Hashi's natural treatment

[Daisypinks]

Hi, just wondering if anyone on here has controlled their hashi's with no thyroxine? I'm actually a student naturopath (NZ not UK) diagnosed a year ago, and have been doing well as long as I keep off gluten and stress levels down, as well as take my herbs and keep diet high anti-inflammatory. However a recent inadvertent gluten exposure combined with end of semester stress has lead to a full blown flare up. Which has left me questioning my decision to go the natural route. Just looking for others experiences, both positive and negative to help with my decision. Thanks in advance 😊

[radd]

Daisypinks,

Welcome to our forum.

Depending on how far advanced your hypothyroidism is will determine if you need thyroid hormone replacement or not. Although Hashimotos directly influences the amount of hormone by destruction of the thyroid gland, hypothyroidism and Hashimotos are two separate conditions.

It is thought that thyroid hormone replacement can help to suppress Hashi attacks but if you are initiating your trigger then thyroid antibodies will rise regardless.

Once you are on thyroid hormone replacement it is for life (usually) as a combination of the thyroid becoming a little lazy and the progressive destruction of the thyroid gland will cause hormone levels to decrease.

Because Hashimotos causes the immune system to be in a heightened state, many experience an over reaction to gluten (and possibly dairy). Adrenal fatigue and gut problems are common too but knowing of a Hashimoto diagnosis early (before the thyroid gland is too damaged) gives scope to reduce antibodies and slow the progression.

I read that some have even managed to halt the disease and encourage normal thyroid function avoiding the need for hormone replacement (which for a subset of people doesn't work easily). Optimal nutrients will help the bodies immune responses to dampen, and slow the progression. Supplementing selenium has not only been shown to reduce TPOAb but encourages the T4-T3 conversion of thyroid hormones. You may want to look into thyroid support such as Iodine, Tyrosine and thyroid & adrenal glandulars.

An excellent read is "The Root Cause" by Isabel Wentz. I wish you well and commend your taking this decision so seriously.

[Daisypinks in reply to radd]

Thanks, yes that was my understanding. Due to my Pathophysiology class last year I was diagnosed very early, as I was able to recognise the (admittedly early -grade and minor compared to others) symptoms. And thought I should be able to control the antibodies given my training. I am taking a good quality thyroid supplement and herbs to help stress response and was feeling good until this recent few weeks, it was such an obvious and immediate drop in mood, energy, digestive motility and my hair coming out in handfuls again that I was thinking I may have been mistaken so it is encouraging that others have been able to do it. Thanks again for your reply, I'll look out that book.

[Josiesmum in reply to Daisypinks]

Low ferritin can cause hair loss, apparently level needs to be over 80 to grow new hair. If possible, get tested for iron, ferritin, vitamin D & B12 and post the results.

Also consider selenium:

thyroidpharmacist.com/artic...

[Daisypinks in reply to Josiesmum]

Hi josiemum,

Thanks for your answer

I'm on an iron supplement as a huge aneamia/menorrhagia crash was the first sign I had in this journey (1 year ago) at the time my ferritin was 10, and yes I was crippled by it. I haven't had it retested since late last year when it had come back up to late 20s (in range according to docs!!! We know different!!) Haven't had vit D or B12 done as they are stingy with funded tests here. However I'm about to go and pay for another round of thyroid antibody/ free t4/t3 tests at the same time as getting the dr to re run TSH and do coeliac screening as my niece has recently been diagnosed (though know I'll need to consume gluten for a while longer and not sure I want too do this). Anyhow good point I'll pay for the D & B12 too.

I take a thyroid and adrenal support sup that contains Selenium, tyrosine, b complex including 1000mcg of B12, D, Zinc, iodine, and the herb rehmania (for adrenals) I also take iron bisglycinate, a liquid herbal formula that contains ashwaganda, liquorice, lavender, tulsi and a seperate bitters formula for digestion. My diet is loosely autoimmune protocol, I am playing with it a bit but it remains free of gluten (except recent exp) solanums sugar and grains.

Despite small appetite very good diet with zero junk and regular exercise I can not loose weight. This is my main reason for considering thyroxine - so vein, but feel I can control other symptoms most of the time but am sick of being a hefelump.

