Hi So I had a private GP appointment yesterday whereby I'm not underactive, but my B12 is low. He told me to start 1000ug. Problem I've got is I drink caffeine in the mornings.....whether that's black coffee or coca cola as I Nedd to wake up so badly as I'm also going through a withdrawal from my antidepressant.
I googled food and drink you shouldn't have if taking B12and it said caffeine.
Now I've only taken thus since yesterday and there has been around 3 hours yesterday from my last mouth full to taking the b12.
Today I left it 5 hours as I'm scared it will affect t absorption.
I Contacted the Dr who saw me who replied in an email that the beauty of taking this at the dose I'm on...means it won't affect absorption..
I've been careful with eating times too....leaving 3 hours after eating to take it, then I'm leaving 1 hour 40 until evening meal.
Can you tell me if me taking it around 2-3pm is OK? Cos I saw on Google best time to take is in the morning but I need to take caffeine first thing at 6.15. Please advise x
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With serum B12 result below 500, (Or active B12 below 70) recommended to be taking a separate B12 supplement
A week later add a separate vitamin B Complex
Then once your serum B12 is over 500 (or Active B12 level has reached 70), you may be able to reduce then stop the B12 and just carry on with the B Complex.
If Vegetarian or vegan likely to need ongoing separate B12 few times a week
B complex also best taken after breakfast
Igennus B complex popular option. Nice small tablets. Most people only find they need one per day. But a few people find it’s not high enough dose and may need 2 per day and/or may need separate methyl folate couple times a week
Thorne Basic B recommended vitamin B complex that contains folate, but they are large capsules. (You can tip powder out if can’t swallow capsule) Thorne can be difficult to find at reasonable price, should be around £20-£25. iherb.com often have in stock. Or try ebay
IMPORTANT......If you are taking vitamin B complex, or any supplements containing biotin, remember to stop these 5-6 days before ALL BLOOD TESTS , as biotin can falsely affect test results
In week before blood test, when you stop vitamin B complex, you might want to consider taking a separate folate supplement (eg Jarrow methyl folate 400mcg) and continue separate B12 if last test result serum B12 was below 500 or active B12 (private test) under 70
Hi slow dragon..so I took my vitamin bloods with me....the ones I put on here.He said I'm low in folate and B12. B12 was 212 folate 4 9.
Other question I have is today I've had terrible fatigue.....now I'm going through a withdrawal from antidepressant and I have had some fatigue but nothing to today's scale.
Any chance this 1000ug could be too high for me,? I know I have to see how I am tomorrow but today's been awful.
I've also bought those drops ...but I'm not sure which to take? I didn't tell the Dr I had the drops also. I just took along all my different B12 tablets and he said the 1000ug. So you say after breakfast.....what about my caffeine that I drink from 6.15? I have to have it otherwise I'm no good . Most days it picks me up. But it says caffeine doesn't help absorb the B12 .....so should I leave taking it for a couple hrs after the caffeine??
Yes you know I thought that....I read the box it said 13 drops....I thought maybe reduce the drops....it said it works quicker too by getting in the blood stream quicker than tablets
Slowdragon.....I'm taking a day off the b12 today to get that tablet out my system....gonna start drops tomorrow. So can you tell me how good they are? Have they made a real difference to your levels and possible fatigue? If so how quickly do they work? Any side effects?
Thanks....so can u tell me how good these drops are? How quickly did your tiredness and or fatigue lift? Thank you so much . X I'm going to start tomorrow.....taking the day off it today.
Hi So I've just taken my first one drop. When I took the 1000ug tablet on Tuesday at 12 in the Dr's office I was fine, but the next day I was knocked out by fatigue. Was this too high? I took yesterday off any b12 and started this morning.
What affects should I look for if it's too high (they say you shouldn't go too high while in withdrawal) but what's too high? That's the question
Hi hun could I ask....so I'm taking my coke drinks in the morning from 6am till 7, leaving it 3 hours then taking my B12.I'm being cautious as want to get it right lol.
Question is ....am I allowed to have a coffee in the afternoon say 3 hours after taking the b12 or will that do damage to the process? It's just I'm finding I'm getting caffeine crash in the afternoon where my eyes are dropping.
Only asking cis I've read caffeine stops the absorption properly? It's ok if I can't I'd rather the b12 worked as it should.
These effects of foods and drinks on B12 absorption primarily apply to B12 in foods and drinks.
When you take a supplementary form, some - even MOST - of the dose could be affected, and you'd still have the potential to absorb as much as your body can absorb.
