Black Seed helpful for Thyroid function

[LynneG]

Interesting for anyone who appreciates natural interventions. I just wondered if others had seen this info /study re black seed increasing T3 and T4 and reducing TSH and lots more. Only an 8 week study but described results as significant. I take Black Seed oil / put on salads etc but the study uses powder x

thyroid.org/patient-thyroid...

[greygoose]

So, have you found it to raise your FT4/3 and reduce your TSH?

That article is dated September 2016. Rather a long time ago, in research terms.

[LynneG in reply to greygoose]

Hi Greygoose will reply to your other post reply later, when I have time to consider. Just been out for a walk and want to get out in the sun

I only saw the study yesterday so I havent tried the theory out. Interesting though. I had no idea of any possible effect on thyroid. I do have Black Seed oil in and have occasionally on salads and rub on painful joints/ previous skin rash. I certainly wouldn't buy capsules but use the oil straight from the bottle. I may now try being consistent with use though and then check my blood test results.

I am not hypo (altho do have symptoms) and don't have Hashimotos as far as I know. However I am proactive as regards my health in general , like to learn as have had an autoimmune disease for 24 years. I watched my TSH climb steadily every year and so always asked for the test in my annual blood tests. Have had private T3/ T4 /antibodies etc privately some time ago. The only thing that has possibly affected my TSH is daily use of near infra red light and daily Frankincense Sacra essential oil on my thyroid area. Following using for approx 9-12months my TSH had fallen from 3.8 to 2.8 any anomaly can happen with b tests I know, but I feel this protocol was the cause of the reduction. my TSH had never fallen before in years.

[greygoose in reply to LynneG]

Yes, but why would you want your TSH to fall, anyway? It just reduces your chances of getting diagnosed. It won't improve your health in any way, because TSH has no direct effect on your health. And, there's absolutely no point in reducing it if you don't raise your FT4/3 at the same time.

[LynneG in reply to greygoose]

Hi Greygoose, Well I just presume if my TSH is falling then my brain is detecting more T3/T4 and therefore not needing to send out as much of the stimulating hormone to nudge the thyroid in to action. Obviously I don't know that as didnt have my T3 and T4 blood levels taken at the same time (you know the NHS) but seems a positive take on it. My mindset is that the less TSH detectable in my blood the better my Thyroid is working. Just as I thought that I may be starting with thyroid issues when I saw that my TSH was climbing year on year. TSH is just the messaging system of this functional pathway , isn't it ? I don't understand your question, is that not what you understand? I am not trying to reduce my TSH as such. I am trying to get my thyroid to work more efficiently. My TSH falling indicated to me that I may be achieving this. I don't really want to be diagnosed as having a faulty, or damaged thyroid, I just want to improve my thyroid function x

[SilverAvocado in reply to LynneG]

LynneG, both 2.8 and 3.8 are raised TSHs that indicate you don't have a healthy thyroid.

You're unfortunately in a catch-22 situation. A doctor won't diagnose and prescribe for you until your TSH gets much higher, 4-10 or even higher. But if you improve your general health and take care of your thyroid you can probably get some improvement in your thyroid results and improve your symptoms, which is obviously a good thing. But then on the other hand it puts off getting proper treatment.

The most likely thing, probably a 90% or higher chance is that you have Hashimoto's. This is a progressive illness that slowly damages your thyroid function over time.

[LynneG in reply to SilverAvocado]

Yep, thanks. I realise 2.8 is still raised and needs to be 1or even .5 which is why I try to improve my health and improve my thyroid function and to be fairis why I was pleased that it seems as tho my thyroid function had improved as TSH had fallen for the 1st time in probably 8 years. It does seem like a big improvement to me 3.8 to 2.8 I just need another couple of years and could be down to 0.8 I have had private antibody test and antibodies are well within range !! And you can imagine what I think to normal ranges - it doesn't mean healthy it just means most folks are sick. I just try my best to learn and be proactive. x

[SilverAvocado in reply to LynneG]

A healthy person would have a TSH between about 0.8 and 2. It's only once a person is already sick and takes thyroid hormone replacement that they will probably feel best with a suppressed TSH.

I'm not sure there is any research or knowledge about what the ideal TSH for a person in your situation would be. I think we can be pretty confident your own thyroid won't produce enough hormone to take your TSH down below the level a person with a healthy thyroid would have. But I'm also not sure that if you managed to get your own TSH back down below 2 that would reduce your symptoms to what a healthy person could expect.