Thanks also for your earlier reply - I will read the journal article at it once I have submitted the assignment I'm working on. Sound interesting,

[greygoose in reply to radd]

"Supplementing selenium has not only been shown to reduce TPOAb but encourages the T4-T3 conversion..."

Hi Radd, that's interesting. Are you saying that selenium has no effect on TgAB, then?

[Daisypinks in reply to greygoose]

Hi greygoose

I asked them question (to myself) It's old but.... joe.endocrinology-journals....

I'm going to search for more up to date once I'm out of this assignment wood!

[Daisypinks in reply to Daisypinks]

**the same not them.... Obviously dumb phone!

[radd in reply to Daisypinks]

DP,

Great article on deiodinases and antioxidants, etc that takes a bit of digesting but states ...[ .. Se supplements had no significant effect on the concentration of thyroglobulin antibodies ... ] ...

Not right or wrong as who am I to challenge ? ? ... ....... but once again contradictory advice.

[radd in reply to greygoose]

gg,

Sorry for delay …. this question is one I have pondered myself as read contradicting articles on the presence of selenium decreasing TGAb (but UK sun dictates sunbathing whilst reading romance as opposed to thyroid antibody contemplation//investigations ! ! .. … ;o))) .. ) …

We know our thyroid glands (like to) retain high levels of selenium concentrations to aid iodination but also and importantly to neutralise oxidative damage caused by the thyroid peroxidase enzyme which oxidases iodide ions to form iodine.

In low selenium, free radicals can damage the thyroid cells and so attract infiltrating lymphocytes in thyroid tissue, producing inflammation and further destruction to the thyroid gland (Hashi attack).

Therefore, supplementing selenium neutralises the excess hydrogen peroxide, calming the reactive immune response and lowering antibodies. Marz posted a Suzie Cohen link on reactive oxidative damage caused by excessive H2O2 in the thyroid gland the other day.

TPOAbs & TGAbs don't directly attack thyroid tissue but cause a signalling to the immune system to attack. Isabella Wentz (her with the beautiful smiley face) explains in her book how in a study on mice …[ … Selenium reduced TGAb tiers and increased the number of circulating T reg cells that help the immune system recognise itself and prevent the lymphocytic infiltration of the thyroid … ] … Therefore, we can conclude that supplementing Selenium in those who are deficient, can decrease TGAb.

There is much data on selenium having several modifying effects on the immune system and loads of the effect on TPOAbs but apart from a mention in Izabella’s book, I have not found creditable data regarding a TGAb reduction and so (as only a fellow Hashi sufferer) conclude that supplementing selenium does decrease TGAb but maybe more as a secondary action as reducing any elevated antibodies (such as TPOAb) must be beneficial in the whole of the thyroid health.… but who knows ? ? … What are your thoughts on this ? ? ….. Do you have any data ? ? …

On a side note …. amongst these selenoproteins is the glutathione peroxidase which also neutralises the hydrogen peroxide and is made from glutathione and selenium. I recently chelated after mercury removal (amalgam) and don't have the glutathione gene (a major handicap).

Mercury is a major thyroid disrupting chemical but selenium (& glutathione) protect the thyroid by binding to mercury and making it completely inert. I supplement loads of antioxidants as preventing oxidative damage keeps us BEAUTIFUL ! ! ! .. … ;o))))) …. .. Rock the antioxidants ! ! ! … ... :o)) … & selenium.

[greygoose in reply to radd]

OK, I guess I'll have to go back to the selenium supplementation, then! lol I really don't know much about this subject. But, I never found taking selenium did much for me at all.

My TGAB were the high ones, not the TPOab.

[Josiesmum]

This study appears to indicate that thyroxine can reduce antibodies:

airitilibrary.com/Publicati...

[Clutter]

Daisypinks,

There doesn't appear to be any treatment for Hashimoto's. Levothyroxine is prescribed to replace the low thyroid hormone caused by Hashimoto's. Progression to hypothyroid may be slowed by gluten-free diet and perhaps other dietary and lifestyle changes but if Hashi's has already caused hypothyroidism it can't be reversed and you will need replacement.

I think having a flare up after being 'glutened' and experiencing end of term stress shows your regime was working well and is worth sticking to but you may need thyroid replacement in addition.

chriskresser.com/the-gluten...

thyroiduk.org.uk/tuk/about_...

