High estrogen low progesterone link to TPO anti... - Thyroid UK
High estrogen low progesterone link to TPO antibody
I entered the menpause and my GP put me on Estrogen. Two weeks later I got Shingles and two weeks later my Thytoid died. I never had a swollen neck before starting Thyroid replacement. I have never felt as well as I did the day before I started Estrogen. Not saying my Thyroid wasnt dying anyway, maybe it was, but I am absolutely sure I was suffering from Estrogen dominance and it is that that killed my Thyroid. I agree with this post x
If TPO confirms Hashimotos and TPO is linked to estrogen dominance i would have thought they would give progesterone? If I'm reading correctly estrogen dominance is Hashis?
If I'm reading correctly estrogen dominance is Hashis?
No, I don't think that's quite right. Because the antibodies are not the disease, if you see what I mean. The high levels of antibodies are there because you have Hashi's. It doesn't say that estrogen dominance causes Hashi's, just that high levels of estrogen increase the antibodies. But, if you have Hashi's, the antibodies would be there anyway. The level of antibodies is not an indication of the severity of Hashi's. Hashi's is Hashi's and the antibodies fluctuate.
I don't think the connection was explained at all well. It was just sort of left up in the air.
"In hypothyroidism, particularly with an autoimmune component, the body isn’t able to detoxify estrogen properly."
So its the toxic levels of estrogen that creates Hashis. Would this be down to chronic constipation?
No, I don't think it's down to constipation. I think hormones are more likely to be peed out.
But, that article is just as vague as the last one. It's all supposition, no proof. Again, she says that high levels of estrogen raise levels of antibodies. But, it's not the raised antibodies that causes Hashi's, it's Hashi's that causes the raised antibodies. She doesn't say so, but it rather looks as if she's working on the assumption that the antibodies do the attacking, so the more antibodies there are, the more attacking goes on. But, that's not the case. The TPO antibodies don't attack anything. The fact that there are raised antibodies and raised estrogen found in Hashi's does not prove cause and effect.
Molecular Mimicry
Molecular mimicry is one of the leading theories of autoimmune disease. In very simple terms, this theory hypothesizes that our immune system begins to attack our own thyroid gland because we are infected with a pathogenic organism (like a bacterium, parasite, or virus), that looks similar to components of the thyroid gland.
The immune system remembers isolated protein sequences on the pathogen (rather than the entire DNA sequence of the pathogen) and then looks for similar looking proteins as targets for an attack. If the proteins on the thyroid match the proteins the immune system remembered, then the thyroid will be targeted for attack as well. Therefore, the immune system attacks the thyroid gland due to a case of mistaken identity, when it is actually trying to attack an infection!
Isnt science based on theory until it can be disproved?
Sure, but that's the theory that's used by those that maintain all Hashi's is caused by leaky gut/gluten.
Personally, I believe there are all sorts of possible causes/triggers - excess iodine is another one. But that theory is a long, long way from what you stated above:
If I'm reading correctly estrogen dominance is Hashis?
How do you know your thyroid died, if you don't mind my asking?
Are you asking me GG? Because I got ill when I started taking Estrogen and got Shingles and didnt recover and they did further tests and had gone Hypothyroid and had to be put on Levo. All withing a few weeks. Since starting Levo my neck is sore. I felt weller the week before I started Estrogen and any of this x
OK, yes, I understand. But, none of that shows that your thyroid 'died'. Going hypo doesn't necessarily mean that your thyroid is dead. It just means that, for whatever reason, it's not working very well. To say your thyroid 'died' is an extreme statement, and somewhat difficult to prove unless you died, too. 
Lol! That was funny x But I believe it has completely died as I am on a high dose and get ill, very fast, without my meds. So I think I would be dead very soon without replacement x
And that was all within a few weeks of starting Estrogen x
Given that thyroid hormone replacement replaces the natural production of your thyroid - it doesn't just top it up - the size of your dose is no indication of the productive capacity of your thyroid. You'd only know that if you stopped taking thyroid hormone for a few weeks. Which I obviously don't recommend.
