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Thyroid UK
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Help please,lab results

Hi everyone,my mum's lab results,she's on levo 100 mg ;she's 74 years old;

Tsh- 0,37 (0.25-5.00)

FT4-13,26 (9.0-20.0 pmol/l)

FT 3- 4.24 (4.0-8.3 pmol/l)

ANTI-TPO 0.8 ( <12.00 IU/mL)

IRON 14.47 (8.900-30.40 umol/l

Glucose 8.301 (3.300- 6.100 mmol/L

UREA 4.685 ( 2.400-7.200)

Creatinine 88.23 (44.00-97 umol/l)

Cholesterol 4.847 (0.000-5.700 mmol/L)

Triglyceride 2.921( 0.000-2.260)

GOT-AST-24.62 (0.000-37.00 UL)

GPT-ALT 33.69 (0.000-41.00 U/I)

Supplementing b12 injections 1000mcg

Liquid iron + vit C 1000

folic acid 800 mcg

D3 vitamin,

Cod liver oil 1000mg

Calcium magnesium and zink

Acid alpha Lipoic 600 mg

Any advice??

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I don’t know much about this - I’m sure some of the other folks on here who are really good at this will reply, but I wondered about the glucose being out of range?

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Thank you missgrace, my mum is diabetic (type 2) she's on medication, metformin and diabos,even though she's on diabetic medication,glucose is out of range,but what is something that i don't get,doctor says that glucose is age related ("it's normal being out of range for elderly ").

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I’d question that. It can cause all kinds of issues, including blindness and circulatory issues. 74 isn’t so elderly these days. I’d bring it up with the endo. Like being hypo, it’s not something a doctor should be casual about in my opinion. That’s not good enough.

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Both of my parents were 93 and 99 when they died nether of them had high sugar. This is elderly, 74 is not old. I am 72 years old and my sugar level is fine.

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Why is she taking calcium? And why Alpha Lipoic Acid?

Despite the low TSH, she is under-medicated. Both her Frees are well below mid-range. She needs an increase in levo. Does she have symptoms of under-medication?

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Thank you greygoose,she's taking calcium because of osteoporosis,also magnezium and zink

She's taking acid alpha lipoic,because doctor says that she has got diabetic neuropathy that's why.

She is sweating a lot,she's confused,memory problems,aches and swollen feet,can't stand long time on feet ( but now while on b12 injections,she's got some improvement (hotter feet,less aches) i don't know if is under medicated or vitamin b12 deficiency ,tomorrow we have an appointment at endo,thanks again 😊

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I hope you get things sorted out for your mum. Good luck.

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Calcium supplements are not good things to take. And calcium is not the most important mineral for bones, even. How's her vit D? If she takes vit D supplements, this will increase her absorption of calcium from food, which would be much better for her than calcium supplements.

Her neuropathy could also be due to low B12. But, she should be aware that taking ALA can reduce her T3. I wonder if her doctor is aware of that.

A lot of her symptoms sound like under-medication, but of course, the B12 deficiency really isn't helping. She does need an increase in meds as well as her B12 injections. Is she taking a B complex, as well?

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Yes she's taking b-complex in low doses,before sleeping she takes amyzol (antidepressants) described by doctor to easies neuropathy on feet as well as b6,it makes her sleepy and relaxed during the night.

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She's taking an antidepressant to ease neuropathy? Never heard that one before! And does it work?

I'm not sure taking a B complex and B6 is a good idea. B6 is the only B vit you can have too much of.

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Thank you greygoose.Well,i think the antidepressant is making her calm,but not sure the neuropathy,in fact she's confused,memory problems,even could not remember what is helpful anymore,she's tired on taking such medication and supplements,I'm worried all the time why doctor never couldn't find ou the real cause of neuropathy?? T

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Well, so many things can cause neuropathy, it's difficult to pinpoint the exact cause. Already we know she has hypo and B12 deficiency, so that's two causes. Problem is, he's not treating the hypo properly. Although, it could be that the neuropathy has reached the point of no-return. But, he's already giving her ALA for the neuropathy, I don't see the need for the antidepressants. The antidepressants could, in fact, be making her hypo worse. But, doctors will jump on any excuse to prescribe antidepressants because they get funding points - or whatever - for prescribing them. I've just never heard that excuse before. And I'm just guessing that that is just an excuse and she probably doesn't need them.

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GG ,what is the problem with calcium supplements ? Are you meaning if hypo or generally?

