So I posted my Medicheck results here yesterday. Very low ferritin, raised TSH, low T4 and T3, low vitamin D...
TSH 5.85 (0.27-4.20)
Free T4 12.100 (12.00-22.00)
Free T3 3.9 (3.10-6.80)
Thyroglobulin antibody 383.000 (0.00-115.00)
Folate (serum) 4.4 (3.89-26.80)
Vitamin D 54.7 (50.00-200.00)
Ferritin 16.7 (13.00-150.00)
I showed my GP the results this morning. He was fairly dismissive - I think it puts their noses out of joint a bit when we take any initiative. He said they'd tested my T3 'For what it's worth' and that my ferritin is fine - perfectly normal for a menstruating female apparently, and many of us 'get by' on these levels. So no chance of an iron panel. Probably no point in my getting one done via Medichecks either as the results would fall on stony ground.
When I mentioned my symptoms: permanently cold and shivery, dizzy, palpitations, tight throat, headaches, tiredness etc. he said most of that would be down to anxiety and the feeling cold is probably a problem with my circulation.
He did agree to start me on 50mg thyroxine - and said that he was only agreeing to that because of my antibodies as my other levels were nothing unusual. I asked if I could avoid Teva as a brand, as they'd been a problem for me in the past. I also mentioned that I'd been informed via Thyroid UK that this was not uncommon. He informed me Thyroid UK and others tended to attract people 'looking for problems' and that I couldn't 'just come in and start choosing what I want - it's not a shop'. I said I wasn't requesting particular brands, I just wanted to avoid that specific one. He replied that I'd have to take what was on offer or the other option was to get my prescription and go to other chemists.
Fortunately it is another brand so I'm OK for the next few months.
God I hate these visits. I didn't sleep last night despite having had everything written down and printed out. Why are we treated like nuisance hypochondriacs - and why are they so patronising and dismissive towards us?
As I live in such a small place, if I was to have problems avoiding Teva in the future is it possible to use my GP's prescription to buy thyroxine online?
It's pure ignorance, that's all. They are taught in med school that hypo is 'easy to diagnose, easy to treat' - thanks to that pillock Dr Anthony Wheatfield, or whatever he's called! And, they're also taught that all women exaggerate, and are hysterical, and that all patients are stupid and liars. And that they are god's chosen people! So, we don't really stand much chance, do we.
I’m not the most assertive person but I ended up being pretty short with him after the comment about me treating the dispensary ‘like a shop’. Maybe they should think about why we end up on forums looking for advice and support. I just can’t bear the sneering attitude - sadly the other male GP in the practice is even worse, and the only female doctor doesn’t come very well recommended. Looks like it’s just me and the internet dealing with this!
I hate doctors, always have. I've had such battles with them over my children. I was always treated like an over-anxious mother, and talked down to. It took me two years to get my son's eye problem diagnosed, and all because they looked at me, instead of him, and dismissed me as neurotic. Maybe I am - although I don't think so - but that doesn't mean that my child can't be sick! Even doctors I've liked as people - rather rare, but still - I've hated when they put their doctor hat on. So, doctor bashing is rather a hobby of mine! lol But, to avoid all that conflict, I just don't go to see them anymore. I can treat myself better than they can treat me, anyway. I've never seen a doctor that didn't make me worse, rather than better, even when it was done with good intentions. They just don't have the knowledge.
In 2014 my mum went to A&E because she kept collapsing. She was 65 and had never been in an ambulance before. The doctor said she was having panic attacks and he didn’t want to see her in there again. The same thing happened the following week. Eventually they agreed to take a closer look. She had metastatic cancer which had spread to her brain. She died seven months later.
Six months after that my sister in law gave birth eight weeks prematurely. The baby was in intensive care; my sister in law came home and was struggling with shortness of breath and swollen legs. The doctor failed to examine her properly and told her to ‘go home and stick your leg in some cold water’. She died the following morning of a blood clot which had travelled to her lung, leaving my brother (who has Aspergers) to cope with a five year old and a premature baby, and two little girls without a mother.