Reading this much into TSH is kind of pointless anyway, because TSH doesn't tell us very much. You'd be much better off getting a full thyoid panel and monitoring changes in your freeT3. If you have Hashimoto's you will eventually be more ill than you are now. If there's some other explanation such as a pituitary problem (those with central hypo are often capable of having a slightly raised TSH, just not consistently high enough for them) then you may be stable where you are.

[LynneG in reply to SilverAvocado]

Hi, I respect your knowledge. I have no idea whether my symptoms are due to thyroid function, B12, autoimmune etc. But thyroid could be a component because function is involved in all pathways, thyroid receptors on most every cell, and climbing TSH is not healthy. Brilliant then that you percieve that a normal healthy thyroid should perhaps prompt a TSH of 2. Not got that far then to improve my thyroid function with natural interventions to get there I only quoted 0-5 or 1 as indicating a healthy functioning thyroid because Clinician Chris Kresser has quoted those figures

Thanks for your info re pituitary. i feel I need to re test when allowed under NHS to evaluate and have private test of all other markers. (do you feel Reverse T3 is adviseable) I will probably wait till March when NHS testing due and in the meantime try all support for thyroid that I know of to see if I can effect function or whether my fall of TSH was just an anomally. My grandson was born 2017 and my daughter inlaw developed Hashimotos following his birth but I often feel that maybe in such cases there may have been a thyriod function issue before pregnancy and , pregnancy is the last straw. What do you think? I am sure now with hindsight that following my 2 pregnancies, I had thyroid issues as certainly had symptoms but I had no knowledge back then. I went to the GP and she just said that what was I worrying about, she had to wear a wig after the birth of her child. I went to the chemist for chilblain cream in the height of summer. He told me too late now , your problem started months and months before symptoms and rather looking for chilblain cream, you should be asking why you have chilblains in the first place. I had no idea what he was talking about back then. Only a couple of years later I started with autoimmune (RA) maybe my genetic weak link following nutritional deficiencies etc. That's how I have come to see it.

[asidist]

hi lynne, not much time to respond at the moment but thanks for sharing. had looked into it last year or 2017 and if i remember correctly i thought i read it raises t4 but not t3, though i’d have to do some digging to find that research again. had read lots of other amazing things about it as well and my mom uses it which is why i looked into it. i’ve tried it and unfortunately have to report i had a hard time with it. it caused my eyes and face to droop, which for me is a hashi symptom. i think it can induce herxheimer reactions (i don’t know how legitimate that phenomenon is though i’ve heard respected experts refer to it), and i’ve wondered if the droop comes from that vs further reducing my poor t4/t3 ratio. i’ve read you have to increase your intake of it very slowly to avoid herx reactions and even then, some report having a reaction to each increase. in any case i think it is powerful stuff and hope more research is done with it. personally i largely have stopped taking it unless i’m fighting some sort of infection and even then in only small amounts. interested to hear others’ experiences if anyone else has tried it

oh and ive used the seeds whole, boiled for tea or sometimes just mixed with honey and swallowed. never tried powder or oil.

update: did a quick search on google and cannot find what i read earlier - mostly just coming across LOTS of references to this same study now. but does make me think more likely what i experienced was indeed a herx reaction, as i have been diagnosed w SIBO (tho not sure accurate) and as a current nasal staph carrier. may give it another shot at some point

[LynneG in reply to asidist]

Thanks asidist, It is always so difficult to know if we have a reaction. Maybe the brand of oil I use is weaker? as others say the taste is awful and I don't find that at all. The brand I use is 'Organic The Best' I buy from Grape Tree stores £4.99 last time I bought. Lasts quite a long time doesn't it, especially if not consistent - ha So I presume your mum is seeing some benefit ?

