Metavive experience and warning!!: This is my... - Thyroid UK

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Metavive experience and warning!!

Starsw
Starsw

This is my previous post with my rather difficult experience with Metavive I and II

healthunlocked.com/thyroidu......

And This what i found about Nucleotides from a London Osteopath and Naturopath specialised in Nutrition.

susannahmakram.com/dna-nucl...

" NOTE: There are a couple of contraindications for taking nucleotides as supplements. Because of its purine content, those of us who are genetically predisposed, have a history of, or suffer from gout are generally advised not to supplement nucleotides. Furthermore, the strong immune-enhancing effect prohibits the use of nucleotides for sufferers of auto-immune diseases and users of immune-repressive medications."

So this just confirm what i thought and Metavive is sold to us mainly Hashimoto sufferers with no warnings.

One advice if you want to take Metavive take the bovine one it contains more gland Metavive IV contains 65mg gland and only 15 mg nucleotides and Metavive III has 32mg gland and 8mg Nucleotides.

After months of trying with porcine Metavive and feeling more ill every day this makes me feel rather angry how can a company think it is OK to add Nucleotides to a supplement many autoimmune system sufferers will be taking and this without proper warnings shouldn't they create an alternative with or without Nucleotides Added this explains as well why some people on the forum found they were feeling well with the old formulation but started to get unwell with the new formulation when the nucleotides were added.

37 Replies

Hi Starsw, well done with your research. That explains a lot.

I followed the links given on the Procepts site and got as far as finding out what the nucleotides don't contain, but not what they do contain. For example, (without checking again), they say it's gluten free, but don't say that it's oats free, whereas I'm not gluten sensitive but I am sensitive to wheat and oats among other things; in fact I always avoid things on the 'free from' section which contain gluten free oats.

I wonder if they should be reported as not complying with the Trades Descriptions Act. ??

An alternative? I was offered an alternative which they are trying out for those of us who react badly to new Metavive. I eventually decided that I didn't want to be a guinea pig for another product so I'm now on Erfa with a prescription.

Starsw
Starsw in reply to Anthea55

Hi Anthea

Thank you, I have spent the last month endlessly searching reading medicals papers (most are well above my head but I understood a few principles) the few experiments of Nucleotides on Human is when they are added to formula for sick babies who cannot be breastfed and there is a very strict limit per kilo also a small study on athlete recovery the rest is all about fishery and pig farm (may be that's were the company got their idea from).

I have seen quite a few posts about people feeling unwell on the New Metavive. I thought they have been very reckless with their new formulation.

Yes I thought to report them supplements are controlled by Food Trading Standards in the UK but I thought if this new product could work for some that is good we have none in the uk.

I have decided to contact them again and send them the link about the warning for auto-immune disease sufferer and request from them to add a warning to their product and also go back to the old formulation without Nucleotides as a new product they could add something a bit armless in small quantity like pectin or apple powder to sell as a supplement if they need to as UK regulations on thyroid products are very stringent.

Why would they go for Nucleotides among all things it seems so careless.

:)

Anthea55
Anthea55 in reply to Starsw

They might argue that the instructions say 'Do not exceed the recommended daily dose.', but as the daily dose of Metavive I is a single capsule and the daily dose of Metavive II is a single capsule that doesn't make sense - you need 2 of Metavive I to make 1 of Metavive II.

They are also not taking account of the amounts that existing users are taking.

therese3009
therese3009 in reply to Starsw

Stars, can you tell me WHEN Metavive changed their formula to include Neucleotides? I've order my second batch a couple of weeks ago and fear I'll be taking a Different Metavive to my present on. tnks in advance

helvella
helvellaAdministrator in reply to therese3009

A PDF from the company which explains something about their recent change was actually last updated 09 April 2020. So they had either changed the formula by then, or at least decided to do so.

I have no information as to whether customers started to receive that product then, earlier or later.

the-natural-choice.co.uk/do...

The first post here I could find was from August 2020.

healthunlocked.com/thyroidu...

Starsw
Starsw in reply to helvella

What Anthea55 was talking about is the change in weight since the reformulation when they added Nucleotides my capsules have as listed ingredients: porcine Thyroid standardised 5" ribonucleotides, rice bran, and vegetable cellulose. nothing else I bought them in November. Nucleotides have mainly been tested in fishery and for rearing piglets (to reinforce their immune system to avoid antibiotics) maybe Proceps had a cheap reserve of nucleotides I am being cheeky here .

Very few tests done on humans they are added to certain baby formula milk with no conclusive benefits at the end if people with immune disease should avoid echinacea because of its immune enhancing abilities it should be the same for Nucleotides and Proceps should include a warning about it. ..

😊

helvella
helvellaAdministrator in reply to Starsw

Yes - the weight did change. I was just tracking back to the earliest documented reference to "nucleotides" - which was in that PDF. :-)

As such, the purified complex of all four primary nucleotides added to this new formula, perfectly complements this premium quality organ meat supplement.