The inquest concluded the death was preventable. The doctor is still practicing.
This is why I have little trust or respect where doctors are concerned.
I've heard so many stories like that. My uncle was 'diagnosed' with indigestion. He died a few hours later of a heart attack. My mother was 'diagnosed' with flu. She died a week later of bladder cancer. My father… and so it goes on. It's not exaggerating to say that most doctors are utterly useless. But, I hated them a long time before that, right from my earliest days of measles and chicken pox. I did not like the way they reacted to me as a child. I did not like they way they reacted to me as a young woman, or as a pregnant woman, as a mother, or now, as an elderly lady. Very few of them have any people skills, and most of them are so far up their own backsides that they do not even look at the patient, and hardly even listen to them. I do not like them. And the less I see of them, the better I feel.
Oh my god. That’s awful. I do wonder if doctors didn’t have the arrogant a dismissive attitude many of them seem to have, their minds would be more open and they wouldn’t miss things like this.
Even better - all GPs and endocrinologists should be told, before they qualify, to read the comments on this forum.The majority of members do not regard their treatment as being optimum as their symptoms don't resolve or they increase. They struggle on. The following statement shows his ignorance:-
"and said that he was only agreeing to that because of my antibodies as my other levels were nothing unusual"
The following is from Dr Toft, retired but I think he still seems some people. He is also Physician to the Queen when she's in Scotland.
If you email Dionne at TUK, (email below) and ask for a copy of Dr Toft's article and highlight the appropriate part of it re prescribing if antibodies present and show to GP.
The basic problem with what doctors have been taught is "to diagnose by the numbers" rather than by addressing the patients symptoms direct (ie looking and listening). For one thing it is a calumny to mock that patients come to TUK because "they are looking for problems". Actually they are looking for answers. A vast gulf has opened up between what doctors think they know from an older, incorrect teaching in the subject, and what is actually the situation known to be true nowadays. For all the patients contacting TUK, there must be a multitude of others, not well on medication but too frightened or accepting to complain. It is intensely frustrating to think that, even if and when the real truth of the matter is clear for all to see, the blinkered establishment in medicine will move heaven and earth (mixed metaphor) not to do anything unless forced. This is exemplified by the failure to promptly lower T3 prices, levels which are unique in the world. This is the great drawback of the NHS. It is a monolith from which orders dressed as guidelines come from on high. And all must obey. In the USA for example, and it is rather sad to have to say so, there is much more freedom through private medicine to take several approaches including T3 and NDT, without authorities coming down hard on those who prescribe in this way. Henry Lindner for example is a shining example of the pragmatic openminded doctor in the US. And it must be stated that prescription of T3 in whatever form is far more frequent in the USA than elsewhere. Your island doctors seem lightyears away from modern thinking.
And it’s incredibly depressing. I often wonder how there can be so many discrepancies between us and others we come into contact with in these forums.
So many books and sites I’ve read about managing this condition are from the US or Australia, and there’s the assumption that we can all access understanding and enlightened medical professionals who will happily prescribe us the meds we need.
Here in the UK it’s very different. Out of touch and arrogant GPs act as gatekeepers to decent treatment which is why so many of us are forced to go it alone, often risking our health in doing so.
So true. Anyone know anything about Canadian GPs? My guess would be that they are better given that Canadians are generally lovely but I could be wrong! I am in such a horrendous way and I've been told I'm mad by GPs (why aren't they giving me psychological help)? I've lost my job, savings, everything. I have dual citizenship - from my mum, I've never lived in Canada - but if it means a cure I'll move. Are their GPs significantly better? And, do health notes transfer automatically between countries? I've been to that many GPs that have not listened to my symptoms and refused to look at before and after pictures of how I looked previously compared to now that I'm scared that if the Canadian docs view my notes, they'll think the same.
You absolutely have to get your ferritin up. For thyroid hormone to work (that's our own as well as replacement hormone) it's said that ferritin needs to be at least 70, preferably half way through range. Your level is so low you need a full blood count to see if there is iron deficiency anaemia and an iron panel to see if there is any other type of anaemia.