Just a point, have you ever read 'The cure is in the cupboard' about oregano oil uses (last I knew Olive Leaf website sold in their book section £5) I wouldn't be without oregano oil (naturesupplies .co.uk £9.99) even comes on holiday with me. any infection, midge bite etc , I feel confident to apply and kill any infection that may be passed by the insect. Is antibacterial , anti viral, antifungal and anti inflammatory. I have seen it work too many times to not believe it. for instance my husband pricked his finger in the garden, it immediately swelled up like a huge sausage, was red and throbbing and v v painful. He'd done the same thing 3-4 yrs before and ended up in A&E. I just thought oh no, all Sunday afternoon in A&E again and then remembered my oregano oil. Applied one drop and no kidding within seconds the pain stopped and throbbing, within 5 mins no redness or swelling, nothing. Unbelievable. Inhale via steam or direct from the bottle, cured my sons elderly next door neighbour of a severe chest infecton within a week , following hospital consultants trying to eradicate unsuccessfully for 12 months. It's worth trying on your nasal infection. Often nasal drip/infection also involves fungal infection too. x

[asidist in reply to LynneG]

Hi Lynne G, sorry for the delayed reply - life has been a little crazy and I haven't had a chance to get on here much the past several weeks. I think you're right that there's a difference between the potency of the oil and whole seeds. I actually don't know if my mom has seen any benefit from black seeds - she's not very consistent herself and mixes herbs, so it would be very difficult to tell, but I can say she enjoys using them!

Thanks so much for the suggestion and stories about oregano oil! I've heard about it and actually have been meaning to look into more. I've come across some complaints that oregano oil makes people irritable/anxious/depressed when taken internally for a period of time - have you ever ingested it or noticed any mood or cognitive issues when inhaling?

[LynneG in reply to asidist]

Hi asidist, no, I haven't heard anything like that about oregano oil . In many years I have only probably taken oregano oil internally in a drop of juice perhaps on 2 or 3 occasions if really ill with flu.

I always just rub on my chest before bed if have come down with something, rub on my throat. And inhale from the bottle, as many times a day as I remember - usually timing with going to the bathroom, so I don't forget. I put a drop on my finger and rub around gums before and after a dental check up.

Which reminds me, I sometimes clench my teeth unbeknown to me, when asleep and I awoke in the middle of the night with severe toothache and lay there for 2 hrs unable to get back to sleep until I remembered Oregano oil. I put a drop on my finger and rubbed on the tooth/gum. Instantly the pain went and didn't return. I had obviously upset the nerve with clenching.

If I go anywhere germy if I remember to, I breathe in from the bottle. My friend who I mentioned oregano oil to, always takes to work where the office is always buzzing with one virus or another and breathes in from the bottle often if one is going around.

Neither she or I have noticed anything, other than getting or not getting We use Wild Oregano (naturesupplies) If not wild or organic then herbicides/pesticides could cause negative effects as with anything. I was cold and flu free for 10years even though my husband and close family and friends developed flu/cold/ sore throats. Last year was the first time I succumbed to one.

I wouldn't take oregano oil internally for any length of time anyway, just incase of a negative effect on the gut microbiome (altho saying that, I haven't had to, would prefer anyday than taking medication, antibiotics etc)

I think breathing in to your lungs would hopefully kill any fungal infection there as with harbouring any in your mucosal tissue in your nose and would also have an anti inflammatory effect x

[asidist in reply to LynneG]

That’s great that it’s been so useful to you and people you know. Thanks for sharing your experiences and the ways you’ve used it. I will definitely be looking into it it more and may get it myself to use as an adjunct.

I’ve recently started to have more and more nasal/sinus issues, I can only assume from having picked up staph (about a third of the population carries staph in their nasal passages regularly and another third intermittently, so i imagine not hard to get if one’s system is compromised), and ive just started the kimchi route to see if that can resolve it. It probably would have been a good idea to use something like oregano oil as an inhalant for a few days first, but hopefully will work nonetheless. Fascinating (as is all of the new research about the many ways our microbiome affects us and the possibilities for transplanting healthier bacteria): lactobacto.com/sinusitis-tr...

[LynneG in reply to asidist]

Thanks asidist, Great informative link . I have filed so will have the info. A good probiotic I like if you wish to ring the changes as the article said is Microbz incase you haven't come across. microbz.co.uk - Liquid, Bio Live Dark. Contains the strains in the 'final note' in the article and many more x

[asidist in reply to LynneG]

thanks LynneG i’ll take a look!

[Nico101]

Oddly enough, I had an email this morning from Isabella Wentze (I'm subscribed to her blog), and the article was about this very same thing.

I took this a couple of years ago for Crohn's. Can't say if it worked or not, as I was taking and doing other things (the SCD for one, as well as cannabis oil - the real stuff not CBD oil). Looking back, I had had thyroid symptoms since about 2014 that came and went but since I hadn't been diagnosed, I assumed it was all adrenal/Crohn's related.

