NDT's being done away with?

[chimonger]

Anyone else, other than those in the USA, having trouble getting Natural Desiccated Thyroid medicine [NDT's]? I have no clue about how it is in UK.... but in USA, Pharmacists, Docs, and drug companies have been trying to coerce people change to taking synthetic T4 only [like Synthroid], for well over 10 years. They've used all sorts of ridiculous excuses, starting with: 1.Manmade is better; 2.it's cheaper; 3.it's the same as NDT's; 4.NDT's are "harsh"; 5."they aren't making NDT's anymore";...... and escalating the last few years, into: 6.NDT's are bad; 7.fail to work; 8.insurance won't cover NDT's; etc.

It's known that Armor Thyroid, the standby for over 100 years, changed their formula, so many find it fails to work properly. Westhroid makes NatureThroid and Westhroid Pure [WP], but I've had difficulty finding how to contact them to ask questions lately. Are there other makers of NDT's?

Ask Docs or pharma why they'd say NDT's are "harsh", and they cannot /will not say. Ask them why they think synthetics are "better", and they cannot/will not say. Ask why insurers are stopping coverage of NDT's, none will say. Ask insurers why they don't cover NDT's. they won't say. Trying to contact makers of NDT's, it like trying to find hens' teeth.

But I can tell you: NDT's contain both T4 and T3. But the body must convert into active form of T3 in order to use; therefore, NDT's can help many thousands of hypothyroid patients who are unable, for one reason or another, to convert T4 into T3, because NDT delivers T3, ready to use. IF a Doc is open to it, they might RX Citomel [T3], but generally will only give that temporarily. Many reasons why T4 gets blocked, include: person's inability to convert it to T3; tens of thousands of manmade hormone-interrupting chemicals everyone's exposed to daily, can potentially interrupt ALL hormones, not just a couple....at the chemical conversion stage, and/or by blocking receptor sites; poor dietary nutrition, etc.

Also, one of the main companies that makes NDT's, Westhroid, WHOLESALES a bottle of #100 Westhroid Pure, 0.5 grain, at under $30.USD. RETAIL, direct, no insurance, cost around $45.USD. But the real "tell" of the systems....is that if I took the same RX to Group Health/Kaiser Permanente [major HMO health providers], to fill at their pharmacy, they charged not only about $45. out-of-pocket, then, pharmacy turned right around, _and billed their Insurance arm, nearly $80.USD_. That means insurers are part of why costs are artificially going up....a lot. And Pharma is part of it, protecting their profiteering, because NDT's are not "patented" the way manmade drugs are.

Also, an NDT supplier in S.E. Asia, who's been trying to help people who've been blocked accessing NDTs from pharmacies, at least in USA, has been blocked from doing business by the government of Thailand tightening up on what gets sent through the mail....who else will this adversely affect? Is this only hitting the NDT market? Or might it also be hitting other markets? That comes back around to Pharma...pharmaceutical corporations are one of the biggest, most profiteering, most controlling industries in the world. Pharmaceutical corporations get laws changed to suit themselves, by bribing lawmakers, the FDA, the CDC, etc.

People in USA have been constantly slammed with some of the highest prices for almost all meds, forever. And, the tightest limitations on getting meds, which in other countries are Over-the-Counter and cheap. Pharma wants to keep obscene level of profiteering. They have been working hard to prevent citizens in USA from getting their needed meds from other countries, by spreading disinformation campaigns, threatening huge fines, scare tactics, anything to stop citizens from buying meds for less, from other countries. There Might be some measure of caution, re: reliable purity and consistency of drugs...but they're over-using that excuse; often, the drugs bought from other countries, are the same, from the same companies.

Pharma fights back by denouncing NDT's, and other natural remedies, by spreading hordes of disinformation online, and via drug reps that visit Doc's offices spreading disinformation...though those may not even know it.

Anyone else been repeatedly approached to stop using NDT's for their low thyroid, in other countries? Are Pharmaceutical corporations at work there as they are here? What excuses have you been given, for why you should change to manmade analogue drugs? Inquiring minds really want to know!

[shaws]

In the UK, we have had NDT withdrawn for a few years now.

Doctors and Endocrinologists and the medical profession have had the wool pulled over their eyes often.

Just like we, who wash our clothes with one powder which promises whiter than white and we find it doesn't.

Nothing equates with a life-giving hormone which we know has worked well since 1892 in various forms up until the 1950's/60's.

Dr Lowe, before his death, castigated Big Pharma through monetary incentives to doctors/endocrinologists, and quite clearly states corruption, to prescribe levothyroxine before NDTs and false rumours were spread about NDTs.

Big Pharma could see big profits from the millions of people who are prescribed levothyroxine. Also if some of us didn't feel very well and had remaining clinical symptoms which were then diagnosed as 'something' unconnected to hypo because TSH was 'in range'and given prescriptions for the symptom. So, more prescriptions, more monies.

thyroidscience.com/Criticis...

