Natural route

[Mrs-Dobbs]

Hi,

Has anyone gone down the natural route and managed to come of thyroxine tablets for hypothyroidism?

[greygoose]

What is 'the natural route'? You can only replace a hormone with a hormone - thyroxine - and hormones are perfectly 'natural'.

[Mrs-Dobbs in reply to greygoose]

So there is nothing to boost my own hormones to get them working again?

[greygoose in reply to Mrs-Dobbs]

No. It's not your hormones that have stopped working. It's the gland that produces the hormones, the thyroid, that has stopped working, stopped producing hormone. And, you cannot live without thyroid hormone, so you have to take thyroid hormone replacement - levo, T3 or NDT.

And, if you have Hashi's, your thyroid is being slowly destroyed by your immune system. No-one really knows why, nor how to stop it. But, thyroids can't regenerate.

[helvella Administrator Thyroid UK]

It is impossible for us to know what you consider "natural" or "the natural route".

I have tried to answer questions like this before and found the questioner had very different ideas to my answer. It wasn't intentional by me - or them. But help us out by explaining. Please.

greygoose

[Mrs-Dobbs in reply to helvella]

Thank you for you reply, l take 100mg levothyroxine for 6 years which l no longer want to take, l really don't think it has ever made me felt any better. I just want to manage my condition food diet exercise. So far I have just started a gluten free diet this week

[helvella Administrator Thyroid UK in reply to Mrs-Dobbs]

First, have you had any tests recently? Have you got the results?

Second, a story which has been repeated with endless variations goes something like this:

Person decides to stop taking levothyroxine.

For the first few days, they feel better than they have in a long time. (There is a good physiological explanation for this phenomenon.)

Given this positive experience, they naturally think they are on the right path and continue without levothyroxine.

Sometime later, they don't feel as well but carry on without levothyroxine.

Eventually they get a test and see sky high TSH and depressingly low thyroid hormone levels.

Indeed, quite often, the original not feeling the benefit situation gets explained as having not been on a sufficient dose.

(None of this is meant to ignore that some only feel better with liothyronine, desiccated thyroid, some combination, etc. I have just kept to levothyroxine for simplicity.)

I wouldn't like to see you go down this route without at least realising this possibility.

[greygoose in reply to Mrs-Dobbs]

A gluten-free diet can be a very good start. And, it could resolve a lot of your problems. But, if your thyroid is struggling to make enough hormone to keep you well, a gluten-free diet is not going to improve its output.

Do you know why you're hypo? Do you have Hashi's? There are many many causes of hypothyroidism, but they do not inclued lack of exercise. And, whilst poor diet might exacerbate your condition, improving your diet is not going to increase hormone production to the necessary level.

If levo has never done anything for you, it's probably because your dose is too low. 100 mcg is only a small dose. And, it's possible that you can't convert that hormone (T4, which is a storage hormone) to the active hormone, T3. So, the solution is not to stop taking it, but to increase the dose.

The first step to wellness is getting hold of your medical records, or your blood test results for as far back as possible. It's a fair bet that your doctor isn't even doing the right tests - or not enough of them. So, you need to know exactly what's been tested, and exactly what the results were. Then, we can work out the next step to make you well.

I'm afraid that when we're hypo, we can't just sit back and assume that doctor knows best, and he will do all he can to make us well. Because he doesn't, and he won't. We need to be proactive and learn about our disease. That's why forums like this exist. Knowledge is power.

There are quite a few things you can do to help yourself, but stopping your levo isn't one of them.

[Mrs-Dobbs in reply to greygoose]

Thank you for your reply, l think they have put me down as having Hashimos l am going to ask for my blood results Monday, l can't sleep for long 4 to 5 hours that's my worse symptom making me washed out and fogged out. It's odd they have never decreased or increased my dose. Another thing l can't belive how many people are diagnosed with this disease, my daughter in law her mum, 3 friends at work and one of there daughters and also my closest friend. All but my closest friend and daughter in law have said they don't feel any different with there meds.

[greygoose in reply to Mrs-Dobbs]

Well, they won't feel any different if they're not on the right dose. It's not like aspirin, it's not the fact of taking it that improves things, it's taking the right amount.

With levo you have to start on a low dose and work up slowly until all the symptoms have gone. But, very few doctors understand that. They think that all they have to do is get the TSH back somewhere in-range, and their job is done. They don't even know what the symptoms of hypo are. I'm afraid that hypo patients have to know about their disease, how the treatment works, etc. to get a high enough dose to make them well.