You can help raise your level by eating liver regularly, maximum 200g per week due to it's high Vit A content, also liver pate, black pudding, and including lots of iron rich foods in your diet apjcn.nhri.org.tw/server/in...
But you really should get those other tests done first because liver wont be the answer in every case.
Folate (serum) 4.4 (3.89-26.80)
This is way too low. Folate is recommended to be at least half way through range, so 15.5+ with that range. Folate rich foods may help, but a good B Complex containing 400mcg methylfolate would be a good idea - look at Thorne Basic B or Igennus Super B.
Vitamin D 54.7 (50.00-200.00)
(equal to 21.8ng/ml)
This is too low. The Vit D Council recommends a level of 125nmol/L [50ng/ml] and the Vit D Society recommends a level between 100-150nmol/L [40-60ng/ml]. The Vit D Council suggests, to raise your current level to the recommended level, supplementing with 3,700iu D3 daily (you'd need nearest equivalent of 4,000iu).
Retest after 3 months. When you've reached the recommended level then you'll need a maintenance dose which may be 2000iu daily, maybe more or less, maybe less in summer than winter, it's trial and error so it's recommended to retest once or twice a year to keep within the recommended range. You can do this with a private fingerprick blood spot test with an NHS lab which offers this test to the general public:
D3 aids absorption of calcium from food and K2-MK7 directs the calcium to bones and teeth where it is needed and away from arteries and soft tissues where it can be deposited and cause problems such as hardening of the arteries, kidney stones, etc.
D3 and K2 are fat soluble so should be taken with the fattiest meal of the day, D3 four hours away from thyroid meds if taking tablets/capsules/softgels, no necessity if using an oral spray
Magnesium helps D3 to work. We need Magnesium so that the body utilises D3, it's required to convert Vit D into it's active form. So it's important we ensure we take magnesium when supplementing with D3.
Magnesium comes in different forms, check to see which would suit you best and as it's calming it's best taken in the evening, four hours away from thyroid meds if taking tablets/capsules, no necessity if using topical forms of magnesium.
Check out the other cofactors too (some of which can be obtained from food).
As you have Hashi's then an oral spray gives best absorption, eg BetterYou. It comes in D3 alone or D3/K2 combined. Check the number of sprays needed to give the dose you need.
Don't start supplements all at the same time, stagger them. Start with one, give it a week or two and if no adverse reaction then add in the second one, give it another week or two and if no reaction add in the next one, etc. By doing it this way, if you do have any reaction you will know what caused it.
Hi Susie, thank you for all this. Although my GP grudgingly prescribed me the Thyroxine this morning I'm now wondering whether I should actually take it - are my symptoms more likely to be caused by low iron, folate and D3?
I'm feeling overwhelmed and confused by all this, as I now know that when presented with results my doctor dismisses them and gets annoyed that I've gone elsewhere rather than hanging on to his every word...
I use BetterYou sprays (multi vit and D3) and take Solgar magnesium citrate at night. If there's any way I can deal with all this myself, with support from this forum, I'll do it. Involving my GP just leads to unnecessary stress and frustration.
Once my D3 spray runs out I'll replace it with the combined K2. I'll also order the folate, try to eat liver somehow and aim to get the iron panel. There's no way my GP will arrange it as he sees nothing out of the ordinary so if I can sort that out and deal with the necessary treatment myself, I will. I'm really hoping it doesn't require his involvement.
All my doctor does is confuse me, make me question myself and dismiss my concerns - even when I show him legitimate results on paper. This has confirmed what most others on here have concluded: I'll be better off, unless it's an emergency, trying to immprove my health without his questionable input.
i am sure you know that diogenes is a Research Analyst - involved in Thyroid Research. You can click onto his username to read his posts detailing the Research Papers.
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GP appointment
GP appointment
Teva Thyroxine - Feeling unwell
Updated results TSH, fT3 & fT4, ferritin and folate
Mercury Thyroxine/Eltroxine