So I checked the date that PDF was created.

Starsw
Starsw in reply to helvella

Yes I have seen that in previous posts there is much more Nucleotides in the porcine?? Cannot understand why except cost maybe or because porcine thyroid are more on demand which come to the same... I wish they would be more transparent about it like on the label differentiate between the weight of thyroid and the weight of the nucleotides.

Do you know or anyone else about the regulation that would make the supplement a prescription medication is it stating the content of T3 T4 or is it the weight of dried thyroid? I really wish we would be left alone to self medicate as we please as the NHS is not interested in given us proper care and attention with our thyroid issues.. 🙂

Anthea55
Anthea55 in reply to helvella

I received new version of Metavive I at the end of June 2020. My order in March 2020 was the old version. Info from emails about my orders -

Old version describes product as 'Metavive I Porcine Thyroid 15mg',

New version is 'Metavive I Porcine Thyroid Complex 40mg'.

So update between March and June 2020 which fits your April date.

helvella
helvellaAdministrator in reply to Anthea55

Thank you - all seems to make sense.

I was trying not to make too much of an assumption - they could have prepared the document months before the change worked its way through the supply chain.

Anthea55
Anthea55 in reply to helvella

One of my concerns is to know what the 5’-Ribonucleotides are made from. This is the 'Nutrition Information' for Metavive I from the website.

"Each capsule contains: Porcine Thyroid Complex 40 mg

INGREDIENTS: Rice Bran; Porcine Thyroid Complex (Standardised 5’-Ribonucleotides, Porcine Thyroid Gland); Vegetable Cellulose Capsule.

Does not contain any artificial additives, sugar, salt, egg, wheat, dairy, corn or soy derivatives. Although the 5’-Ribonucleotides in this formula are extracted from YEAST, this ingredient is quality tested to confirm NO YEAST remains in the finished product."

So although they say that 5’-Ribonucleotides are extracted from Yeast, is it just yeast or it could have had something else in it which isn't in their list. One of my reasons for suspecting this is that I've had a recurrence of a symptom which I had before my food intolerances were identified and hadn't had since. It's better now that it's several months since I stopped using Metavive - hoping to gradually get it out of my system.

helvella
helvellaAdministrator in reply to Anthea55

I think they are made from yeast.

A coupe of links - though I am not familiar with the sites or their reputations:

foodadditives.net/flavor-en...

fedup.com.au/factsheets/add...

Anthea55
Anthea55 in reply to helvella

Thanks for that. The fedup.com.au link is interesting.

It seems odd that something described as a food additive is sufficiently bulky to make up over half the new capsules.

This also links up with some recent posts about unidentified rashes - this one is called 'RiboRash'.

Starsw
Starsw in reply to Anthea55

If you have a look here 5" nucleotides from yeast are also taste enhancer: here they analyse the quality of Nucleotides added. novocib.com/Yeast_Extract_N....

I think the bulk come from the rice bran mainly. It does annoy me that they say their capsules are 80mg when in fact it is only 30mg of thyroid the rest is useless if not armful.

🙂

helvella
helvellaAdministrator in reply to Anthea55

I can't understand their choice.

If just a bulking agent, it would be more familiar to choose rice flour, some sort of cellulose, etc. (Also, I'd have expected they would be cheaper.)

Why would the addition of this substance help in keeping their product on the market?

Starsw
Starsw in reply to helvella

I think Rice bran is probably cheaper it is a reject product really from every grain of rice packed up ready to cook and that's a lot of rice. I think they choose rice bran because it sounds more natural "organic" than rice flour. 🙃

Anthea55
Anthea55 in reply to helvella

As RedApple has suggested, she suspects "the various things being added might have a lot to do with this product being classed as an OTC supplement".

As far as I'm concerned people should be advised to be extremely careful with these products even if they don't have problems initially.

Note also that the Adrenavive range of products have been updated with ribonucleotides in the same way.

Starsw
Starsw in reply to Anthea55

wow they must have ordered tones of Nucleotides for their piglet farms by mistake then LOL!!

I wrote to 2 companies selling Nucleotides supplements asking if they would advise people with auto-immune disease to take Nucleotides one reply they just selling them not qualified to answer the other propose me a other boosting supplement with very little nucleotides in them.

therese3009
therese3009 in reply to helvella

Wow thank you for your deep research on this matter. Yea I started in Oct 2020 so maybe I've been already taking the ones with nucleotides. Really appreciate your work. Xx

therese3009
therese3009 in reply to helvella

Thank you Halvella. My 1st purchase was in Oct 2020. Cheers.

Starsw
Starsw in reply to therese3009

Hi sorry I am not sure when they changed it

If yours is porcine Metavive II and state 80 mg then it is the new formula with 50 mg added Nucleotides and only 30 mg Porcine thyroid. Metavive I (new formula) is 40mg which is 15mg porcine thyroid and 25 mg Nucleotides It is better in Metavive III That is also 40mg but has 32 mg bovine thyroid and 8 mg Nucleotides and Metavive IV 80 mg has 65mg bovine thyroid and 15 mg Nucleotides. if you read the label under Nutrition information there is the list of ingredients they do not tell you the quantity but they are listed.

