Anger, help!

[misslissa]

Hi, my temper and general mental health is not good. I'm so angry. I thought it was a pmt thing but I'm still bad early in my cycle. I'm very stressed but I've had stress before and never got so angry. I can't talk myself down, it's upsetting me and everyone around me. Is this a common Hypothyroid thing?

I'm currently on 50mcg t4 and 20mcg T3 (2x10 per day). Started after last blood test a month ago.

These were my results. Lab refused ft4 and ft3 despite those results being pretty important.

Ferritin 57ug/l (20-250)

B12 571ng/l (190-900) (supplementing and up from 234)

Folate 8ug/l (2-19)

Vit D 106.9nmol (>50)

TSH 0.19mu (0.35-5.5)

Older ft4 was 14.9 (11-23) in august

I don't know how to stop this mood, it's exhausting.

[puncturedbicycle]

Sorry to hear you're feeling angry. I know what you mean when you say it's exhausting. I'd love to be the sort of person who is easily pleased and I'm not and I'm sure having Hashi's and being hormonal doesn't help.

As you probably suspect you will need your t3 and t4 testing, and if your gp or endo won't do it you can do a private test. Too much t3 can make you feel angry and aggressive. It may just be a matter of reworking the ratio so you're taking a little more levo and a little less lio.

Could you be perimenopausal? That can also cause mood changes.

[misslissa in reply to puncturedbicycle]

The last test (NHS) the lab refused to test ft3 which is absurd as I take T3! So will pester next time and make a complaint.

I'm 36 so it would be early to be perimenopausal but not out of the question I guess.

I've had private tests with BH before, just can't afford to do too often.

[puncturedbicycle in reply to misslissa]

Ok, this may not help - maybe you're doing it all already - but the following efforts are the only reason my t3 gets done (for now anyway).

1) In addition to checking the box for the t3 blood test, it is handwritten on the form (I guess by the gp?) that I'm actually taking t3.

2) The phlebotomist knows about it and always double-checks the paperwork is correct. (Sorry to say I think the only reason this is done now is because it used to be a terrible pain in the @rse for her - she used to be trying to do it all herself at the blood draw - and now she checks it all over before I come in. So being a squeaky wheel and a thorn in the side of the surgery folk can help at that end. And she is a real pro so it helps to have one solid helpful connection at the surgery even if it isn't your gp.)

3) The lab may still refuse to do it, but if you get your results in time and the t3 is missing the surgery can ring the lab and get them to test the reserved blood (they keep it for a week I believe). Not sure why they refuse first and then do the test after the phone call but that's what happened. Thyroid results take less time than other stuff at my surgery, so I ring after a couple of days and when the results come in I go and collect a copy immediately so then there is usually time to contact the lab if the results aren't there.

Like I said, this may not help, but for now it gets the job done for me, so I thought it can't hurt to share it.

Good luck.

[HLAB35]

Your low (but improving) B12 could be a factor - have you been diagnosed with Pernicious Anaemia? Low B12 can have significant neurological effects. Are you sleeping well, or have you noticed that you've got a racing heart rate? Also, how is your gut health?

[misslissa in reply to HLAB35]

Dr won't test for PA, certainly not now I supplement as my results look fine.

My sleep is awful but that's due to having a 3 year old that has never slept through....

Heart rate doesn't race. Gut health isn't good, I get constipated, not badly but I can go a couple of days easy. Sometimes I then get mild cramps and loose stool. Bit up and down.

[puncturedbicycle in reply to misslissa]

Your gp should look into that and if necessary refer you to a gastro. I have the same thing and apparently it isn't normal. I ended up having a colonoscopy.

[eeng]

You could try only taking one of your two daily T3 doses a day for a few days and see if that helps. You would still be taking the thyroxine, which hangs around in the body for weeks, so you would probably have enough thyroid hormone to keep you well. If that doesn't make a difference you could keep taking all the T3 and stop the Levothyroxine for a few days. It's worth seeing what works for you.