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No, I'm meaning for everybody. I've already posted twice on that subject. I'll have a look later and see if I can find the posts. :)

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Where did you see that ALA influence T3? In which doses? You are talking about ALA that is in the cod liver oil? Ta

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Her FT3 and FT4 are too low

She needs vitamin D, folate and ferritin tested

For full Thyroid evaluation she needs TSH, FT4, FT3 plus TPO and TG thyroid antibodies and also very important to test vitamin D, folate, ferritin and B12

Private tests are available. Thousands on here forced to do this as NHS often refuses to test FT3 or antibodies or vitamins

thyroiduk.org.uk/tuk/testin...

Medichecks Thyroid plus ultra vitamin or Blue Horizon Thyroid plus eleven are the most popular choice. DIY finger prick test or option to pay extra for private blood draw. Both companies often have money off offers.

All thyroid tests should ideally be done as early as possible in morning and fasting. When on Levothyroxine, take last dose 24 hours prior to test, and take next dose straight after test. This gives highest TSH, lowest FT4 and most consistent results. (Patient to patient tip, GP will be unaware)

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d3 ,58.0 ranges (14.0--60.0 ng/ml)

IRON 14.47 (8.900-30.40 umol/l)

B12 318 (200-1000)

In our country folate test,doesn't exist.

But my mum takes folic acid 800 mcg everyday,thanks so much for your response.

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Excess B6 can cause symptoms

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She takes 100 mg of b6, before bad.

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.... and how much B6 in the B Complex ? How long has your Mum been on B12 injections ? - and was the B12 result you posted before the injections started ?

Does she have lower back issues ? -

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B-complex contains 20 mg b6,

Yes the result are before injections,

In the first week she took the injectoins every two days,for 10 days;

then every day for 10 day,

and now again every three days, everyday she's getting better 🌝

She never complains about lower back,thank you Marz.

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Am wondering with both doses of B6 if she is taking too much - maybe check . Hope all goes well with the Endo ...

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Thank you Marz,we were yestarday at endo,he said some things that i don't get,he says FT 4 it's ok (13.24) FT 3 it's not important as FT4 is .

He said she doesn't need to raise the dose of levo (100 mg) because the TSH IS O.37.She's ok he said and the next meeting is after 2 month,whit TSH and T4

My mum doesn't have tears and salivia, sore tounge (better now from b12 injectoins) but still not good enough,endo said she's suspected for Sjogren syndrome and she needs te see a rheumathalog 🙁

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Of course like so many Endos they do not understand the thyroid adequately to explain correctly to their patients. T4 is secreted by the Thyroid and is a storage hormone - doing very little in the body. It needs to convert into the ACTIVE Thyroid Hormone T3 - needed in every one of the trillions and trillions of cells in the body - so when the FT3 is low in range there is NOT enough to go around to all the cells and things begin to go wrong.

The FT4 result looks low in range - as is the FT3 - so I am sure you can see the Endo does not have a complete understanding.

I would ensure the B12 injections continue. I expect you can buy them over the counter in your country.

Hopefully the Sjogren can be ruled out or confirmed by the Rheumatologist.

Such a nightmare for you trying to sort it all for your Mum - wishing her well ...

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I hope Marz,I'm so sad and disappointed,crying all the time 😢

My mum was a teacher and she doesn't have any support from state

We have to pay everything (lab analysis,doctors) and she couldn't afford it,we are stucked 😢

She's sick i know that and i couldn't do anything for her that's a nightmare, thank you for supporting me.

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Keep on trying. My Mum passed away some 18 years ago - and at that time I did not have the knowledge I now have. I feel she slipped away undiagnosed but treated for conditions she did not have. She is one of the reasons I hang around this Forum learning new topics and hoping to be able to support others ... also have a daughter who had thyroid cancer which was initially ignored until she went privately for testing. We have to do what we think best - even if we are accused of nagging :-)

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Mars, but by increasing the levo dose it will make the TSH lower which I think it is drifting away from 1 that is considered the ideal value.

Since the conversion is made on the liver don't you think that the liver solhoudl be supported? But FT4 is still low. Could it be that it is not being taken at the correct time?

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Certainly absorption could be a problem by taking it either with other meds or foods ... I have read here many times that once on medication the TSH is of little value in adjusting doses ...

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When does she take calcium? That can prevent thyroxine uptake. Need to be taken at least four hours apart. I went hypo when I was prescribed calcium, because no one told me not to take them at the same time.

