I have Hashi’s. Mum and Nan underactive sister, Graves. I’ve never been well on Levo. Well enough to function some years but not well at all in the last year. I finally took matters into my own hands. Got a DIO2 test. Positive for Heterozygous so I got myself some t3 and have been extremely well for the last 4wks on combination treatment.
So all this got me thinking about my genetic history and how my parents are. My Dad was diagnosed with Alzheimer’s 10yrs ago but has been very well and not going down hill as much as we’d expect. So I’ve got my parents to do a Medichecks thyriod and vitamin test. Here are my Dads results, he’s 76yrs
TSH 2.48 (0.27-4.2)
FT4 13.22 (12-22)
FT3 4.24 (3.1-6.8)
CRP 0.33 (0-5)
Folate 4.49 (3.89-19.45)
Ferritin 29.2 (30-400)
B12 69.2 (37.5-188)
Vit D 57.9 (5-17.5)
I’ve just ordered all the vitamins to be delivered to them. My mum is going to send me a list of his Alzheimer’s tablets so hopefully anyone with knowledge can tell me if he can take his vitamins along with these.
I’ve said to wait 8wks and then retest to see if his thyroid function improves. If not my mum is willing to try a small amount of T3/4 self sourced to see if it can help with his Alzheimer’s.
What do you guys think? Gave I advices correctly? Anyone have any reservations?
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I think at the very least his Ferritin level has to be discussed with his GP. It is below range, low Ferritin can suggest iron deficiency anaemia so he needs a full blood count and iron panel.
Also, Active B12 below 70 suggests that testing for B12 deficiency should be carried out. See Viapath at St Thomas' Hospital article here
Yes sorry forgot about antibodies as they were negligent.
I’m not sure how much sway I have here with my mum. She’s in Ireland I’m in England. Tonight’s escapades to try and get her to log in and also give me the password to look at the results together was a bit of a nightmare 😬
Do you think a GP is going to listen to them? I can’t go with and fight their corner. What other tests are we looking at? They’ll have to be done privately I think. I mean I’ll try to get my mum to take him to GP but 😬🤷♀️
I was thinking as a whole. Ferritin and B12. Sorry I’m not being clear. I’m trying to read up. MMA is pretty serious, I think it would have shown up in childhood and/or much earlier than now? Ferritin must have been ok most of his life if he was donating up until 67ish? I think actually he did have to stop because of iron levels. Anyone I digress. Low ferritin is linked to Hypothyriod. But which comes first? I don’t think his thyroid function looks optimal. It could do with a boost. He’s a fit and healthy soldier. We’d be hard pressed to get him to admit to any ailments 😬 He’s just loosing his mind 😢
If MMA and homocysteine levels are increased and B12 concentrations are mildly decreased, then an early or mild B12 deficiency may be present. This may indicate a decrease in available B12 at the tissue level. (If only homocysteine levels are elevated, then folate concentrations should be checked). If MMA and homocysteine levels are normal, it is unlikely that there is a B12 deficiency.
Since the test for MMA is usually requested to detect elevated levels in suspected cases of B12 deficiency, decreased levels of MMA are not clinically significant.
Blood MMA levels also can be increased with kidney disease, which results in decreased MMA excretion in the urine, so MMA accumulates in the blood.
Moderately to severely elevated levels of MMA may be seen in infants with the rare inherited disease methylmalonic acidaemia. "
This article lists symptoms of low ferritin and says
"Low ferritin = Decreased thyroid function
One of the biggest reasons to replace your ferritin levels is because of its impact on thyroid function.
It has been shown in many studies that low levels of iron impair proper thyroid function (3).
And this makes sense, especially considering that many of the symptoms of low ferritin mimic the symptoms of hypothyroidism: decreased energy, hair loss, etc.
The good news is that replacing low iron levels should improve your thyroid function (assuming you had normal thyroid function, to begin with). "
His thyroid levels aren't optimal, as I said his FT4 is low, and his TSH is slightly higher than one might expect to see in a normal healthy person, i.e. usually no more than 2.
Strangely yesterday en route to a dental appointment I was thinking about something I'd read about dementia patients being low in T3 but never any mention of them being treated but it lead me to thinking that as we get older we need to keep checking all our levels and not accept just TSH. May be as well such testing, or at least info about it, should be encouraged as individuals get older. Probably most of us were diagnosed at a younger age but I do wonder how many are told that of course you feel tired, not as young as you were, when a thyroid issue could be the problem.
Yes, I’d read a link a couple of months ago when I went down the rabbit hole of google in search of links/studies on my own low T3 levels. I got all excited when I found it. May be too late for my Dad or not the right thing but if it helps.
