Fluctuating Thyroid - newbie!

Fluctuating Thyroid - newbie!

Hello fellow sufferers. I am new here but need some advice because I don't have an awful lot of faith in doctors anymore as they are too quick to shuffle you out of the door these days due to the heavy strains on the NHS now.

I am 53, was diagnosed with under-active thyroid around 8-10yrs ago. My dose settled on 150mcg for all that time but I found out recently that it had fluctuated and I was getting too much. I have never properly delved into the illness, I just take my tablets and get on with it; but with recent events it is now gaining my attention more and I am setting out to learn more, especially from fellow sufferers as you can't beat experience in my eyes :)

As I take Menopace I recently discovered that Soya Isoflavines can prohibit the absorption of thyroxine along with calcium. No information was given to me from my doctors when I first started my thyroxine as to when to take it etc., so it seems a case of finding out stuff for yourself

I am post menopause and was diagnosed with thyroid problems when I was peri meno. About 3 weeks ago my body crashed with the most severe symptoms of anxiety, debilitating fatigue, palpitations and irregular heartbeat which started a couple of days after I caught a cold, although I seemed to get over the cold within a couple of days and then bang, all these symptoms arrived and hung on for nearly a week. I knew a cold couldn't make me feel so ill so I trotted back to the docs and had some bloods done which confirmed about my thyroid, which I am hoping explained the awful symptoms I was experiencing. I had similar symptoms in the summer but I have a long history of depression and anxiety anyway and I just put it down to menopause and just carried on after the symptoms subsided.

Are there any other ladies out there that have experienced fluctuations with their thyroid during menopause?

I am wondering why mine has changed after all these years - could it be due to the menopause? My doc gave me a copy of my results but I don't understand the NB as regards the new range???????? Does anyone know what that means. I have also read up on a free T3 level, but can't work out why that test doesn't apply to me

Anyway, I came down with another cold a few days ago, a proper cold this time and have been feeling rotten, lumpy throat and my glands are up which normally happens with a head cold. I am obviously run down but still looking for answers. Can anyone tell me how long it will take before I might notice a difference in how I am feeling on my lower dose. I do have another doc appointment at the beginning of November so I am assuming I will be sent for another blood test?

Many thanks all xx

116 Replies

  • Hi Jefner

    Apologies,this is more of a question.

    I assume these are NHS lab results?

    This could mean NHS labs have different ranges for their T4 testing?

    There's a footnote on theses test results re new levels coming into effect from 1/04/15.

    My last test range was 12.00 - 22.00. As my result was 23 this put me over range and now my doctor wants to reduce my dose of Levo.

    Using the above ranges I would be OK!


  • Pmb, it's not to do with being NHS or not NHS. Each laboratory has it's own range, due to the machine they use to analyse the blood. The ranges here have probably changed because they've got a new machine. It's not standardised, so you need to use the range given by the lab that analysed your blood sample, I'm afraid. :)

  • I have learned something else today, never knew that, thanks so much

  • You're welcome. :)

  • good afternoon hun. Just having a mooch around the net as regards starting a magnesium supplement and trying to find the acceptable dose. Found out that there are several different types of magnesium and I am not sure which one I should be trying. Are you able to help me decide and also the dose please? naturalnews.com/046401_magn...

  • Well, I think he sums it up pretty well, there. I Don't actually have a favourite brand, I buy what's on special offer! lol A daily dose is about 350 - 400. But you're often advised to increase until you get the trots, and then cut back a bit.

  • it's not the brand I am worried about hon, it's the type of magnesium ie. whether to take one with citrate, malate, taurate, glycinate, carbonate!!!!!! which one do you have?

  • The one to definitely avoid is magnesium oxide - the body has a hard time absorbing it.

    I use magnesium citrate about an hour before bed (it makes many people a little bit sleepy). I've never tried any of the others that you mention.

  • thank you very much :). Do you take an vitamin supplements

  • I'm quite happy with the citrate. But, it's like so many other things, it's all about trial and error. Try the citrate and see how you get on with it. :)

  • was going to get a Vitamin C as you also recommended. Also a Vit B complex? What else would you recommend without me overloading lol

  • Nothing at the moment. You should only start taking one thing at a time so that if it doesn't agree with you, you'll know what it is. So, start with the Vit C for a week or so, then you can add in the magnesium.

    Do not take a B complex without getting your B12 and folate tested first. Or, you will skew the results. When you have a result for those, we can take things further. :)

  • brilliant advice thank you so much. I shall do that. Am chucking down lots of orange juice and water at the moment. Felt better yesterday as regards the cold symptoms with a tiny bit of energy but felt crap again this morning, although I did have a bad night's sleep as I have just been lolling about for a week trying to rest. I was going to purchase one of those full thyroid tests from BlueHorizon including the antibodies, so hopefully I will have the results back in time for my doc appointment on the 3rd to take them with me, BUT obviously posting them here first. In light of my thyroxine being lowered on the 14th, do you think it's the wrong time to get those bloods done?

  • Well, I think it is, but others might say that... That given the half life of T4 if 5-7 days, and you were only reduced by 25, it was reduced 10 days ago, so... most of it should be out of your system in... about 4 weeks, if my calculations are correct. So, hoping to do the test and get the results before 3rd November, in about 10 days time, seems a little over-optimistic to me, I'm afraid.