Despite two reminders to those to whom it was directed in the above link, they never did respond, despite three yearly reminders. The refused to acknowledge scientific facts.

They are determined, come hell or high water, that levothyroxine will supersede NDT and it has gradually been withdrawn over the past years and stopped prescribing altogether in the UK. They have fallen for Big Pharma's promotion that levo is consistent and NDT isn't.

In the meantime people worldwide are being denied being prescribed NDTs, even on a trial,

Where is the compassion or whatever led them to be doctors/endocrinologists, it has been lost somewhere along the road and patients are suffering unnecessarily so, losing marriages, jobs, relationships and life.

First, in UK, NDT was stopped being prescribed. Now they have stopped the prescribing of T3 - both in favour of levothyroxine.

They have closed their ears and lost their hearts somewhere along the line in that not everything has been done to ensure their patient recovers through any means available. Endocrinologists frightened of with losing livelihoods

We don't need to be well educated to suss out that a T4 only product will not suit every person, whereas one that is more conducive to the human body and provides, T4, T3, T2, T1 and calcitonin may well do At the very least, if levo isn't working, we should be allowed to trial NDTs, sometimes we need to try more than one.

We cannot be constrained to T4 only if we remain very unwell or get even more clinical symptoms when on it.

I know of one who contemplated suicide before switching to NDT and who now has a Petition before the Scottish Parliament.

I also know of another woman who did commit suicide and left a note for the coroner to inform him/her of why she couldn't cope any more.

Why should people be driven to such depths through intolerant/uneducated doctors/endocrinologists. Are they completely untouched that we look to them to solve our ill-health by trying any alternatives if necessary.

[Marz]

Big Pharma are more powerful than any government and neither are about benefitting the people and their health. Modern Healthcare is all about money and a poor business model at that .....

[MEWN]

I have no thyroid was surgery removed! I have graves diease and have polumary hypertension, stage 3 kidney disease and starts of pre diabete! Over weight! Do you have any suggestions for me!

[Marz in reply to MEWN]

I would create your own post so more people will see it and post helpful replies. Welcome to the Forum 😊

[chimonger in reply to MEWN]

Perhaps, find a good alternative care practitioner or Doc, willing to help find natural ways to help rebalance your system. You might need to 'do an end-run' around the industries trying to put billions of people in early graves, by doing self-directed lab tests [see online], coupled with knowledgable alternative care practitioners who can help you learn which tests, and interpreting the results.

They can evaluate your situation, to determine what might work best for you, in person.

Question that made me wonder: How can you still have Graves Disease, after having your thyroid completely removed? Graves Disease, traditional, I thought, was present if the thyroid gland is present and randomly spiking to hyper, then falling to hypo, in random patterns? Once the gland is removed, it's no longer there to do that....unless they left a bit in? In which case, you might get lucky if it starts to work again....

On your own: you can look online to find good resources for a kidney-safe diet. Then adapt that to include as much of that as fully organically grown; and, stop eating all GMO foods, particularly grains, from your diet; and, stop consuming added sugars of all kinds. Those are fairly basic dietary changes which can help almost all.

[helvella in reply to chimonger]

A lot depends on how you define Graves disease.

It is well-known that Graves Orbitopathy often occurs after removal of the thyroid.

It is well-known that the thyroid can re-grow after removal of the thyroid.

There seems no basis to assume a complete lack of TSH receptor antibodies after removal of thyroid.

Are there any GMO grains for sale in the UK as human food?

[helvella]

The "manmade" thyroid hormone medicines levothyroxine and liothyronine are NOT patented in the USA (nor the UK).

Levothyroxine was never patented in the USA.

In countries where prices of "manmade" products are proportionate to the costs of manufacture (and distribution, etc.), they are considerably less expensive than desiccated thyroid products.

[startagaingirl]

Actually no it is not easier everywhere else than the states and medications are not always cheaper everywhere else. I have lived in some 3rd world countries with more expensive meds. And it is still much, much easier to access things like NDT in the states than it is in most of Europe, for example.

[chimonger in reply to startagaingirl]

Good to know!

[silverfox7]

What is Hillary Clinton taking? Isn't that NDT? She should wade into the debate!

[helvella in reply to silverfox7]

Last I read, it was Armour.

[Katelou]

Maybe that's why the price of of Armour went through the roof, once Hilary Clinton's health record was published as a presidential candidate! !

[chimonger in reply to Katelou]

Formulation of Armor, changed some years back, and many felt it was not doing as well on it.

[Rapunzel]

I have just logged in to my supplier in the US and this came up against my preferred NDT choice

'Please note that Nature-Throid is no longer available in 4 grain and 5 grain strengths. These strengths have been discontinued by the manufacturer.