I think you probably will get the new batch when did you buy the previous one by the way are you sure they do not have Nucleotides I bought mine in November and it was the new formula.

😊

therese3009
therese3009 in reply to Starsw

Wow thank you for your deep research on this matter. Yea I started in Oct 2020 so maybe I've been already taking the ones with nucleotides. Really appreciate your work. Xx

Starsw
Starsw in reply to therese3009

The problem with adding anything to Thyroid supplements is that people need different amount to adjust to their needs so except if they add vitamin C 10 mg it is pretty armless even if someone take 5 capsules a day, but Nucleotides 50mg if you take 4 capsules then it is already 200mg per day and that may well boost your immune system which is a problem with auto-immune disease. because we do not want our immune system being boosted how reckless of them not to have thought about it... 😞

Starsw
Starsw in reply to therese3009

Well on the bright side I am now experimenting with Forefront bovine and will eventually update about it ... so far so good 😊 xxx

Further to my comment above about an alternative to new Metavive being trialled. I was told that they have added organic kelp (<7%), selenium as sodium selenite (16%RDA) and L-Tyrosine, all these per capsule equivalent to Metavive I (or double that for Metavive II). I had previously been on 5 x Metavive I, that would make my daily dose of selenium at 5 x 16% of RDA , so 80% of RDA without being tested. The kelp would have iodine in it as well. Many people are taking larger doses than that so they would be receiving higher doses.

Starsw
Starsw in reply to Anthea55

Wow but why!! Kelp is not recommended for Hashi sufferers I used to take a supplement containing kelp and it started to give me slight angina most of us are already taking selenium 200microg is the maximum, they have to understand that people take various doses to respond to their needs they seem to want to boost the "effectiveness" I think because Metavive II is only 30 mg of dried porcine gland I do not know if there is an EU (well this is not as important now) or UK regulation that's stop them using above a certain amount of dried thyroid??

helvella
helvellaAdministrator in reply to Anthea55

One of the issues with kelp is that although we might expect an iodine content, we are unlikely to see an accurate value for that.

All too often, nutritional claims are based on generic information. I simply cannot see companies repeatedly assaying iodine content of every batch they get as an ingredient.

It is well known that iodine content varies very considerably.

Starsw
Starsw in reply to helvella

Yes you are right and kelp can be higher or lower in iodine I think it is an issue for Thyroid supplements no other active components should be added because of everyone needing a different dose, if we want to take selenium for example it is better to order it separately and have the thyroid supplement free from funny business and side effect. :)

shaws
shawsAdministrator

Thanks for posting.

RedApple
RedAppleAdministrator

Starsw, Thanks for keeping us updated on this, it's very interesting information.

I suspect the various things being added might have a lot to do with this product being classed as an OTC supplement, unlike prescription thyroid preparations.

Starsw
Starsw in reply to RedApple

Yes you may be right I am trying to find out about EU and UK regulations but cannot find much I thought the requirement was to not state the amount of T4 and T3 in a supplement??

Thankyou for finding out all this information and for sharing , I’m so disappointed that another trial I’ve done after the disaster of the other one Tru t and now this ! It certainly is bad that nucleocites should be avoided by autoimmune patients and most thyroid patients are that !

It is that the sadness we have to be Guinea pig because there is no proper care for Thyroid sufferers it really makes me angry how many internet sites trying to brainwash us about the danger of NDT and Thyroid supplements what about the danger of levothyroxine a huge silent conspiracy lead by NICE while they are paid with our taxes. In this case Proceps ought to put a warning label they have a duty of care I will write to them in the next few days.. and we will see if they are interested. 🤗

Feeling very frustrated about all this, I wish there was something we could do. Thanks for your updates.

Very good post and interesting info, thanks!OT, but this reminds me of the new Vietnamese NDT Real Thyroid. It´s sold as a supplement for thyroid support and contains seaweed and potassium iodide...two things people with Hashimoto´s should avoid. I suspect that is the reason the product has such bad reviews....people are simply getting more hypo on it. I read about someone who´s TSH went from suppressed to above 7 on it. This just goes to prove that reformulations and the addition of so called "inactive ingredients" can be anything but harmles...!

Absolutely PurpleCat71 those extra ingedients can be a real problem only some form of rather inert ingredients like filler can be better tolerated (but not always) the problem with thyroid supplements is we also need different dosage so the extra ingredient like kelp or nucleotides are multiplied by the number of capsules we take. Now I am taking bovine glandular from Forefront and seem to do well on it the capsules have fillers and thyroid gland extract but no other added stuff after I will have my test to see my numbersI will post about it it is always good for everyone to have extra options. :)

Do you have to get this from NZ?

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