It is worth checking out the "End of Alzheimer's" by Dale Bredesen if you haven't already. Loads of good reviews on Amazon. It is amazing how similar the advice is to those of us with thyroid issues - sorting out diet, vitamins, hormones, toxins etc. The book includes examples of patients who have reversed their decline by following the programme.
@jasp6 I’ve just read Summary book of Dale Bredesens book. It’s a quick read which is what I needed. It really does just back up what has been said in my response and the replies here. It’s going to be a good book for my mum to gain confidence in how to help my Dad.
His low vitamin/minerals and low thyriod function are not great for his condition. We’ll address those first before we move on to other things that the book states.
In terms of the thyroid results, I'd say they all look on the sluggish side. For both the free hormones, the range is a normal curve, so most healthy people will be in the centre, and the farther out from that you go the less likely the thyroid is healthy. The freeT3 is about a quarter of the way up the range, and freeT4 even lower.
For TSH, a healthy person will have it around. 0.8-1.8, and again its about probabilities as you get outside it. My personal cut off for being pretty sure something's wrong is 2.5, and your father is hovering just below that.
However, these vitamins are looking very bad, and as we know these vitsmins are necessary for everything thyroid to work properly. Its very possible that if you work on the vitamins and his levels improve his thyroid will get a boost, too. I'd definitely look into those first, and retest everything in 6 months or so, including the thyroid.
My personal view, if he was my father I would probably consider trying a bit of T3 if the thyroid numbers still look bad once vitamins are improved. Although it would definitely be a bit of a rogue thing to try, as these numbers would not conventionally be diagnosed.
The problem with being far away does make it a bit more difficult. Are you able to stay down there for a month or so to start him off? The danger is that he might feel much worse on the T3, might have one of those cortisol type reactions people sometimes do sometimes have starting on T3. He also needs to take it every day once he starts, away from food and other meds, and once you're self medicating you want at least a few days of temperature and pulse taking with each dose adjustment.
I've helped a couple of people self medicate in the past, who don't want to do the research and monitoring themselves, and it hasn't gone too well. It's a lot of work and responsibility once it gets down to the 2nd and 3rd dose adjustment. I've got one friend on a dose we both know is wrong, but who doesn't want to go through testing, adjustment, and test again.
Thank SilverAvocado. Great response. Yes I think all the results are well below par. He may be 77 but he has the body of a 40yr old! He’s amazing.
I have 4 teenagers to look after so it’s a not possible for me to fly over to try and get him established. Luckily though my Mum is very keen. She’s just phoned me to say that she’s been reading up about everything we talked about last night and one thing that stands out is that just around the time he was diagnosed with Alzheimer’s he’d gone to give blood as usual but they had said his iron was very low and he should go see the doc. Well the doc agreed that it was so low that he must have an internal bleed. They looked everywhere and found no bleed but they did find H.Pylori was out of control so they gave him strong antibiotics. They’ve never checked his iron levels since! I think that is scandalous if true!!
I think everyone just been looking at this all wrong! Even the consultant he sees for Alzheimer’s said he’s not deteriorating as expected. He’s still independent. My mum goes to work everyday (they do live in a granny flat on the side of my Sisters house and BIL works from home, but doesn’t interfere in his day), he walks the dog for the paper every morning. He still works the phone and remote ect.
He just can’t always remember what happened 5mins ago or says everyone’s name before he says yours. If you’re not family you’d never know he has a memory problem.
Having such low levels of everything must have a huge impact on his memory. My mum will go to the GP on her own and discuss it all with him. I don’t know if they find a reason for a healthy man with a good diet (although he’s never hungry and sleeps a lot), never smoked. Hasn’t drunk for 11yrs. (Not an alcoholic before) My Dad is not an ‘old man’
Well this is intriguing! I was going to start to be more activity with my day now that I’m well But between My Dads Health and my daughters I’ve got a lot of studying to do! Lol My mum hasn’t even taken her blood test yet. She’s doing it on Monday! Lol
Hopefully improving the vitamins will give him even more of a boost in activity and he'll be running rings round you all! To be more serious, there are probably symptoms from these low vitamins, so he will definitely get an improvement somewhere when they're improved, and hopefully it will turn out to be the whole story with the memory problems.
After I replied to you I did feel a bit uncertain about something... I was saying the numbers looked sluggish but probably not conclusive of thyroid issues. Then I went off and looked at a lot more blood tests on the forum... It made me think, if he had those exact same freeT4 and freeT3 results but a high TSH I think I'd be saying it was a clear cut thyroid issue!