[helvella Administrator Thyroid UK in reply to Mrs-Dobbs]

Poor sleep was a symptom I had. And one of the first to resolve - or at least start resolving - as I started levothyroxine and got the dose right for me.

I now sleep very soundly pretty much all the time.

[Annacat69]

What´s the reason you were put on levo in the first place? In my own experience, it´s not something a doctor would prescribe unless you had a very high TSH and low FT4 levels. Borderline hypothyroidism is not something most conventional doctors consider treating, which makes me suspect you have been diagnosed with full-blown hypothyroidism (which, in my understanding, means a TSH >10 in the UK)?Have you been diagnosed with Hashimoto´s/autoimmune hypothyroidism?

Some natural doctors/naturopaths claim you can heal your thyroid back to health, or even reverse Hashimoto´s disease by lowering antibody levels, thus reducing the autoimmune attack and the need for medication. But, to my knowledge, once there has been damage to the thyroid gland (which is normally the case at the time of diagnosis if you have autoimmune thyroiditis), you need replacement hormone.

If you don´t feel better, it may be because you are on too low of a dose.

Have you had your free Ts (free T3 and T4) tested along with the TSH?

[Mrs-Dobbs in reply to Annacat69]

I recently had my yearly bloods done, was told they will be in touch if abnormal which is what they usually do. I will ask my specific result on Monday.

[helvella Administrator Thyroid UK in reply to Mrs-Dobbs]

Make sure you get the reference intervals (ranges) - they vary too much to allow interpretation without the actual ranges from the lab that did the tests.

[Mrs-Dobbs in reply to Mrs-Dobbs]

Thank you for you reply Anna

[Annacat69 in reply to Mrs-Dobbs]

"Abnormal" usually only means out of range which is not enough...many people on levo need a rather low TSH (1 or lower), while many doctors are happy with a TSH anywhere in range. Many on levo need FT4 levels close to or at the upper normal limit, not just anywhere in range. And you need to know your free T3 levels as well (many doctors only test the TSH) to know if you convert T4 well enough. If your FT3 levels are suboptimal you are hypothyroid.Have you had thyroid antibodies (anti-TPO) and anti-thyroglobulin tested? Elevated levels are indicative of autoimmune thyroiditis.

[SlowDragon Administrator]

Just testing TSH is completely inadequate when on levothyroxine ....and that’s very likely all that GP tests

You are legally entitled to printed copies of your blood test results and ranges.

The best way to get access to current and historic blood test results is to register for online access to your medical record and blood test results

UK GP practices are supposed to offer everyone online access for blood test results. Ring and ask if this is available and apply to do so if possible, if it is you may need "enhanced access" to see blood results.

Link re access

healthunlocked.com/thyroidu...

In reality many GP surgeries do not have blood test results online yet

Alternatively ring receptionist and request printed copies of results. Allow couple of days and then go and pick up.

Important to see exactly what has been tested and equally important what hasn’t been tested yet

For full Thyroid evaluation you need TSH, FT4 and FT3 plus both TPO and TG thyroid antibodies tested. Also EXTREMELY important to test vitamin D, folate, ferritin and B12 at least annually

Low vitamin levels are extremely common, especially if you have autoimmune thyroid disease (Hashimoto's) diagnosed by raised Thyroid antibodies

What vitamin supplements are you currently taking

Ask GP to test vitamin levels

Do you always get same brand of levothyroxine

Which brand

Recommended on here that all thyroid blood tests should ideally be done as early as possible in morning and before eating or drinking anything other than water .

Last dose of Levothyroxine 24 hours prior to blood test. (taking delayed dose immediately after blood draw).

This gives highest TSH, lowest FT4 and most consistent results. (Patient to patient tip)

Is this how you do your tests?

Private tests are available as NHS currently rarely tests Ft3 or thyroid antibodies or all relevant vitamins

List of private testing options

thyroiduk.org/getting-a-dia...

Medichecks Thyroid plus antibodies and vitamins

medichecks.com/products/adv...

Thriva Thyroid plus antibodies and vitamins By DIY fingerpick test

thriva.co/tests/thyroid-test

Thriva also offer just vitamin testing

Blue Horizon Thyroid Premium Gold includes antibodies, cortisol and vitamins by DIY fingerprick test

bluehorizonbloodtests.co.uk...

If you can get GP to test vitamins and antibodies then cheapest option for just TSH, FT4 and FT3

£29 (via NHS private service ) and 10% off down to £26.10 if go on thyroid uk for code

thyroiduk.org/getting-a-dia...

monitormyhealth.org.uk/

NHS easy postal kit vitamin D test £29 via

vitamindtest.org.uk

[Mrs-Dobbs in reply to SlowDragon]

Thanks for your reply, l am going to ask for my results on Monday.