Imagine you take 1000 micrograms and even 90% gets affect by tannins or whatever else. That would still leave 100 micrograms for you to absorb.
In almost any case, you would still be able to absorb more than your body is likely to use in a day.
But hun I'm only allowed to take 25ug now ....gunna try one week then hopefully move up to 50.You still think il absorb?
I'm drinking my coke and black coffee between 6am - 7am leaving it 3 hours then taking the b12. Is this sensible or could I take it before the 3 hours?
Plus the drop didn't work out 4 me. My withdrawal didn't like it. I think it was too potent. My moderator in America last night said I told you to start very low at 25ug because in withdrawal our bodies go sensitive to e everything which is shit.
So today I'm back on tablet 25ug for a week then see if I can move to 50ug.
Have you always drank caffeine with your tablet or drops?
Slow dragon.....what's the difference between serum b12 test and active test?I just went on medichecks to buy a b12 test and all they do now is "active b12"
Active B12 is only the B12 attached to holotranscobalamin (not what is attached to holohaptocorrin) as that seems to be the only sort that is usable.
There is significant evidence that Active B12 is better correlated to B12-related issues than serum B12.
Most, possibly all, private tests now use Active B12. And some NHS labs have also converted to Active B12 or at least offer it as an option under some circumstances.
If your result is very high, or very low, it likely doesn't much matter. But somewhere in the low middle, it could be important. E.g. If you have a serum B12 of 350, then have Active B12, that second test could be fine, or low. And you simply cannot know from serum B12 alone. Hence we end up seeing serum B12 test results like that and either missing that the person is low, or suggesting supplementation which might not really be essential.
I'm not on anything yet s the b12 didn't agree with me because of my withdrawal. So I have to wait about 6 days- that's the half life of b12 ....to start very low dose folate with pill cutter.
I'm on an American site and the lady that looks after me warned me about this b12.....alot of people in withdrawal struggle with it as it aggravates .ore withdrawal symptoms if not at a very very low dose.
So if you were me when would you start folate?
My last b12 was on Sunday evening in the form of nutritional yeast......by God the ne t day! I was awful . I put 2 table spoons on my dinner as that's what I'd read. But the lady told me no! You've gone over by y times the limit. It's only meant to be a teaspoon. For God's sake
So how long should I leave it before golate hun? Gunna cut the pill to make 6ug.
Hi I really need you expert advice. So I've had to stop b12 as I'm going through withdrawal and stupidly I trued different doses and it brought on some of the withdrawal symptoms. The lady on the withdrawal site who looks after me warned me to start very very low like 3ug. I thought nah. She wax right. She said in withdrawal our bodies go very sensitive to most things and B12 in her 25 years experience on the site hax shown to be a antagonist to ppl if it's too high .....even at 25ug.....there's something with it that causes anxiety and ppl get reactions to it like I did.
So the last time I took b12 was in the form of nutritional yeast last su day evening which was around 13.8ug
But because the b12 stays in your system halving every 6 days I'm still gunna have it in there a while.
I'm sick of this fatigue a d I want to start the folate as I'm more low in this than b12 and hoping it's more gentle on ppl then the b12.
Me and partner got a pill cutter and are going to make around 3ug. Because I'm so scared it'll cause reactions again.
When do you think I should wait to start this hun? Of my calculations are right....the 1000ug I took on 4th March.....e very 6 days it halves.....so on 21st April il still have 1.95 b12.
That's the longest pill time frame if you get me ....
Hey hun I'm so sorry if I've repeated myself somewhere.....I'm just a bit stuck and wondered if you'd kindly read my message to you below about me starting the folate please ....you're so knowledgeable xxx
But....I can't start the B complex yet as I've been so ill from all the bl2 I've taken over the last week. So what would you do? What til it's out system first?
⁹Hi hun I really coukd do with your help and hopefully reassurance that I'm now OK....I'm going through too much already.So I had thyroid blood test 2 days ago and the free thyroxine has moved up into the green! It's now 12.7 and the TSH is 2.03.
FREE T3 is 5.3.
I just wanted you to reassure me that I don't have undrractive thyroid.
The last test the free thyroxine was getting low at 11.8......the TSH was 1.26 ( no T3 was included in the test as that particular test was a HRT one I chose it just happened to include T4 and TSH.
So the write up from the consultant told me I'm all good, with nothing to be concerned about, all looks healthy as .y Free thyroxine has now moved up.
Please please tell me the DR is correct ....I've had so much bad news and a withdrawal to deal with I got elatedwhen I clicked on the result.
