm.

I would very much like some feedback and comments about this It has been a very difficult time and maybe I am wrong somewhere and it has nothing to do with Nucleotides… I nearly tried Metavive Bovine as it contains far less Nucleotides only 15 mg in Metavive IV respective to 50 mg in Metavive II but I was so unwell by then with Metavive and not sure why so it felt safer for me to stop Metavive all together.

Please all of you especially if you have or have been taking Metavive let me know your thoughts. Thank you.

[Hypopotamus]

When my TR ran out, I went to one capsule of Metavive II (bovine), and two of the Tru thyroid tablets. My TSH went up, and I agreed to take 50 mg of thyroxine (that didn't make me feel any worse).

I don't feel too bad although I do notice some hypo symptoms coming back. I have recently added half a tablet of some quite out of date Thiroid, and feel that has made a slight improvement.

How ridiculous that we have to go to these lengths to try and keep going. Most of us know that Thiroid, Thyroid S,, and TR work fine for us, if only we could still get them.

Is Forefront expensive?

[Starsw in reply to Hypopotamus]

Hi Hypopotamus

Thank you for reading and replying.

Metavive II is not bovine it is porcine and the one that contains the most Nucleotides so beware. Metavive III and IV are the bovine one.

Also with my 11 years experience with Levo I can tell you please watch out for hypo symptoms coming back Levo helped me for around 6/12 months after I started (I was so hypo then) but then I became increasingly ill.

Forefront is not very expensive for me would be around (with shipping and VAT included) £100 for 3 months (all depends how much you need it is stronger than MET you can buy 130mg glandular or 65mg) of course you have to add the shipping and VAT now with the new export/import laws after Brexit for any goods (including postage) under £135 Vat will be paid at the point of export aka point of sale so should be added to your bill by the company and included in your price, this time because they are still trying to open a VAT account with HMRC I did not pay VAT royal mail just delivered it as a parcel under £135 (one time lucky).

Take care

[Hypopotamus in reply to Starsw]

You are right, it is the porcine that I have. I must have made a mistake when ordering.

When I was first diagnosed, every time that my levo was increased, my TSH went up. But after 20 years, it now appears to be doing something, at least as far as my TSH is concerned.

As I only have a state pension as income, the Forefront is too expensive for me. I don't understand why we can't just go back to having a local supply of NDT. Presumably animal thyroid gland is a waste product, so I can't see where the high costs come from. A year or so back, the Thai NDTs worked well, and didn't cost a fortune.

[Carys21]

Wow! What a horrible experience for you. I use a US NDT, probably the one you are waiting for. I bought some metavive 1 and 11 as a backup before I realised it was nearly all neuclotides with only 15mg and 30mg of actual NDT, (found that information on here thanks to the admin) I have not taken it yet as I have enough of the US product for a few months. However that source is drying up so I may have to switch to metavive bovine in the future, thanks for the heads up.

[hipolion]

Hi, you can order thyroid-s from <redacted source>. I'm also waiting for my package to arrive.

[helvella in reply to hipolion]

26. Do not post advertisements, links or information of any sort whatsoever, on where or how to obtain UK prescription only medications without prescription. This includes online pharmacies who issue 'prescriptions' on the basis of the completion of a simple health questionnaire.

I shall redact the details.

The full Thyroid UK guidelines can be found here:

healthunlocked.com/thyroidu...

[Starsw in reply to hipolion]

Yes thank you I have finally ordered some Thyroid S still I will continue to take Forefront bovine to know if it can be a reliable alternative.

[Starsw]

Just found this so made a new post for all to be aware about Metavive.

healthunlocked.com/thyroidu...

[Serendipitious]

Starsw,

Thanks for posting and your research. Have you ever tried the old formula Metavive without the nucleotides to compare? Anyway I've been on 6 capsules of Metavive iii for some time. On the new formula, my results back in July 2020 were mid range for FT3 and FT4 but when tested in December 2020 FT3 was above range. I honestly don't know how that could happen. I switched back to Levo for 6 weeks after this and I felt awful. I'm now on 5 capsules of Metavive, for the last 20 days and don't feel as well as I did on 6. I've been concerned about the addition of nucleotides ever since. The other thing that has happened is that my periods have stopped. So started NF Metavive in June 2020 and period suddenly stopped since September 2020. Could be a coincidence I dont know but its still a big concern for me. I so wish I could go back to the old formula. I've never been one of those people who have felt completely better on the right dose of thyroid hormones. Thyroid hormone physiology can break down in so many ways. However, if I switch back to Levo then I feel worse that's for sure. I feel I'm stuck now as I cant trust Metavive anymore and Levo does not work for me either.

Can I ask where it says you should only take one capsule of Metavive? I think I read that in one of your posts. Any practitioner I've seen has always said start low and build up. I've contacted Procepts about the nucleotides too and of course the response is always quite abrupt and almost rude at times. There's not much they can say anyway.