It certainly didn't do me any harm and the article today jogged my memory and made me think of having another go now I know what I'm dealing with. That said, I'm going to wait a while to give it a fair shot, as I'm taking Myo-inisitol, started LDN 3-4 weeks ago, and 10 days ago embarked on a gut-repair protocol I first saw on here when the free seminars were going live (The Gut Solution).

If I restarted it now, I wouldn't know what was working and what wasn't. I can tell you it's totally safe and I had no side-effects. Mine came in oil form.

[LynneG in reply to Nico101]

Thanks Nico, Interesting that you have just started taking LDN. I would love to know how you get on with it please. I have that in my tool kit go to, as in if low or get really bad ,there is always LDN that I can go to. The one thing I worry about is; I always wake in the night, usually get back to sleep but on occasions don't . So I was worrying about how LDN would affect me. It works doesn't it by depriving of endorphins during sleep/night and then brain recognises and boosts supply in the morning. Most of us with autoimmune have been found to be desperately low in endorphins. Is that how you see it works? Do you get advice from a prescribing doctor/chemist x

[Nico101 in reply to LynneG]

I had to have a consult before taking it - even though I've taken it twice before. I can't recall how it's supposed to work, but at first you do get very vivid and weird dreams. Sometimes I'm not sure if I'm awake or asleep, but then I see hours have gone by so I was obviously asleep. Very weird.

Anyway, I find it helps with sleep. But you can take it during the day, too.

The worst thing is the taste. I'm using sublingual drops to avoid sugar (I had the syrup when I took it before) and it is vile.

If you want to try it go to Dickson's chemist, Glasgow. They stock it in all it's forms and arrange a consult with a GP.

[LynneG in reply to Nico101]

Thanks for your info and the tip not to have the syrup, I would want to avoid that as sugar free as far as possible. I do have the probiotics fermented on organic brown sugar in the winter ocasionally but otherwise am sugar free - ha, red wine occasionally. Honey and some starchy veg/bananas but hopefully the fibre prevents sugar spikes I think good local honey on the honey comb is OK such conflicting info - but use sometimes as positive about. Yes I have heard of the Glasgow chemist. So the chemist arrange a consult with a GP presumeably reasonably local or online/phone ? x

[Nico101 in reply to LynneG]

I have a sweet tooth and I recall the syrup being REALLY sweet - even for me. Although the drops are vile, just have a bit of fruit ready to take once you swallow. You can't actually taste it when it's under the tongue, but once you think enough has been absorbed and you swallow, what's left hits your tongue and yuk!

If you phone Dickson's they will arrange for a form to be sent out to be completed in-depth and you will need to send proof of whatever illness you plan to take it for - I sent my thyroid blood tests. They arrange a telephone consultant with a GP, you have that, you agree the type of LDN you want, and then you pay and get your LDN sent within a couple of days. You start at 3 drops and build up until you reach 9 drops or reach a smaller dose that makes you feel better.

With honey, raw is best. If it's been pasteurised - and most have - then it's basically syrup. The one I used is Hilltop - they have a wonderful selection; I love the acacia blossom. But if you can source local raw honey, even better.

[LynneG in reply to Nico101]

Thank you Nico. Sorry to ask more questions. When you say different types do you mean the patient and doctor decide whether you want syrup or drops? So you have fruit ready for when you swallow and then have a spoonful of honey?

You have been taking LDN for 3-4 weeks, apart from the vivid dreams, have you noticed any benefits in how you feel or are you still increasing the no of drops?

Thank you for all your help

[Nico101 in reply to LynneG]

Yes, you discuss which type you want. Before now i just ended up with the syrup, so be sure to say you want the sublingual drops without any sugar in them.

Can't say if I'm having any benefits yet, as I'm still working to increase the dose. I have more energy, but not sure if that's the LDN or increasing my thyroid meds.

They do say give it 3 months to kick in.

[LynneG in reply to Nico101]

Thanks so much Nico xx

[janeroar]

This is Isabella Wentz’s piece on Black seed oil benefits. She’s a big fan of it. I have used it occasionally so can’t report any definite findings except find it tastes foul ! Can’t imagine how anyone can use it in a salad dressing. I bolt it down (in oil form) The Blessed Seed company is supposed to be the best and has got rave reviews on Amazon. Would be interesting to see what benefits would be if I used it consistently and would be good to here from others who have.

thyroidpharmacist.com/artic...