So I can't take b12 at the moment as it's upheaved my withdrawal as I was told it woukd. Haven't taken it since Sunday 9th. Been told to wait to get it out my system or until I feel better that it's not reacting to the withdrawal. I've been advised to eat spinach leaves at a low level level az they are packed with folate. I'm sure that's why my folate bloods we t from 4.9 to 7.3!
But e erything I take has to be very small and low as in 3-4ug. Did you know there are 5.82ug in just 5 spinach leaves ....yes I Nedd to get a life but I thought I'd start low with just a bit of spinach and do it slowly. This withdrawal doesn't like many things like tablets, supplements....so I have to be very careful. The American site which I'm attached to for withdrawal were absolutely correct on this
So what number is a good number in a good test for free thyroxine.....I looked back in my blood tests from 2 years ago they were like 15. Plus when you say good fats what do you eat or recommend to get my numbers up? Thsnk you so much ....I did read extra virgin oil was good??
And.....I saw you can use iodine salt to put on your foods ....iodine helps improve thyroid? That's what the ibternet saud do you know anything about this?
Ok, I've actually booked a private thyroid specialist in London for 29th. Will take all my full blood counts and vitamin ones too. Also my 2 thyroid ones see what he says. So any food you can recommend that could help push my T4 up?
You think the spinach is a good start as it didn't take long at all to increase on my blood test.
Protecting the quality and potency of our products is crucial - and we do this without adding any nasty preservatives.
Instead, we use Miron® violet glass which protects your supplements from harmful rays of light while allowing beneficial visible violet, non-visible UVA, and far-Infrared light to enter.
Preservatives are used to prevent biological contamination - bacterial, viral, fungal.
They are not used to prevent the substance being affected by light.
The company appears to be deliberately conflating two entirely different things: preservative use and degradation due to light.
Unless you positively choose to place the bottle somewhere that there is UVA and far-infrared light, the fact that the glass allows transmission does not seem relevant.
Indeed, you can readily find other sources which say the methyl- and adenosyl- are directly affected by UVA exposure.
You appear to be thinking that if you take a 1000 microgram B12 dose, you will absorb 1000 micrograms.
But the reality is that you are unlikely to absorb more than a tiny percentage. Could be ten micrograms?
It is usually regarded as impossible to over-dose on B12. Certainly, when used as a treatment for smoke inhalation, they infuse a dose five thousand times larger than the 1000 you took. And that can be repeated!
Caffeine might affect absorption but you only actually need a bit less than five micrograms a day (assuming you do not have Pernicious Anaemia). I think the caffeine issue is significant if you are only getting dietary B12 and a reduction in absorption could reduce what you take to less than you need.
Time of dosing is likely unimportant. Remember that Intrinsic Factor is produced in the stomach and is probably highest at/after a meal? Therefore it just might be best to take it close to food.
But with a high dose like 1000, you might well be able to absorb sufficient regardless the time of day, whether you have eaten, or drunk anything. However, maybe leave a small gap from a double espresso?
My other comment shows I am very sceptical of many of the claims of absorption from vendors.
I take B12 every day. - typically somewhere around lunch-time but that is only because that is when my reminder alerts me!
I drink coffee. A big mug of strong coffee first thing and sometimes a double espresso in the afternoon. (And I also drink some tea.)
My B12 is at or above the top of the range. So I am clearly absorbing it from somewhere!
The most important thing is to keep taking it. And see what some future test shows,.
And how low is your B12? Is it low enough that you need to consider the possibility of Pernicious Anaemia? Or just towards the lower end of the reference interval?
Awww thank you so much for your reply, especially reassuring me about the caffeine! My result was 212 (I think)
So I'm sensitive to all sorts of meds. I'm currently going through withdrawal from my antidepressant and I was told if I Nedd vitamins then to start low, which I didn't. So yesterday I was knocked out with fatigue as I believe it was too high.
I've been told on here that the drops are great, so I'm starting tomorrow.
Only 1 drop to start which is 187ug I believe?
So how long after caffeine should I take my drop please?
As I said, I am very sceptical about vendor claims.
I'd probably leave an hour gap from coffee. And that just to be on the safe side.
A B12 level of 212 (assuming that is a serum B12 test) is low, very low but could be in your local reference interval.
If I were you, I wouldn't spend time planning what to do in any detail. I'd try a drop. And if there is no issue, I might decide to take another drop later in the same day. And keep going day by day. As I see it, you need to ensure your B12 at least starts to rise very promptly.
Did you have B9 (folate) tested? It is quite common to be deficient in both B12 and B9.