My thyroid was pronounced dead when I was 61. When I was 68, I did stop all thyroid hormone for six months. My presumed-dead thyroid snapped back into life and produced enough hormone to keep me alive for the whole of that time. My TSH was about 45, and my Frees very low. But, both my thyroid and I were alive! Yay! lol It's very, very hard to know. Doctors make these pronouncements, but they really have no idea.
Thats so interesting! Wow.
I have wondered if I stopped the Estrogen and NDT if my Thyroid would eventually start again but once I started Thyroid replacement my Thyroid area became very sore and swollen and still is, so I think its very damaged now. And like you say theres no way to know and its a massive risk x
It probably would start again, yes. But whether or not it would be able to make enough hormone to keep you well, is another question.
Isnt a thyroid swelling due to too much thyroid hormones?
How did you manage to stay well for six months, did you first improve your overall health, nutrient absorption and stress levels?
Lord no! I was very, very ill at the time. And, it wasn't a conscious deci
sion. It just happened. I don't know how or why.
Did you self isolate when you was ill? sometimes it is easy to recharge and conserve energy when alone.
I was in hospital for a lot of that time. And, I live alone. But, someone came round every day to look after me.
Was your illness thyroid related ? Sorry for being nosey xx
No, not at all. It was an infection that got out of hand.
Glad you recovered.
Thank you. But, I don't think I ever did, completely.
Was the infection left too long?
In one of the articles in mentions the breaking down of estrogen, but also in a different paragraph it mentioned estrogen is required to produce thyroid hormones. My question is in what state does the estrogen need to be in to contribute to the increase of thyroid hormone. I read that estroeg needs to be altered to water soluble in order to irradicate it from our body but does it also need to alter to an water based product to increase thyroid hormone?
I'm afraid I can't answer that. I really don't know. Sorry.
Ok thank you. i will see if i can find any info that i can comprehend.
Hydroxylation via cytochrome p450 which can be induced and inhibited by drug contraindications and also by Dioxygenases enzymes. I think I've got it?
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dioxy...
Doctors are off their heads putting women on estrogen just because they are menopausal. It's actually a dangerous practice especially without testing. Estrogen blocks your thyroid receptors that carry T4 so anyone on estrogen needs a higher dose. I didn't go through menopause till 61 and I refused estrogen. I use natural progesterone only and have never had a hot flush or any menopause symptoms. I also test my hormones every 6 months to a year and make sure I'm never estrogen dominant.
Completely agree. I wish I knew then what I know now. My hormones were never tested. I got ill straight away when starting estrogen and just didnt make the connection because I trusted my doctor. I’m completely untrusting now with our masogynistic NHS x
I was well after taking estrogen in connection to thyroid health for seven months before it became an issue. I do know one thing estrogen made me feel happier than i had for a long time despite the terrible side effects.
I was put on estrogen patches over a year ago, soon after my breasts were sooo tender I stopped. A couple of months ago my Endo tested my estrogen and said it was ‘very’ high and not to take anything which promotes estrogen. So now I’m left wondering why it’s so high, they didn’t mention testing my other hormones (I’m going to ask) and no advice how to lower 🤷♀️
Would T3 impact sex hormones in any way? I’m currently on T4 but have asked the Endo for a trial - which I’ll be speaking to them today about.
As long as you stay off estrogen it will fall eventually. The thing you should be doing is balancing it with real progesterone to get rid of the risks of having too much estrogen. You should never have been on it in the first place, these doctors are very ignorant with anything hormonal. They never check hormone levels and never P:E2 ratio which puts women at risk.
I’ve been off it for over a year when tested high - I discovered I am homozygous for the COMT gene therefore don’t get rid of oestrogen easily. I’m have the Mirena coil fitted so have some progesterone but maybe not enough?
I have discovered I’m a poor converter of T4 to T3 and wondered if that also has any bearing?
