On 120mcgs of NDT, I suffered with adrenaline rushes and anxiety from the T3. (I know this because I was on T3 only and this occurred. So I decided to try first splitting the dose 60mcgs and added 50mgs of Levo. I became over-medicated (Or was reacting to the small amount of T3?) and in 2 weeks and stopped the Levo but kept on with the 60mcgs of NDT. I feel anxious, tired, my nails are splitting again and brain fog. I just am yoyo-ing between too much and too little all the time. I had my thyroid removed 2 1/2 years ago and have had a handful of good days since. Here's my new results after 2-3 weeks on 60mcgs NDT only.
TSH: 2.7 (.03-4.0)
T4: 8.4 (9.0-19.0)
T3: 3.9 (2.6-6.0)
Thanks in advance.
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Sally56
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Thanks for replying. Yes I am undermedicated but I reduced myself down from 120mcgs because of these awful adrenaline rushes. T3 only, caused these and now NDT is the same. I have low cortisol in the mornings and have tried rectifying it by using Holy Basil, Adrenal cocktails and a no sugar diet. Any ideas would be welcome, I am at the end of my tether now.
The adrenals need lots of B vits and vit C. Have you had your B12 and folate tested? You should do that before taking supplements.
They also need a high protein breakfast as soon as you get up. Try always going to bed and getting up at the same time, to avoid stress on your adrenals.
No I haven't had my B12 and folate tested recently and I stopped supplementing B12 and folate about 8 weeks ago. I will get it checked. I don't take any other Vit B's. I do take Vit C. I always have eggs for breaky and maybe some salmon.
No point in testing your B12 after only 8 weeks. You need to wait 5 months to get an accurate reading. What were they when you did last get them tested? Were they very low?
Well, that's splitting hairs a bit, isn't it! lol What is your definition of 'technically low'? It doesn't have to be below range to be low, but anything under 550 could lead to neurological damage. The thing that's important, though, is was it so low that it suggested Pernicious Anemia? In which case you should have been tested for PA. That's why I asked.
Technically low, meaning within Government therapeutic guidelines, but I think (sorry fogged) I was advised on here that it needs to be higher. Should I just supplement again?
OK, so that is a bit low. I had lots of symptoms when my B12 was 350, so it would be a good idea to supplement that. Rather a strange way of expressing the range, though. There's usually an upper limit. However, your active B12 doesn't look so low… Were they done at the same time.
Do you think you have any symptoms of low B12? If so, start supplementing again. If not, why not wait the five months and get it tested again?
Gosh, I just looked up the symptoms of B12 deficiency and I have most of them. I shall order some. You mentioned B vitamins, would a general B tablet be okay or is it specific vitamins? I will also order ZInc and selenium. I have never supplemented them and have read on the forum that they are important. Especially for a non converter.
With your level you give above, I would take 1000 mcg sublingual methylcobalamin daily PLUS a daily B complex. You haven't given a folate result, but it would be best to go for a B complex with methylfolate, rather than folic acid. Doubtful you'd get one like that in the High Street, but you can on Amazon. Igennus do a good one. And Jarrows for the methylcobalamin.
Personally I notice an improvement in how I feel if I have bacon and egg or some other food with decent amounts of protein. Having cereal and/or toast never did much for me. If I skip breakfast I can never make up for it later in the day.
If B vitamins and lots of vitamin C and an adrenal cocktail and breakfast doesn't help then you could try a low dose adrenal supplement to raise your cortisol first thing in the morning. But I am not personally familiar with adrenal supplements, so you would have to ask for advice from people who've taken them.
Have you heard of Paul Robinson? He has written books on the thyroid and advocates using T3 at certain times of the day to raise cortisol, what he calls his "Circadian T3 method".
Thanks for your reply again. I do have Paul's Book from when I did the T3 only trial., and I have just flicked through it again. I tried the CTM3 method and couldn't handle the adrenaline rushes. I already do take my first dose of NDT 2-3 hours before I get up. BUT, I am going to try again, this time, I am going to do my saliva test to get an accurate picture of my adrenals now and then I am going to split the dose into 4, not 2. I will try again. This has to work. I believe I am taking too much NDT (T3) in that early cortisol production period. Because on the days I sleep through the alarm and have not had anything, I wake up without anxiety and with the large dose I get anxiety and adrenaline. Thank you so much for reminding me of these things. I resolve not to give up.
"I know this because I was on T3 only and this occurred."
Well no, not necessarily. Correlation does not imply causation. It may have signified that you were on too low a dose, or that there was another factor coming into play that became more apparent when ingesting T3 - cortisol issues or nutritional deficits for instance. Have you ever had a 24 hr saliva cortisol test, and/or tested vitamin and mineral levels?
I do have another saliva test kit here I can do again. I am under-medicated but cannot take anything with T3 in it? T3 only caused terrible adrenaline rushes. NDT is now causing the same rushes (but not as bad).
I had all my vits and minerals tested and I am okay. I think I posted them here.
I have just come down from 120mcgs of NDT because I was having these side effects. I shall ask my Endo about whether T3 is just not good for me? Are there other reasons (other than cortisol) why it should cause me these effects? Thanks.
Just some anecdotal info on how I dealt with a cortisol problem and taking T3...
I struggled to tolerate T3 at all in the early days of taking it. My cortisol was actually very high first thing in the morning, not low like yours, and taking T3 at that time made me feel dreadful.
I changed the time I took my first T3 dose to about an hour before lunch because my cortisol level was more "normal" at that time. I also took a dose of T3 about an hour before my evening meal and a tiny, tiny crumb at bedtime. With that dosing pattern I managed to tolerate T3 moderately well. Over a long period of time I altered my dosing pattern quite often, experimenting with how many doses I split the total into and the timing. I did eventually manage to take T3 first thing in the morning, but it took a long time.
I have mucked about with the times a lot. So my understanding is that T3 requires cortisol? Can you explain the rationale behind your splitting? If you don't mind. I am desperate to make this work because I will only have Levo to fall back on and I don't convert. Thanks so much.
I have tried splitting and taking it at different times. Can you explain the rationale behind your timings? My understanding that T3 requires cortisol? Perhaps I should take it at lunchtime when my cortisol if high normal? But then you had trouble taking it when your cortisol was high? This is so complex for this frazzled brain. I'm sorry.
There was no rationale behind my timings, other than I felt awful on T4, and I couldn't tolerate T3 at the times I was taking it. I experimented and found a way of tolerating the T3.
I mentioned Paul Robinson and his Circadian T3 Method above. He uses different timings to improve cortisol. However since my cortisol has never been low (that I'm aware of) I haven't learned about his method. He has written a third book which came out fairly recently called The Thyroid Patient's Manual.
Thanks for the info. I see it is very much in our hands if we get well. I will do the saliva test again (I have one here) and persevere with the NDT. Endured until Cured! Thanks so much for your words of encouragement.
Why do you take T3 to begin with? Not everyone needs it, and some do better on T4 only drugs.
Has it been prescribed by a doctor, or are you self-treating?
Thanks for your reply. I don't have a thyroid since Feb 2017. I was put on T4 and it was hell. No I'm not self treating I have an Endo (In Australia) who I found on this Thyroid forum. He is trying anything I ask to try. I see him next week. T3 gives me the brain clarity I need. T4 takes my brain away. I need T3.
Then it could be the right ratio between T3 and T4 for YOU which can be tricky to find out...with some needing to add some extra T3 or T4 to NDT. But it's great that you have a doctor willing to listen to you and work with you.
Also, some people do better on synthetic T3 and T4 than NDT so if you need T3 in addition to T4 but fail to improve on NDT that could also be an option.
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