Awww you're so nice thank you I've been sat here with so much anxiety .....I've been through so .uch you wouldn't believe and I work in broadmoor too. Terrible withdrawal that's lasted up to 10 weeks. Alot of crying, low mood .
Anyway my folate was 4.9
The Dr said start this at 400ug one month later.
But, on the American site I joined that deal in withdrawal the moderator warned me and said please don't start high as people in withdrawal have a sensitive body now, not like they used to and bot I found that out yesterday.
She warned me 1000ug was too high .
So that's why I'm starting the drops hun.
You're right I've been sat here writing down what time for this, what time for the drop etc.
So you think around 2 hours after caffeine the eat say 2-3 hours after the drop?
I take methylcobalamin and have tried adenosylcobalamin and hydroxocobalamin. All just one of the many ordinary oral forms. And a couple of combinations. Not sure it makes any difference to me.
Some products might have said they are sub-lingual or whatever. But, to a large extent, that means they taste nice!
And dosages from 500 to 2500. Most often, 1000. Again, not sure it makes any difference to me.
Ahh ok....I've sadly found today the drop is too much for me. It's because I'm going through withdrawal you see our bodies are sensitive to anything ....about 20 mins after me taking ut I git fatigue. I googled it and yes even though it's not classed as a high dose, it is for me.
So I'm back to the tablets, got lots here. So I guess il have to start at 100 see how I go.
morning Vicky567 . I’ve been reading this post with interest. I’m not an expert but all the advice on here from the longstanding members is always brilliant.
However for what it’s worth here is my take on your situation.
I have chronic anxiety disorders and have been taking antidepressants for 25yrs along with many other medications for anxiety ( see my bio for history). Coming off antidepressants can be difficult if you reduce too much too soon. If your anxiety has been become worse it may be that you need to slow down with this withdrawal. It’s a long process.
As for b12. I’ve just swigged mine down with my third strong coffee this morning ( it’s a Saturday so I allow myself an extra one 😬). I don’t have any caffeine after about 10 am usually.
I must be absorbing as my b12 has risen to a good level.
I may be making assumptions here so my apologies if I offend you but you seem to be worrying too much about your vitamin intake. By that I mean when to take it and side effects. I can understand why you are worrying. I am very sensitive to anything I take and it can be scary 😟. But please trust the advice that helvella and SlowDragon have given you.
As for the anti depressant withdrawal I will give you an example of how I have done it in the past. Sertraline 100 mgs ………. 100/100/75/100/100/75….. for a month. Then 100/75/100/75/100/75…. For a month… and so on. Can you see how slow the reduction is? Drs in this country advise far too quick a reduction and I have suffered very badly in the past from using their method.
I’m not really sure what you mean by too sensitive being in withdrawal? I’ve never noticed any sensitivity to vitamins when withdrawing from anti depressants. And I am sensitive to everything 🤷♀️
Yeah I was told by an American website that specialises in withdrawal that our bodies become very sensitive to most things. Like you can't take vitamins like you used to fir example. Thos is shat happened to me when I tried 1000ug Tuesday (but I got the awful fatigue the day after- worse than I've ever felt) and it does say on the net that if I a dose is too high for certain people you'll get fatigue a d some other nasties.
Then I tried the drops (one drop) under tongue yesterday.....20 mins later feeling weird and fatigued more than usual
One drop has 187ug in.
So the American lady on my site said she did warn me, to start at 25ug but I didn't listen. So today is day one of 25ug.
On this forum we advise change one thing at a time as you will never know what is happening. Your anxiety is possibly making you reach for any solution (been there worn the T-shirt).
Your fatigue could be part of your anti depressant withdrawal which should be discussed with your GP not an American website which may have different views. Healthunlocked has sites that could help you with the withdrawal process.
As I’ve said before concentrate on the slow withdrawal from antidepressant before looking at anything else other wise you are just chasing your tail 🤷♀️
are you reducing dose gradually ( if so how gradually ), or have you just stopped cold turkey ?
regarding the american/ vitamin advice you are following ,i've no idea if this is sound advice or not ,,, but like SarahJane1471 i am wondering if you have been given sound advice about how to go about tapering off antidepressants , as you haven't mentioned how fast / slow you are doing it in any of your replies.
Sorry hun.....so I was taking duloxetine got to 60mg all I did waz cry for 10 weeks....buy because I'm perimenopausal a d wear a HRT patch ......I just took a mates advice a d added an AD which really I didn't need, at the time I'd had a dip in oestrogen so all I needed to do was up my patch. Anyway the duloxetine was giving me so much fatigue I wanted off.