I’ll ask Endo to test my other hormones too.
Thanks
Mirena is not real progesterone all it does is takes up your progesterone receptors. It will also have negative effects on your thyroid and adrenal functions.
So would my Dr be able to prescribe real progesterone? Or is this something I will have to test and prescribe myself?
If you live in England utrogestan is on prescription. I live in Scotland so I have to buy my own. I also get tests from medichecks for all hormones
menopausedoctor.co.uk/menop...
Im guessing now that a progestin which is progesterone derived would be an alternative but haven't yet successfully been offered one.
Progestin is fake progesterone like mirena - to be avoided.
Some progestins are progesterone derived, are they just as bad? Have you used them or know stories about progesterone derived progestins as i was contemplating giving them a go if needed.
Progestin is not progesterone. If you look at molecular structure of progestin it looks more like testosterone. Avoid if you can unless you fancy acne and weight gain. Go for bio identical progesterone. And the best way to detox estrogen is to have healthy liver. Healthy liver will pump up any excess hormones, toxins and fat.
menopausedoctor.co.uk/menop...
Isnt that coil testosterone derived also. "Levonorgestrel, also known as 17α-ethynyl-18-methyl-19-nortestosterone or as 17α-ethynyl-18-methylestr-4-en-17β-ol-3-one, is a synthetic estrane steroid and a derivative of testosterone"
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Levon....
Ny daughter was given this as a birth control method, she lost all her feminine feautures and looked awful. xx Not only did she loose all her looks but also lost her confidence too. I wouldnt touch that stuff, transdermal patches contain same stuff and the oral HRT pills too. A lot of the progestins are testosterone derived.
In one of the articles it mentions gut health as a potential factor for increased estrogen in the body. I know my digestive tract isn't working efficiently and if you can not break down the estrogen and alter its structure you can not rid it from your body., maybe this is an issue.
"One way that estrogen dominance impacts on thyroid health is by stopping the conversion of T4 into T3 thyroid hormone which leads to low T3 levels. This means that although there is not a direct issue with the thyroid gland, symptoms of hypothyroidism will be experienced. Too much estrogen can also block the uptake of thyroid hormones, once again leading to symptoms of hypothyroidism."
It’s an interesting article. Thyroid disease is a rollercoaster. I have read lots of articles etc since being diagnosed with Graves in December and there are so many dos and don’t say that I have now started a journal and am writing down all the relevant information I collate. I did read that soya increased your oestrogen levels and that oestrogen dominance had a negative effect on thyroid ( hyper and hypo). Therefore I gave up soya milk ( which I drank a fair bit of) and I genuinely feel better, with no breast tenderness! As for the thyroid, I am still hyper though.
Have you tried an adaptagen like ashwagandha? I gave this too my son who was seriously hyper and he felt and looked a lot better quite quickly. xx He still took his propranolol for the shakiness for a while but he is off those too now. xx
I have read the article because I went through an early horrific menopause and sometime towards the end developed hypothyroidism and was interested in the connection. The article is a bit wishy washy. The writer repeats the same thing several times, and doesn't always have correct sentence structure and misses words out. The article could be half the length and give the same information. Even though it says 'fact checked' I wouldn't be inclined to take this as medically correct. Some of the the sources are dubious and they are all this person's interpretation. I doubt they are medically trained. Having looked at a few other articles on the website they are all just as poor. I'm not saying there isn't some truth in what they are saying- but I tend to rely on actual medical journals and organisations like the British Thyroid Foundation for trusted content.
There are references at the bottom of the article.
Maybe this one reads better? This lady has been through the thyroid journey and also has personal experience.
Thank you, it's a very interesting article. Is it worth taking natural products /diet modification that can detoxify the liver and other products to 'clean' the intestine so as to evacuate this excess oestrogen?
Excess estrogen is cleared by the liver. A high fibre diet helps greatly. Some natural doctors recommend raw carrots.
Im glad you found it interesting .I am going to try to improve my gut health and see if that makes a difference.
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