[misslissa in reply to eeng]

Do you mean halve my T3?

[eeng in reply to misslissa]

well puncturedbicycle suggested that too much T3 can cause anger problems, so yes, for a couple of days you could halve your T3. A couple of days should be enough for you to be able to tell whether it has helped or not. If it hasn't helped you can go back to the original dose and try something else. Just an idea.

[misslissa in reply to eeng]

I would if I felt different to pre T3 but I don't. My anger has been bad for most of this year x

[Hidden]

I used to get like this but I think a lot of it was due to low blood sugar and hypos. I cut out caffeine which fixed the hypos and my outbursts stopped. I was even referred for anger management at one time. I defiantly think the hypos were due to poor thyroid function. It is a symptom.

[misslissa in reply to Hidden]

I only drink decaf, very very occasional normal caffeinated.

I do get huge sugar cravings though.

[humanbean]

I had a really severe temper problem, to the extent that I thought I would start punching people soon if I couldn't find the cause. NOT punching people took what I consider to have been heroic levels of self-control.

I found the answer for my problem quite by accident. I stopped eating gluten. Within a week my temper problem had vanished. I can still have a short-lived problem if I get glutened.

I think my problem is gluten ataxia but I have never had, or sought, a diagnosis from a doctor. I suspect I would have been given a mental health diagnosis if I had seen my doctor about it. And anti-depressants would have done nothing to help the underlying problem, of course.

Ataxia is the name given to a group of neurological disorders that affect balance, coordination, and speech. There are many different types of ataxia that can affect people in different ways.

Source : ataxia.org.uk/what-causes-a...

My balance was badly affected but has improved quite a bit, I was also becoming more and more clumsy and going gluten-free has reduced the problem, word-finding is still a problem.

[misslissa in reply to humanbean]

That's interesting, I'll be honest I'm still not convinced on gluten free. I don't think it's wrong, many people say it helps all manner of things. I guess if I'm honest the thought of implementing scares me. I live in a chaotic house, I'm shattered and stressed, I'm copping out rather than giving it a go.

[humanbean in reply to misslissa]

I must admit I didn't like the idea of going gluten-free which is why I put it off for so many years. I'd had coeliac testing which came back negative and I don't have autoimmune hypothyroidism so I thought I would be wasting my time. I kinda hoped that I would get no benefit so I could go back to eating what I wanted.

I was quite annoyed when I realised being g-f was helping me a lot. But just because it helped me doesn't mean it will automatically help anyone else.

[misslissa in reply to humanbean]

I'm sceptical, whether that's out of laziness or science I'm not sure! Both prob. I'm AI hashi and negative for celiac.

I think if I lived alone I'd do it but starting is so daunting. If someone just handed me gf food I'd go gf.....

[puncturedbicycle in reply to misslissa]

If it's any consolation I found gf much easier than I had anticipated. Fresh food is gf if you don't add gluten to it. If you don't try to combine it w dairy-free, vegan diet etc it can be very simple, just the usual meat and veg, eggs, most cheeses etc. If you're a toast and sandwiches person you can eat the the usual but using gf bread. (I liked Genius.)

There are some issues w mayo and anything w malt vinegar (spirit vinegar is gf) but tbh there is so little gluten in these items I doubt it would throw off your results. There are online lists of foods that can contain gluten (certain cheeses, prepared foods etc) and those brands which are gf. W a little prep you could deffo do it for a week and see how you feel.

By the same token, you needn't feel bad if now is not the time. You need to be ready to commit to it even if for a short time, and maybe you need to feel either a bit better (so you have the energy) or a bit worse (so you feel a bit more eager to make a change) first.

It is important to be kind to yourself. I don't think laziness is the primary issue here, you're exhausted and emotionally overwhelmed.