[Mrs-Dobbs in reply to Mrs-Dobbs]

I take multivitamins, vitamin D cod liver oil magnisium and just started a gluten free diet.

[greygoose in reply to Mrs-Dobbs]

Ah, the multivitamins could be part of the problem!

You shouldn't be taking a multivitamin anyway for all sorts of reasons.

* If your multi contains iron, it will block the absorption of all the vitamins - you won't absorb a single one! Iron should be taken at least two hours away from any other supplement except vit C, which is necessary to aid absorption of iron, and protect the stomach.

* If your multi also contains calcium, the iron and calcium will bind together and you won't be able to absorb either of them.

* Multi's often contain things you shouldn't take or don't need : calcium, iodine, copper. These things should be tested before supplementing.

* Multi's often contain the cheapest, least absorbable form of the supplement : magnesium oxide, instead of magnesium citrate or one of the other good forms; cyanocobalamin instead of methylcobalamin; folic acid instead of methylfolate; etc. etc. etc. This is especially true of supermarket multis.

* Multi's do not contain enough of anything to help a true deficiency, even if you could absorb them.

* When taking several supplements, you should start them individually at two weekly intervals, not all at once as you would with a multi. Because, if you start them all at once, and something doesn't agree with you, you won't know which one it is and you'll be back to square one.

* Most supplements should be taken at least two hours away from thyroid hormone, but some - iron, vit D, magnesium and calcium (should you really need to take it) should be taken at least four hours away from thyroid hormone.

* The magnesium you take - and just about everybody needs to take it - should be chosen according to what you want it to do:

Magnesium citrate: mild laxative, best for constipation.

Magnesium taurate: best for cardiovascular health.

Magnesium malate: best for fatigue – helps make ATP energy.

Magnesium glycinate: most bioavailable and absorbable form, non-laxative.

Magnesium chloride: for detoxing the cells and tissues, aids kidney function and can boost a sluggish metabolism.

Magnesium carbonate: good for people suffering with indigestion and acid reflux as it contains antacid properties.

Worst forms of magnesium: oxide, sulphate, glutamate and aspartate.

With a multivitamin, you are just throwing your money down the drain, at best, and doing actual harm at worst. Far better to get tested for vit D, vit B12, folate and ferritin, and build up your supplementation program based on the results. A vitamin or a mineral is only going to help you if you need it, anyway. More of something you don’t need is not better, it's either pointless or even dangerous, as with iodine, calcium, iron or vit D.

[Mrs-Dobbs in reply to greygoose]

Thank you for the advice l take magnisium to help with sleep? When l wake up to early I'm often anxious and my mind goes into overdrive worrying about nothing really

[greygoose in reply to Mrs-Dobbs]

That's a hypo symptom. Pretty certain your dose is too low.

[SlowDragon Administrator]

Yes hypothyroidism is extremely common, levothyroxine is the third most prescribed medication in U.K.

There are approximately 2 million people in U.K. on levothyroxine, 90% are female

But many GP’s don’t realise that dose levothyroxine needs to be fine tuned and essential for all vitamins to be at good levels

Roughly 90% of primary hypothyroidism is autoimmune thyroid disease also called Hashimoto’s and yes strictly gluten free diet often helps or is absolutely essential ......but you still need to be taking replacement thyroid hormones

Dose may need fine tuning

[Faithoverfear4]

I understand wanting to get off the meds and go more natural. I want to find out WHY my thyroid quit working . There needs to be a cause. It could be, liver issues, low iodine, or estrogen/ progesterone out of balance. But most Doctors don't tell us this, most just treat our symptoms. I highly recommend checking out Dr. Berg DC on YouTube, he is amazing! I only found him 2 weeks ago. But with his advice from his thyroid videos,I added more sea kelp, which contains iodine and selenium. Which is needed to convert t4 to t3 (t3 is actually what our body uses). I like his sea kelp better than the other 2 brands I have tried.

I am hopeful I can find the root cause and go off of the meds. I have hashimotos and am taking a supplement with actual thyroid pieces (bovine) in it in hopes my immune system will attack that verses my actual thyroid, giving my thyroid a chance to heal. I learned that from Dr.Berg DC YouTube videos too. Here is one link, but he has hundreds on thyroid.

youtu.be/pm49uFWTYBI(Not working as expected?)

I hope you find his information as helpful as I have, Good luck!!

🙂