I'm not quite sure what my personal cut off for freeT4 and freeT3 are to be sure there's an issue, as often in a diagnostic situation you kind of can rely on TSH.
I'm not quite sure, I'd have to look at other people's results and bear this in mind, but those frees are pretty low, so maybe it's a bit more than just sluggish, and not that rogue-ish to treat him if you want to!
I hope you take some time to do a nice thing for yourself occasionally as well as chasing after everyone's health!
Aww Thanks SilverAvocado. I lead a charmed life with a fabulous partner of 25yrs and these lovely teens, they all look after me very well 🤗
I think if we can improve on those vitamins then the thyroid will function better. If he doesn’t have a conversion problem (which is as it looks) then I think I’d try to source some t4 as this will be easier for my mum to control. I’m quite excited to see what’s in the future. My mum and I are very strong women and know that it will certainly help but may not be ‘the answer’ but at least we will have known we tried.
My mum and I can have a very strained relationship so this is a good bonding experience. (Otherwise we haven’t spoken for over 6mths 😬)
It's good your mum is onboard I agree the conversion doesn't look to be a problem, and it would be simpler to use T4. Although I'm not sure anyone enormously fails to convert their own made hormone.
It's usual to see a result like this, where the conversion is exceptionally good. This is because the body is able to ramp up to super efficient conversion into T3 to try and maintain levels. When people describe symptoms in the forum it seems that this preserved T3 level doesn't actually keep us feeling well, though.
HughH, there seems to be a mistake somewhere in your calculations. I'm not so good at doing maths in my head, either. This is what I cane up with:
For freeT4 you've come up with 32% up the range, but it's a range of 10 units (22 minus 12), and the result is only 1.22 inside that range (13.22 minus 12).
I'd say this is 12% up the range.
The freeT3 is a bit harder because the range isn't a nice round 10. I always estimate this on my fingers. The range is just under 4 units, and the result is just over 1 unit up the range, so it's just over a quarter up the range.
I tried to explain it as well as I could! See if you can follow both sentence from the paragraph above when looking at his result:
FT4 13.22 (12-22)
"1) It's a range of 10 units (22 minus 12)
2) The result is only 1.22 inside that range (13.22 minus 12).
3) I'd say this is 12% up the range"
The percentage up the range is taking the range, seeing how big it is, and then seeing how far up that range the actual test result comes.
It's like taking a pint measuring jug, pouring a glass of milk into it, and then looking at the markings up the side to work out how much of the pint is filled up.
You did explain it very well but I’m quite illiterate when it comes to maths! Lol I worked it out that 22 = 100% and 12 = 0% then 13 would be 10% (22-12=10 so each number is add 10) Then each .1 would = 1
😂😂 Oh it’s too much, I adore books but maths is a real struggle! I need visuals!!
Sorry SilverAvocado, I worked these out in a hurry and must have used a wrong figure.
Paula6
The free T3 result is however correct. Since T3 is the active thyroid hormone which controls the metabolism and therefore the symptoms it is unlikely that he is hypothyroid. If he was then 30% of the population with Free T3 lower than him would all be.
T4 is a storage hormone and needs converted to T3 to become active. Low Free T4 therefore does not cause symptoms.
Some people do however need higher levels of thyroid hormones to feel well and your father may benefit from medication. A good indicator of this is if his basal temperature is low or if he has a low heart rate or blood pressure.
His folate, ferritin, and B12 are low. Is that really the D range (odd since it's such a narrow range)? Is he supplementing with D? If so he should reduce that. Aim for 11.6 on folate, 307 on ferritin, at least 150 for the B12.) His thyroid numbers could be better. It is not uncommon for elderly to experience decreased thyroid function not related to autoimmune disease. It's just the body starting to decline. My grandfather (grandmother had thyroid disease) and both my parents needed thyroid medication as they got older.
To figure ranges easily, most feel best with TSH closer to 1. Use 3 as the upper limit.
Free T4 should be midrange (so 22-12=10. Take 1/2 of that-5 and add to the lowest range 12. So 17 would be optimal.
Free T3 is a little more work but keep in mind you want to be in the upper quarter range. 6.8-3.1(3.7) and divide by 4 (.93). 3.1+.93+.93+.93 so 5.89 would be an optimal Free T3.
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I agree the conversion doesn't look to be a problem, and it would be simpler to use T4. Although I'm not sure anyone enormously fails to convert their own made hormone.
Test Results Advice Please
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First Post - Latest blood results & seeking input on meds change
