Thyroid & CKD link: Hi all Following on from... - Thyroid UK

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Thyroid & CKD link

Bacca profile image
9 Replies

Hi all

Following on from previous post thread.

GP phone app. Agreed to blood tests, v run down & recurring tonsilitus. Not on any meds.

Results

HbA1c level 41mmol

TSH 5.55 mu/L 0.27-4.20mu/L

FT4 14.4pmol/L 9.00-26pmol/L

Serum B12 257ng/L 191.00 -63ng/L

Folate 4.5ug/L 3.3 - 19.3 ug/L

Ferritin 13 ug/L 15 - 350ug/L

GFR 53 mL/min/1.73m2

Creatinine 96umol/L

CKD stage 3

Doctor put me on Levothyroxine 50mcg and told me to take over counter iron. Then said did anyone ever say you had a kidney issue? Answer no.

She didnt test any other vits, and said kidney issue no action yet review in 6 months.

My vit D 33nmol/L 75-175nmol/L Private test

active B12 25pmol/L 37.5-188pmol/L

If there is a link with hypothyroid and kidneys, will they recover with thyroid & iron treatment.

Have read an article suggesting Low T3 affects kidneys.

Should I be looking to add T3 to Levo in future?

Any one any experience with this?

Levo is 'Teva' taken since Monday, bit gassy that normal?

Ive read Teva can be problematic on here.....

Any further tests i should do?

There was no mention of cealiac test or B12 suplementation.

All guidance graciously received....

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Bacca
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9 Replies
SlowDragon profile image
SlowDragonAdministrator

First and obvious thing is what has GP done about absolutely DIRE B12 levels

You should have urgently had full testing for Pernicious Anaemia before starting on B12 injections

Make another appointment and insist on further testing before starting on B12 injections or possibly daily B12 supplements

Low vitamin D obviously needs improving

GP should prescribe 1600iu vitamin D everyday for 6 months

But you may prefer to self supplement- see below

GP will often only prescribe to bring levels to 50nmol.

Some areas will prescribe to bring levels to 75nmol

leedsformulary.nhs.uk/docs/...

GP should advise on self supplementing if over 50nmol, but under 75nmol (but they rarely do)

mm.wirral.nhs.uk/document_u...

NHS Guidelines on dose vitamin D required

ouh.nhs.uk/osteoporosis/use...

But with Hashimoto’s, improving to around 80nmol or 100nmol by self supplementing may be better

ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/218...

vitamindsociety.org/pdf/Vit...

Once you Improve level, very likely you will need on going maintenance dose to keep it there.

Test twice yearly via vitamindtest.org.uk

Vitamin D mouth spray by Better You is very effective as it avoids poor gut function. There’s a version made that also contains vitamin K2 Mk7

It’s trial and error what dose we need, with hashimoto’s we frequently need higher dose than average

Calculator for working out dose you may need to bring level to 40ng/ml = 100nmol

grassrootshealth.net/projec...

Government recommends everyone supplement October to April

gov.uk/government/news/phe-...

Taking too much vitamin D is not a good idea

chriskresser.com/vitamin-d-...

With your Vit D, are you also taking it's important cofactors - magnesium and Vit K2-MK7?

Magnesium best taken in the afternoon or evening, but must be four hours away from levothyroxine

betterbones.com/bone-nutrit...

medicalnewstoday.com/articl...

livescience.com/61866-magne...

sciencedaily.com/releases/2...

Vitamin K2 mk7

betterbones.com/bone-nutrit...

healthline.com/nutrition/vi...

SlowDragon profile image
SlowDragonAdministrator

Request GP does FULL iron panel test for anaemia

You shouldn’t just take OTC iron supplements with BELOW RANGE ferritin

And you need to request coeliac blood test done by GP

Suggest you consider seeing a different GP.

Yes CKD is strongly linked to being hypothyroid and should improve as dose levothyroxine is increased

ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articl...

50mcg levothyroxine is only a starter dose.