[Daisypinks in reply to Clutter]

Thanks Clutter, I think that's what I was asking as these are pretty obviously hypo symptoms... hair was suddenly falling out heaps more than my normal handfuls, plus all the rest - down, sleeping 12 plus hours still tired, can't be bothered doing anything even having a shower unless I have to, constipated and dyspepsia and cholecystitis symptoms again, thick as a brick sh*t house brain, (excuse the kiwi vernacular) killing sore muscles despite no exercise and neuralgia- in my head!! Ouch!! (Thank god for oestopathy) any way am going to get retested to see were I'm sitting. My diagnosis was with an intergretative doc, my GP didn't believe I was hypo as second test showed normalised TSH (only just and this was after 4 months on the protocol I told josiemum about before) tho all markers were way outta range the first time. So will post if you are interested I think I'll consider the levothyroxine if the markers are down again.

[Clutter in reply to Daisypinks]

Daisypinks,

Post the results with ranges in a new question as updates get over looked.

It underwhelms me when doctors tell patients TSH 4.8 in range 0.35-5.0 is normal so symptoms are non-thyroidal, but TSH 5.1 is hypothyroid. In UK doctors also dismiss euthyroid Hashi symptoms as non-thyroidal

[Daisypinks in reply to Clutter]

Will do, I'm away from home at college until the end of the month but will go to my GP when I'll get home. Can totally get how an update can get missed and will be interested to know others think to help my learning. Ta!

[Greenwall]

I'm on steep learning curve so don't take my comments as gospel.

However, there is a book 'Hope for Hashimoto's', which suggests that with right nutrients, you can control it without thyroxine. See - hopeforhashimotos.com/dr-al... Whether it works or not, I've no idea.

[Daisypinks in reply to Greenwall]

Thanks greenwall, me too on learning curve. I will check it out. I'm signed up for healing hashi's summit that's happening online next week too.

[eddison21]

Think I am having a flare up of hyperthyroid. It is still untreated. Has anyone any suggestions please for a quick fix for the ra cing heart. I am prescibed cardicor for long qt. 1.25 mgms a day. Ids this also prescribed for hyperthyroidism ?

[Clutter in reply to eddison21]

Welcome to the forum, Eddison21,

Caldicor is a beta blocker which should regulate a racing heart. Beta Blockers may lower thyroid levels slightly but if your symptoms have become worse you should go back to your GP.

[Saggyuk]

I would definately stick to trying the natural way - the pills will never work as well as your own body which can react instantanteously and if things like gluten are triggering your immune system (which is suggested by how well you were doing) it probably wont stop at your thyroid. You are lucky you figured it out early as it is difficult to reverse the damage after so many years like myself. I have been ill most of my life, thyroid went and a multiple other illnesses that they diagnose that generally mean they don't know why. I gave up listening to the doctors and studied biology/medicine for myself and read up on recent research and worked out gluten was likely to be the main trigger. I came off it and haven't looked back as made such a difference. My thyroid meds have dropped quite a bit since then and most other things have dissappeared, such as pompholyx, IBS, sleep disorders, diabetes etc etc etc but doubt i'll ever reverse it all, just glad I stopped it getting worse as I was about to have to start on a whole new load of meds on top. I test negative for coeliac but now have an official diagnosis of something they have no name for yet but the same as coeliac but diagnostically different as managed to prove it to the NHS and have hopefully prevented my daughter from suffering the same problems. If it helps you to stick to it, when I have gluten accidently, everything comes back and I become hypothyroid and it takes approximately three months for my immune system reaction to die down and my thyroid tests to become normal again so just give it time. I think for some people, it can take longer. However, I am not at all saying you shouldn't get the meds, if you need them, you need them but even if you do need them in the end, you should still stick to what you're doing as you don't want to risk your autoimmunity getting worse and worse over the years giving you multiple problems. Bear in mind, this is only my opinion and you should do what you decide regardless lol.Hope you feel better soon though :o)

[Daisypinks]

Thank you Saggyuk, very helpful, it's so easy to feel really down on everything when in the midst of it, and forget that between time one feels good. Good to have encouragement - thanks 😊