So GP said come down 2 week on each dose u till I got to the end of 10mg.
2 days laterafyer stopping wow the withdrawal started!! Crying depression I've never had .....anxiety low mood u name it .....I. battled on fir 3 weeks but couldn't take it so rang GP want to go back on...but they're not trained in withdrawal soo was upping and downing my dose for a good 16 days u till a friend told me to get on Surviving Antidepressants Web. It's American they specialise in withdrawal and tapering.
They advocate fir very low doses in e erything so they told me go on 20mg and stay there.....you will stabilise but it could take months because u went up n down when going back on.
I'm in week 11 and so now I've found I can't take b12 like I used to. I've had reactions to the 1000ug, the dropper, and 25ug.
The lady warned me to get a pill cutter and start very low she was right. But at the moment I'm waiting for this b12 to be out my system as the last lot I took was su day eve in the form of nutritional yeast ....I bloody put 2 table spoons on .....the lady went mad saying you've added over 6 times the recommended dose of only 1 teaspoon! Yikes. The next day I was so ill. Yesterday I felt great, today I've hot bad fatigue and don't know why.
thanks for explaining that better , hopefully the full picture will help others when replying.... it's not something i know much about personally (only that a family member had a nasty time on sertraline for a few months and she stopped cold turkey which goes against all the advice anywhere , but she got away with it without too many problems ~ just lucky i guess)
but do bear in mind that even if you kept absolutely everything the same everyday ..... you can still expect to have one day of feeling great and another of feeling godawful , and it's not necessarily related to taking a dose of vitamin or whatever.... bodies just do that to us when they need us to rest for whatever process they are doing ....they force us to.
I know I'm sat here crying again. Yesterday I felt so good...now I feel so depressed and like there's nothing to live for ...because this keeps coming back
You know I keep a diary ....everything ...like coke , coffee. I kept everything the same as yesterday a d I feel like shit. So upset so down Yesterday I was so happy ....very bubbly. I just can't live this way
Folate is a nutrient the body doesn't store, so low levels are common, and regular supplementation is often required to keep levels up. Ideally people would get folate from their diet, but absorption of nutrients is often poor in people with thyroid disease. For info on folate :
Folic acid should be avoided completely because it requires conversion to methylfolate for it to be useful in the body. It is usually better to take methylfolate directly, because conversion problems are common in thyroid disease.
Natural sources for folate, and supplementation are discussed in this link :
Thanks humanbean I'm low in both....so when wpuld you suggest I start my folate 400ug? I was told in 3 weeks? Alongside my 25ug b12? Thanks in advance x
I just wanted to add that withdrawal from antidepressants is certainly not an easy feast and I think GPs do not appreciate what it really can be like. However, if you taper them very, very slowly, it can be done safely without too much discomfort. There are also differences between different antidepressants and with some of them tapering is much easier, whilst others need to be tapered for a lot longer.
The thing to remember also is, that low levels of certain B vitamins, particularly B12, folate, and B6, have been linked to an increased risk of anxiety, due to their role in neurotransmitter synthesis and nerve function. In particular B12 can help to regulate the synthesis of neurotransmitters, especially serotonin. So it is likely that you feel heightened anxiety at the moment, as your B-vitamins are very low, combined with a reduction in your anxiety meds. So increasing your B-vitamins would be quite important to counterbalance the reduction in serotonin levels due to the reduction in antidepressant medication.
So try to get your B-vitamins increased, and work slowly to reduce your antidepressants, it will probably be a fine balance at the beginning. Sometimes we can overthink things, in particular if you feel very anxious, but that is normal and it will get better. There will be ups and downs along the road so one day you might feel okay, the next day might not be so good. But try to persevere and small steps will add up to a big step eventually - so don't get disheartened. And be patient and kind to yourself, slowly but surely will get you where you need to be.
If you do find it very difficult to increase your B-vitamins and taper at the same time, as a last resort you could stay on a certain dose of your antidepressants for a while longer until your B-vitamins are in a much better place and only then try to taper down slowly again. If your levels of B-vitamins are much higher, you may have higher levels of serotonin, which could help you make the tapering a bit easier? Just a thought though.
You need all your B vitamins higher, so I would continue with your B12 and a good vitamin B complex as well. If you take them with magnesium, this will help with the absorption of the B-vitamins. Once your Vitamin B12 is at the top of the range, you can just carry on with the Vitamin B complex (which contains Vit B12 too). It may take a few weeks to a couple of months for your levels to get high enough though, so be patient and try to be consistent as well.
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