Bloods should be retested 6-8 weeks after each dose increase

Many people find Levothyroxine brands are not interchangeable.

Many patients do NOT get on well with Teva brand of Levothyroxine. Teva contains mannitol as a filler, which seems to be possible cause of problems. Teva is the only brand that makes 75mcg tablet. So if avoiding Teva for 75mcg dose ask for 25mcg to add to 50mcg or just extra 50mcg tablets to cut in half

Teva, Aristo and Glenmark are the only lactose free tablets

healthunlocked.com/thyroidu...

Teva poll

healthunlocked.com/thyroidu...

Once you find a brand that suits you, best to make sure to only get that one at each prescription.

Watch out for brand change when dose is increased or at repeat prescription.

academic.oup.com/jcem/artic...

Physicians should: 1) alert patients that preparations may be switched at the pharmacy; 2) encourage patients to ask to remain on the same preparation at every pharmacy refill; and 3) make sure patients understand the need to have their TSH retested and the potential for dosing readjusted every time their LT4 preparation is switched (18).

Levothyroxine is an extremely fussy hormone and should always be taken on an empty stomach and then nothing apart from water for at least an hour after

Many people take Levothyroxine soon after waking, but it may be more convenient and perhaps more effective taken at bedtime

verywellhealth.com/best-tim...

No other medication or supplements at same as Levothyroxine, leave at least 2 hour gap.

Some like iron, calcium, magnesium, HRT, omeprazole or vitamin D should be four hours away

(Time gap doesn't apply to Vitamin D mouth spray)

If you normally take levothyroxine at bedtime/in night ...adjust timings as follows prior to blood test

If testing Monday morning, delay Saturday evening dose levothyroxine until Sunday morning. Delay Sunday evening dose levothyroxine until after blood test on Monday morning. Take Monday evening dose levothyroxine as per normal

SlowDragon profile image
SlowDragonAdministrator

Should I be looking to add T3 to Levo in future?

No ........At this stage you need to get levothyroxine dose increased slowly upwards in 25mcg steps until on or around full replacement dose

And work on improving extremely low vitamin levels

Levothyroxine is Ft4 and is converted into Ft3

For good conversion of Ft4 to ft3 we need optimal vitamin levels

And adequate dose of levothyroxine

Frequently strictly gluten free diet helps or is essential

guidelines on dose levothyroxine by weight

Even if we frequently don’t start on full replacement dose, most people need to increase levothyroxine dose slowly upwards in 25mcg steps (retesting 6-8 weeks after each increase) until on or around full replacement dose

NICE guidelines on full replacement dose

nice.org.uk/guidance/ng145/...

1.3.6

Consider starting levothyroxine at a dosage of 1.6 micrograms per kilogram of body weight per day (rounded to the nearest 25 micrograms) for adults under 65 with primary hypothyroidism and no history of cardiovascular disease.

gp-update.co.uk/Latest-Upda...

Traditionally we have tended to start patients on a low dose of levothyroxine and titrate it up over a period of months.

RCT evidence suggests that for the majority of patients this is not necessary and may waste resources.

For patients aged >60y or with ischaemic heart disease, start levothyroxine at 25–50μg daily and titrate up every 3 to 6 weeks as tolerated.

For ALL other patients start at full replacement dose. For most this will equate to 1.6 μg/kg/day (approximately 100μg for a 60kg woman and 125μg for a 75kg man).

If you are starting treatment for subclinical hypothyroidism, this article advises starting at a dose close to the full treatment dose on the basis that it is difficult to assess symptom response unless a therapeutic dose has been trialled.

A small Dutch double-blind cross-over study (ArchIntMed 2010;170:1996) demonstrated that night time rather than morning dosing improved TSH suppression and free T4 measurements, but made no difference to subjective wellbeing. It is reasonable to take levothyroxine at night rather than in the morning, especially for individuals who do not eat late at night.

BMJ also clear on dose required

bmj.com/content/368/bmj.m41

bestpractice.bmj.com/topics...