Currently RLC Labs is experiencing production issues and some of their products are unavailable from time to time.'

I can't recall seeing this before when ordering. I'm bummed out now. The 1.5 grains I use is also not available at the moment. Hope this resolves itself by the time I need to buy again but that's thankfully some way off. As if it wasn't difficult enough already. (My last order 200 1.5 grain NatureThroid was £97 odd and then £16 odd to the Royal Mail ( who helpfully calculated their cut wrong in my favour again - yay Royal Mail! Love you!) when it hit the UK )

[helvella in reply to Rapunzel]

The note about 4 and 5 grain products has been there for some time - I think at least months.

[researcherUK in reply to Rapunzel]

Rapunzel, Nature-Throid and WP Thyroid Availability Update:

"NATURE-THROID & WP THYROID·FRIDAY, AUGUST 18, 2017

We are happy to announce that, after encountering some delays, our manufacturing upgrades are complete and we are hard at work getting back to our usual pace.

In staying true to our mission of supplying the highest quality medications for hypothyroidism, we recently implemented significant upgrades to our facility and equipment. The process of upgrading, along with a surge of orders that we received at the time, caused us to fall behind in meeting the growing demand for Nature-Throid and WP Thyroid.

We will be working our way out of the delay over the next few months and are doing our best to expedite the process. We are unfortunately unable to provide any definitive timeframes around availability at this time, but will share updated information when we can. Rest assured that neither Nature-Throid nor WP Thyroid are being discontinued, despite what you may have heard.

Patients whose pharmacies list their prescription strength as unavailable at time of pick up are encouraged to contact our customer service team at 877-797-7997 or [e-mail]. Our team is on standby, ready to assist patients in locating a pharmacy that carries their prescription. Patients may also try one of the mail-order pharmacies that we work with for a potentially faster turnaround: bit.ly/RLCFindAPharmacy.

We are making every effort to expedite the transition to better serve our patients, physicians, pharmacies, and distributors. Patients are and always have been our top priority, and we are steadfast in our commitment to making safe and effective medications for the treatment of hypothyroidism.

If you have any questions, please don’t hesitate to message us or contact our customer service team. We thank you for your patience and understanding during this time.

*Please discuss any health-related questions or concerns, including those about symptoms, with your physician. "

Reply

[chimonger in reply to researcherUK]

I've been in direct contacts with both RLC Labs, which makes NatureThroid and WP [Westhroid Pure], and numerous pharmacies in our area. RLC repeatedly said their new facility is up and running, rapidly filling back-orders....that was over a month ago.

OTH, Pharmacies are a different nut to crack: Apparently Pharmacies get supplies from one or the other of centralized supply companies. In our region at least, most pharmacies get supplies from the "Cardinal" company. I don't know what companies are prevalent in your regions; could be a sister company under a larger umbrella...it's commonly about middlemen and massive profiteering by Pharmaceutical companies.

When a centralized supplier, &/or insurance company, drops certain medications from their formularies or coverage, pharmacies depending on those suppliers or insurers, cannot get them. The common information given consumers is: "That product is no longer available".

Then commences the chain-reaction: ===Doctors are affected by that, in what they can prescribe, especially within an HMO or Clinic, limited by what's on the formularies accepted by the Group. So they also tell patients it can't be got anymore, and push patients to go for the manmade analogue drug. ===Which results in patients failing to get relief of symptoms, in the case of artificial T4, like Synthroid, because so many manmade chemical compounds in our environment, block a body's ability to convert T4 into the usable T3, and/or, get/use it at the receptor sites. ===And because of this chronic trend, there are Doctors out there telling patients: "Just because you take a thyroid supplement, don't expect relief of your low-thyroid symptoms!"

THAT, in most consumers minds, translates to: "ARHGH?! Where will I be able to find the NDT that works for me, that I need?!??"

Which leads many to seek: Compounding Pharmacies. Pharmacies must get their raw materials to compound, from same sources [freeze-dried thyroid?]. It's all about how they formulate their products, what fillers are used. Those using WP or NatureThroid, probably do so, because of sensitivity to commonly used fillers. Some pharmacists can be weird about filling orders.....which adds to the sense of broken trust between patients & the systems they must figure how to navigate.

So, how can patients trust their pharmacies to actually compound their NDT properly? === Many pharmacy staff are clueless of the problems caused by industries coercing or forcing patients to change over to artificial T4. === Many Health Care staff commonly still think they can trick unsuspecting patients into accepting the change-over, by covertly giving the drug the Provider thinks patients are faking sensitivity to, based on various false notions. === When Pharmacy opens the sealed bottles from RLC Labs, to limit patients to 90-day supplies [a ridiculous limitation for this!], how can patients trust that something else was not substituted? === With the chronic, very strong pushes by industries to delete NDT's from formularies, and all of the various collusions of odd notions by healthcare providers....can patients even trust companies that make the NDT's?