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The levo she takes at 8 in the morning ,and the calcium at 4 pm.

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She needs to be sure to take both Vitamins D3 and K2, especially if she is taking calcium. That way the calcium will go to her bones and not to her heart (causibg calcifications). Many docs actually do not recommend calcium supps anymore for bone health. Just D3 and K2, so the calcium in the diet gets to where it needs to go (bones, not heart). My blood sugar and triglycerides were also that high before I went low carb/ high fat/moderate protein. That plus 16/8 fasting brought all my levels back into range. If she’s having cognitive issues, let her know that Alzheimer’s is now being called diabetes type 3. She could benefit from a lchf ketogenic diet (brain does really well on ketones for energy, especially if it has lost the ability to use glucose as a fuel, which is what happens in Alzheimer’s—it’s essentially insulin resistance of the brain). If she won’t change her diet (which I get—my mom won’t change hers either), you could try giving her exogenous ketones or at least mct oil/coconut oil (e.g. bulletproof coffee) to help give her cognition a boost. Highly recommend Dr. Jason Fung’s 3 books The Diabetes Code, The Complete Guide to Fasting, and the Obesity Code. Also HIGHLY recommend The End of Alzheimer’s by Dr. Dale Bredesen (prevention and reversal of cognitive decline my managing lifestyle and genetic risk factors). Being diabetic and hypothyroid are both major risk factors for Alzheimer’s so getting her adequately treated for both will be crucial. Also test her Copper to Zinc ratio. Women tend to have too much copper (which in and of itself can cause hypothyroidism, not to mention depression, anxiety, and adhd) and too little zinc. Ratio should be 1 to 1 for optimal brain health according to Dr. Bredesen. Hope this helps.

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Thank you Catania 1, exogenous ketones,what's that? And mct oil/coconut oil is it just coconut oil??

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Your body can run on two sources of energy: glucose (short acting) and ketones (long acting). Your body can make it’s own ketones if you eat a high fat/low carb/moderate protein or “ketogenic” diet (usually 20-50 carbs per day, but some can get away with a few more carbs—depends on your level of insulin resistance) or if you practice intermittent fasting (“IF”), (for example, eat for 8 hours, and fast for 16 hrs every day). IF is MUCH easier to do, however, if you’re also on a lchf diet because the high fat keeps you full for much longer. (I was hungry 24-7 when I ate a high-carb diet—terrible!). There is a lot of talk about using exogenous ketones (ketones you take orally, as opposed to the ones your body can make if you follow a lchf diet and/or IF) as a way to help Alzheimer’s patients improve cognition, especially those who may not be capable of changing their diet. There’s an article in Psychology Today on the ketogenic diet and Alzheimer’s—it won’t let me post the link but you can find by googling “ketogenic diet promising mild Alzheimers disease Psychology Today”

Coconut oil is just one source of MCT oil (these oils help your body produce ketones).

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Thank you Catania 1 ,really preciate your advises 😊

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I have T2 Diabetes and as Catania says Low carb high fat has helped. I am no longer on any medication and my levels are now at non diabetic levels. My GP once said you can have higher blood glucose at your age as there isn’t that much time for complications to set in. I was 67 at the time. :-(. But I am concerned at what your mum is having to put up with. I think she could do with more questions being asked as to whether the B12 deficiency and symptoms like sweating and memory issues have anything to do with Pernicious Anaemia or Cushings Disease or something else.

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Thank you Murray58,i don't know about those issues you have mentioned,but i known a thing that my mum doesn't have tears and salivia,itchy ears and nose,also sometimes dry cough for no reason.

Endo said she's suspected for a sindrome called Sjogren syndrom, and she needs to see a rheumathalog 🙁

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How to the decrease copper levels? Where did you see this info that high copper levels can be related to hypo? Ta

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From my internist (an MD), but also from several online sources. This forum won’t let me share web links, but if you google “copper toxicity hypothyroidism” you’ll find several resources like this (see Dr. Ann Louise Gittleman’s book on copper toxicity for more info—it’s called “Why Am I Always So Tired?”):

“According to Dr. Ann Louise Gittleman, “Copper and zinc tend to work in a seesaw relationship with each other. When the levels of one of these minerals rise in the blood and tissues, the levels of its counterpart tend to fall. Ideally, copper and zinc should be in a 1:8 ratio in favor of zinc. But stress, overexposure to copper, or a low intake of zinc can throw the critical copper-zinc balance off, upsetting normal body functioning.”