[LynneG in reply to janeroar]

Thanks , interesting , expands,more info than the study I read. I first started having in, as I read about it on website green med info. not for thyroid though just health in general. Strange about taste, could be the brand. I just find has a slight peppery taste. I love to add to home made veg soup when ready to eat. I like to dip my almond flour breadcakes into olive oil sometimes and have on occasions dipped into blackseed oil instead. Brand I have is 'Organic The Best' 100ml glass bottle. My TSH fell (no meds) hadn't fallen for years just steadily rising, began being proactive with near infra red light daily at home (redlightman.co.uk) and Frankincense essentil oil in coconut oil rubbed on to neck daily. Fell from 3.8 to 2.8 . Will look into the brand you mentioned as possibly not as strong re taste. But may stick with this as organic and just have more. Cheap too. Blurb on packaging states purest and finest black seed oil you will come across. Cold Pressed, Non GM. From controlled organic farming.

[LynneG]

Thanks Janey , I dip my breadcake in olive oil (like the Italians do) because I have learned consuming cold olive oil is beneficial for health (organic cold pressed of course) and that takes my breath away and often makes me cough, the taste is so strong. To me Black Seed oil is nothing compared. Must be the strength or brand.(Organic The Best Brand) I wonder what the reason could be re long term? I have heard/read that can be effective against parasites that we don't know we have. Maybe it is something to do with killing micro organisms, unbalancing microbiome effect. Will look intox

[SilverAvocado]

Oops, thought I'd already posted this. You made a post on the same topic two years ago. healthunlocked.com/thyroidu...

[LynneG in reply to SilverAvocado]

Hi Silver Avocado, unbelieveable, thank you for posting the link. That shows me that I really need something for memory. (B12 /autoimmune issues) I have autoimmune RA and so had thought I took the oil to tackle inflammation levels. I had totally forgotten the thyroid connection/possible benefit. Although I know a healthy thyroid is imperative for health and aim to reverse what I see as a trend towards my thyroid becoming disfunctional (climbing TSH in addition connection with other autoimmune conditions)

I have not been diagnosed with a thyroid condition and so it does not always have the highest prominence in my awareness

At the time of my previous post 2 years ago my focus was to do everything for lottie my dog ( who was diagnosed with bone cancer with only 3 months to live) including the use of Black seed/oil, which is the reason I became aware of the studies. Remarkably Lottie is still with us 2 years later, although not well, still enjoys life.

Now my daughter in law following giving birth was diagnosed with Hyper then Hypo /with massive antibody levels - so Hashimotos and is prescribed Levo. As she is so desperate to help herself I have sought to find info/studies providing practical support. Hence posting this study (yet again LOL) Sorry for that, but interesting to read the replies and thoughts from 2years ago and take on board that seeds are possibly more effective than oil and the link for organic seeds . Also this recent post has reached different people

[Nico101]

Had a good read through all the info and medical tests and ordered some Viridian black seed powder capsules. I want to see how I get on with this before having to buy a coffee grinder and make fresh powder. All the evidence now seems to suggest powdered whole seeds are better than the oil, so fingers crossed it helps.

[LynneG in reply to Nico101]

Thats interesting - thanks for that. Do you have a nutribullet? I use that with the 2 blade fitment for grinding flax seeds. I obviously make smoothies too which is why I bought the nutribullet. Just thought may be more useful than a plain coffee grinder. Do people stir the powder into a drink, do you think? x

[Nico101 in reply to LynneG]

No nutribullet - although I do have a nut grinding attachment for my old blender, but not sure if it would make it fine enough. When I grind nuts it comes out more of a mealy texture. Anyway, I got round that for now with the capsules.

People seem to do all sorts with the stuff - put it on food, make tea, etc. If you look it up on Amazon and go through the comments you'll get a better idea of how people use it.

[Assiya]

Yes Indeed Prophet Muhammad Allah's peace and blessings be upon him, has said its a cure tor everything except death. Its good for immunesystem etc. I used to drink raw honey with boiled, bit cooled down water with ceylon cinnamon and a wuarte of a teaspoon oil. Of some steeds with honey, grind the seeds freshly is good as well for tea.

Olive leaves very well top, moringa,lost of vit maca , camu camu vit c

We are also adviced to use olive oil, take in and apply on yr body.

turntoislam.com/community/t...

ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articl...

archive.islamonline.net/?p=...

archive.islamonline.net/?p=...