SlowDragon profile image
SlowDragonAdministrator

HbA1c level 41mmol

Do you eat high carb diet

This is borderline pre-diabetic

May improve as get on levothyroxine. But many people find lower carb diet helpful

NHS B12 and folate results

Serum B12 257ng/L 191.00 -63ng/L

Folate 4.5ug/L 3.3 - 19.3 ug/L

Both are within range, but low

Active B12 test done privately well below range.

If GP refuses to do more testing you may have to just self supplement

supplementing a good quality daily vitamin B complex, one with folate in (not folic acid) may be beneficial.

This can help keep all B vitamins in balance and will help improve B12 levels too

Difference between folate and folic acid

chriskresser.com/folate-vs-...

Many Hashimoto’s patients have MTHFR gene variation and can have trouble processing folic acid.

thyroidpharmacist.com/artic...

B vitamins best taken after breakfast

Igennus Super B is good quality and cheap vitamin B complex. Contains folate. Full dose is two tablets per day. Many/most people may only need one tablet per day. Certainly only start on one per day (or even half tablet per day for first couple of weeks)

Or Thorne Basic B is another option that contain folate, but is large capsule

If you are taking vitamin B complex, or any supplements containing biotin, remember to stop these 7 days before ALL BLOOD TESTS , as biotin can falsely affect test results

endo.confex.com/endo/2016en...

endocrinenews.endocrine.org...

Low B12 symptoms

b12deficiency.info/signs-an...

With such low B12 result taking a B12 supplement as well as a B Complex (to balance all the B vitamins) initially for first 2-4 months, then once your serum B12 is over 500 (or Active B12 level has reached 70), stop the B12 and just carry on with the B Complex.

B12 sublingual lozenges

amazon.co.uk/Jarrow-Methylc...

cytoplan.co.uk/vitamins/vit...

Bacca profile image
Bacca in reply toSlowDragon

Thank you so much Slow Dragon.

Starting to feel a bit more human on Levo. Iv'e ordered the vits and have decided to test privately for coeliac and PA - think this Doc seems to be treating 'one' issue at a time.

I did tell her I had approx 10 books on thyroid & she admitted not knowing that much and agreed on the Levo, so i want to keep her on side!

(i just lost the energy/confidence following their suggestions as can be conflicting advice, until i found you guys)

Hopefully as thyroid gains function kidney will improve.

My father has kidney issue and I'm now suspecting he has thyroid issue and hashimotos, don't think they ever checked, but i am going to look into it. His energy levels are v low too.

I always thought I had thyroid issue inherited from my mother!

As Partner20 suggests lots of monitoring as dad has.....but as the kidney people on the other site here suggest, diet seems to be a major factor, so i'll be following their guidelines for myself n dad.

Thank you again for all you do.......xxx

You must def be on top of your energy levels!!

SlowDragon profile image
SlowDragonAdministrator in reply toBacca

Yes fully recovered....walking 10-15,000 steps a day.... busy digging in garden this afternoon

Couldn’t have recovered without help on here.....more on my profile...only took 28 years!

Partner20 profile image
Partner20

Regarding your CKD that you were unaware of, the kidneys can be impacted by hypothyroidism, so hopefully any damage caused will be stabilised or even reversed when your thyroid levels optimise. However, you should be having your GFR, creatinine, potassium and sodium levels regularly checked, and your blood sugar levels should be monitored, too, so that diabetes does not become an issue. Once these things start to occur, it simply means that regular tests become a way of life, so you can prevent them from getting worse. You may be referred to the kidney unit, too.

Bacca profile image
Bacca in reply toPartner20

Thank you Partner 20

I got a real shock when CKD 3 came up.

After looking at our Kidney issue friends site, I'm going to be investigating best diet options going forward for me & my dad!

Many thanks x

Partner20 profile image
Partner20 in reply toBacca

Sounds like a good plan. Wishing you well in the future.🙂

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