Also, why did you decide to go for Forefront's Bovine Thyroid in particular? How are you getting on with it now? I always wanted to avoid sourcing this stuff from abroad due to cost and having to rely on international post and customs. I honestly feel like there's nothing much that can be done about my health right now. Feeling very low.

[Starsw]

Hi Serendipitious

To answer your questions no I never tried Metavive old formula so I cannot compare.

I was taking Thyroid S (porcine) for 5 years with no issues except i was well so would forget

I was taking 3X60mg tablets forgetting once or twice a week but somehow it was working well if for instance I would not forget at all for a couple of week I would feel slightly over-medicated.

Metavive porcine (Met I and Met II) contains much more Nucleotides with 3 Met II I was taking 150 mg Nucleotides with 6 Met bovine you would take 48 mg Nucleotides and 192 mg bovine thyroid (if i refer to thyro-gold it would be around 65 microgram T4 and 16 Microgram T3 but there is no certainty in this calculation)

Your period stopping could be either Hypothyroidism or Hyper.

How much levo were you taking?

I used to take 100/125 microgram levo and feeling horrible and then taking Thyroid S I was on 2.5/2.75grains of 60 mg (around) 90/100 micrograms T4 and 22/25 Micrograms T3, with Metavive II 3 a day I may have been taking?? (based on Thyroid S) 54 micrograms T4 and 14 micrograms T3 nowhere near as much as thyroid S still I was in range while I though I would be Hypo what a mystery. How could 90 mg glandular be enough when i was taking (minimum) 150 mg NDT and I was fine with my T4 (my T3 a bit low because I never split the dose so after 24 hours when I was testing they had depleted).

When you done the test with Metavive did you take your last dose 12 hours before the test?

When my thyroid started to hurt while taking Metavive I also thought it was a coincidence which seems very strange as when I stopped taking it I was good again i feel occasional residual inflammation but it is gone now after I stopped Metavive for just over a week.

On the bottle of Metavive you can read NUTRITION INFORMATION, Then INGREDIENTS then DIRECTION where it says: one capsule a day as a food supplement or as directed by a qualified healthcare practitioner.

I decided for Forefront because I was looking at Nutrimed but at the time they did not have the 65 mg capsules in stock and i wanted to be able to tweak an split doses so decided to buy Forefront instead as they are very similar I have seen that Nutrimeds 65 mgs are now back in stock (forefront been very helpful with every questions and also with answering about my shipping). It has been 6 days with Forefront taking one130mg morning one 65mg lunch time and one 65 mg before dinner and feeling Ok so far but I felt Ok with Metavive for around 10 days every time a changed dose then I would feel unwell (undermedicated) then the thyroid inflammation started on and off then every day when I up my dose to 3 Met II a day I kept going because I wanted to know my lab results after 5 weeks they were good but I wasn't the main issues being splitting Headaches and very painful thyroid (I also experienced breast tenderness no periods at my age) all symptoms were reduced in the morning but would start again badly 2/3 hours after my morning Metavive dose...???

I will keep you updated about Forefront...

Hope this is helpful. Take care.

[Serendipitious in reply to Starsw]

I didn't see your reply here, perhaps I missed the notification. Just found it now and I'll have a proper read. Thanks.

[Starsw in reply to Serendipitious]

It's ok no problem I miss notifications sometimes it has been a trying time between Metavive I and II making me feel like my thyroid was going to explode plus the headaches which i am not prone to the headaches as i can recall started pretty soon after I had started Metavive and then Forefront being like empty shell lol So glad I can be on thyroid S again and that my daughter has enough for herself for the next few months. I would even try Metavive III and IV as there is far less nucleotides but I have no energy to experiment again for a quite while beside your experience was not a good one either do you record why? as you were on the bovine one. Just curious wondering if Metavive bovine could work for a few of us. Take care

[reliablerebel]

Hi Starsw, sorry to hear the metavive did not agree with you - I am still doing well on it, luckily for me. But interested to read about your research all the same. Good luck!!

[Foxtrot89]

I’ve replied to your other thread on the new Metavive but wanted to put a reply here too for anyone reading.

I used to take Metavive I (porcine) 15mg which changed to Metavive I (porcine) 40mg including the nucleotides.

I was doing quite well on the original formula.

New formula I took 1 a day for 3 weeks and 3 days in total. I’d been getting more knackered and had a weird sensation of being slightly off-balance that I couldn’t pin down to anything (my balance is normally excellent, no issues!)

I tried taking 2 on a day and felt much more tired. That night the room started spinning like I was drunk. Same happened when I took my next dose in the morning. Stopped entirely that day.

Politely reported to Procepts and they were sympathetic and helpful. I may try an alternative from them.