This imbalance can slow thyroid function. Dr. Gittleman goes on to say that a copper-zinc imbalance can not only keep us weight loss resistant, but can also thwart that important T4 (the inactive form of thyroid hormone) to T3 (the active form of thyroid hormone) conversion.

When the thyroid is underactive, it can inhibit your digestive system from absorbing those above-mentioned, “critical” thyroid minerals – copper, zinc, and selenium. This is a classic negative feedback loop. You need these minerals for proper thyroid function, but low thyroid function can keep you from absorbing them.

A copper/zinc imbalance can also lead to:

Compromised immune function

Sun sensitivity

General skin sensitivities

Depression

Anxiety

Extreme fatigue

Panic attacks

Acne

Psoriasis

Migraines

Eczema

Attention deficit

White spots on fingernails

Severe PMS

Extreme cases: schizophrenia ”

Hope that helps!

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You have low T3 and low to normal T4. This could be a conversion problem. Have you ever been prescribed T3?

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No never GKeith 🙁

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I believe you should check with your endo, if you have one, or your GP. T3 is, for me personally, a miracle drug, when compared with T4, even though I lived as normal as I could have wanted to, for the first 26 years by treating my underactive thyroid with T4 alone, 88 mcg, and never having that dose ever changed by my doctor(s), or even discussed. Lispuhiza, it is a shame that anyone with hypo, especially by endo's like mine, who specializes in diabetes, should have to suffer due to their (these doctors) ignorance and I call it ignorance because that's just what it is. That, plus the fact that they really have no "time" to "bother" with such a minor, to them, disease, if they even recognize it as a disease, as hypothyroidism, which they consider as more of a cold, compared to their diabetes patients who would (comparatively) have pneumonia. The last visit I had with him in a plea for more T3 he yelled at me that: "I only had an underactive thyroid gland not diabetes?" So, we have to basically "treat ourselves." BTW, he prescribed another 10 mcg of T3 for me and when I ask him for another 10 in 2 months if he doesn't give it to me, I will change endo's. You must, for god's sake, for your own health's sake, educate yourself against this tyranny these doctors have to gang up together and just because a majority of them make a certain statement they claim it to be the God's only truth, when, in reality, it is simply another the devil's fool's thinking they can do what they want. Please help yourself to any questions I, or anyone else, can help you with, we are all in the same boat together and, in fact, there are so many of us that only if we stick together can we help each other from going under. If the boat gets too overloaded it will sink and we will sink with it. The laws, all laws, whether they be medical or legal, must make sense, they must be fair to everyone and not be made so that any particular group of people are hurt. As it is, right now, many countries, including the UK and many States in America, have laws that give such "power" to many individuals, doctors included, that can, literally, mean life or death to too many people. May the Lord's grace, mercy and peace be with you as you continue your journey.

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I actually have a conversion problem (due to too much copper and not enough zinc), so I am currently on T3 only medication. I’m very lucky my internist is aware of reverse t3 (and tests for it)—most docs only test TSH. For additional info on this important thyroid subject (and much more) go to the website for “Stop the Thyroid Madness” or google “stop the thyroid madness reverse t3” for their specific entry on this subject. Hypothyroidism is notoriously undertreated, so we have to educate ourselves and be our own advocates. Often functional docs will be more helpful and up-to-date than endocrinologists, but you may have to pay more out of pocket. To get started learning about hypothyroidism so yoy can make sure you’re getting the right treatment (or if you need to find a new doc!), read Elle Russ’ amazing book “The Paleo Thyroid Solution” for a wealth of Thyroid health information. (She also hosts a podcast—just seach for her name in your Podcast app.) Other excellent thyroid health books: Two by Isabella Wentz—“Hashimotos Protocol” and “The Root cause” and one by Paul Robinson called “Recovering With T3.” (All on Amazon).

**Also IMPORTANT FOR THYROID LABS**

If you take vitamins or supplements, STOP TAKING anything with BIOTIN in it a week before your thyroid labs are taken. Biotin interferes with thyroid lab results, making you appear HYPERthyroid, when you could actually by HYPOthyoid (not enough thyroid hormone/slow metabolism). This mistake could result in your doctor mistakenly lowering your dose of thyroid medication (or misdiagnosing you all together).

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Thank you for these helpful advices Catania 1,we're suffering for good doctors, unfortunately living with misdiagnosis🙁

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