[misslissa in reply to puncturedbicycle]

Thank you, that's very supportive x

[puncturedbicycle in reply to misslissa]

x

[Eddie83]

Anger can be caused by hypo- or hyper-thyroid, accompanied by low and/or arrhythmic adrenal function. You may also have nutritional deficiencies that weren't revealed by the above tests.

If you can afford private testing, I would get FT3 and FT4 done. Your T3:T4 dosage of 2:5 is even more T3 than the 1:4 ratio in NDT. A 5-sample saliva test of adrenal cortisol level is a must in a condition like this. If you cannot afford a saliva test (which shows both amount and rhythm of cortisol), your MD might be willing to do a 24-hour urine test, which (at least) shows you how much cortisol you are producing over 24 hours. Chances are that an abnormal level of cortisol means your DHEA has gone low.

One trial you could do is this. (I learned this from my bouts with anger and anxiety.) Simply don't take any thyroid for one day, then decide: do you feel better the next day? This can mean at least 2 things: either you are hyperthyroid, or your nutritional levels and/or adrenal output are such that your body cannot attain the state of being euthyroid.

If you have any history of digestive disorders (IBS, Crohn's, celiac), or are over 40, then I would suggest you take a hard look at your protein levels (albumin, globulins, Total Blood Protein). Naturopaths will sometimes use TAAT (targeted amino acid therapy) in cases like this. Labs are infamous for offering the patient a TBP range which is too broad, typically 6.2-8.3 g/dl. The pharmacist James LaValle says the appropriate range is narrower.

[misslissa in reply to Eddie83]

Hi, I'm waiting on a synacthen test as my cortisol came back lower than the endo wanted.

I'm incredibly stressed these days so actually expected my result to be high not low.

I've had the saliva one done in the past, mix of slight highs and lows but nothing extreme.

[Eddie83 in reply to misslissa]

Keep in mind what Jefferies said 40+ years ago in "The Safe Uses of Cortisol". If it is clear you are low, it is safe to supplement hydrocortisone up to 20mg daily, with higher dose earlier in the day. Being in a near-Addison's state is both miserable, and dangerous. However there are many MDs who will refuse to help you with this.

[HLAB35]

Going gluten free and addressing gut health further by taking something like Kefir - which seems to work better (for me) than the probiotic capsules - helps with nutrient absorption especially with rather capricious vitamins like B12 that require optimum gut health, and the many proteins that are dependent on enzymes to break them down (enzymes need optimal pH and temperatures in the gut to actually work - they taught me that in school). Having said that, external factors like stress and cold weather can hit all of us pretty hard and I'll be slowing down a bit while it's brrrr-freezing out!

[Eddie83 in reply to HLAB35]

I'll second that! I use a small cup of 12-strain kefir every day. Even though I'm well now, I'm continuing to pamper my celiac gut because I don't want to EVER go back to the hellhole I was in.

[misslissa in reply to HLAB35]

What is kefir??

[humanbean in reply to misslissa]

Some links on the subject (some people on the forum make their own) :

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kefir

users.sa.chariot.net.au/~dn...

cheeseslave.com/how-to-make...

passionatehomemaking.com/20...

traditionalcookingschool.co...

^^ All supposed to be very good for the gut.

[Eddie83 in reply to misslissa]

Fermented milk. Kind of like yogurt, but thinner.

[misslissa]

Sorry all, been away and not picked up notifications!

[HLAB35 in reply to misslissa]

Kefir's expensive bought ready made, so I recommend getting a starter kit with instructions (essential) from the internet or natural health store and buy a few Kilner-style jars too. It then only costs the price of the milk you use to make it and you can make as much or little as you like once you've made your first few batches. I've read that there are non-dairy Kefir options for those with milk allergy. It's less of a faff than you may imagine and not the preserve of the domestic goddess - Turks have been making this stuff for millennia.

[misslissa in reply to HLAB35]

I have a Turkish friend, she makes yogurt so probably knows how to make this too.