  • so how long should I leave it do you think before I get them done

  • At least four weeks, but myself, I would leave it until six weeks, as I said before.

    In the meantime, you should concentrate on your vitamins and minerals.

  • thank you and yes mum I will be taking all your advice on board lol. Just feeling helpless I suppose and impatient in wanting to get to the bottom of things so I can get right again and be of use to my elderly parents who need me

  • something I have also noticed in the last couple of weeks even before I came down with the damn cold is that when I swallow it feels like there is an obstruction around and underneath my adams apple. Whether it is in fact due to the onset of my cold as my glands have come up (but settling now), I don't know, or whether I am just being paranoid lol

  • I doubt you're being paranoid. Your thyroid could be inflammed. One of the reasons why you should know if you have Hashi's. It would explain things like that.

    The key-work here is patience. Nothing is going to happen quickly, so you need to learn to wait. :)

  • yeah I read that around 80% of thyroid sufferers have Hashi's but when I mentioned it to my doc she completely dismissed it "oh you haven't got that" pfft

  • Because she doesn't know anything about it. Insist that you want to be tested, or, do it privately. :)

  • Synergistic high strength calcium tablets, with magnesium, zinc & vitamin D3

    Nutritional Information Average per 2 tablets % EC NRV*

    Vitamin D (as D3 400 IU) 10 µg 200

    Calcium 800 mg 100

    Magnesium 300 mg 80

    Zinc 10 mg 100

    Copper 1000 µg 100

    Manganese 0.5 mg 25

    Selenium 50 µg 91

    Boron 0.6mg -

    *NRV = Nutrient Reference Value, µg = microgram

    mg = milligram, IU = International Units, †United States Pharmacopeia


    Calcium Carbonate (Carrier: Maltodextrin), Magnesium Hydroxide (Pregelatinised Starch), Crosslinked Cellulose Gum, Zinc Sulphate, Anti-Caking Agents: Stearic Acid, Silicon Dioxide & Magnesium Stearate, Bulking Agent: Maltodextrin, Vitamin D (Cholecalciferol [Carriers: Acacia, Sucrose, Corn Starch, Medium Chain Triglycerides, Antioxidant: DL-Alpha Tocopherol]), Sodium Borate, Copper Sulphate, Manganese Sulphate, Sodium Selenate

  • You can edit your posts!

    Just below your post, there is an orange [ Reply ] button, a [ Like ] button, and a [ ˅ ]. Click on the [ ˅ ] and choose Edit.

  • thank you

  • That looks better now, doesn't it. :-) :-)

  • certainly does and thank you again. So sorry to be hogging the board

    Will scroll back and edit the other one which came out the same

  • Vitamin D3 is fat soluable, so you would need to take it with your fattiest meal.

    But why did you buy a calcium supplement? You haven’t even been tested for calcium, have you? Taking calcium isn’t even recommended if you do have a deficiency. Taking vit D would probably be enough because it raises calcium levels. But you’d have to take it with vit K2.

    The amounts are all strange, anyway. There’s not enough vit D3 or enough magnesium or enough zinc to treat a deficiency, you’d have to take three tablets – if, as they say, those amounts are for two tablets – but then you’d be getting a massive dose of calcium, and you don’t even know if you need it.

    I did explain to you about these multi things. I said calcium wasn’t a good thing to take. You would have been much better off just getting the magnesium and then getting the calcium and vit D tested, because you don’t know if you need them, nor how much you need.

    Taking stuff like this is just a stab in the dark and can lead to problems. I did explain that. 

  • sorry it was the only one they had in the supermarket despite having a wide range of stuff, spotted the high calcium content when I got home (my brain isn't working at the moment). Suppose I purchased it in panic. I know I have enough calcium in my diet as I usually eat a lot of yoghurts. There are so many different types out there it's difficult to know which one to get with the right amount of magnesium in without getting too much. I am not sure which one I should be buying to be honest :( Couldn't find just a magnesium one

  • Just magnesium, nothing else, magnesium on its own.

    To be honest, the supermarket isn't the best place to get these things. A lot of people on here - myself included - get their supplements on line, from Amazon. That way you can take your time chosing. You're not in a hurry to start the magnesium, are you? I thought you were going to start with the vitamin C. Can you take that stuff back and get a refund?

  • yes I can take it back for a refund hon. Bought a slow release 500mg vit c. Never sure on buying stuff online as there is so much fake stuff around...I know this from being an ebay seller for 14yrs lol, but I will have a nose. Looking at around 300mg?

  • 350 to 400 would be better.

    There are a lot of good brands on Amazon, it's not like eBay. Brands like Solgar, and Doctor's Best. I wouldn't suggest you buy on just any old site. And it does have the advantage that you can sit comfortably at home, you don't have the stress of standing in a noisy supermarket, hot and tired... and if you have any questions, you just hop over here and ask before you buy. :)

  • Don't be fooled my Amazon hon as there are a lot of sellers that sell on both sites but I do prefer Amazon myself because of the reviews! I went at 8pm tonight and it was as quiet as a mouse, lovely :) I shall have a shufty on Amazon now

  • just been looking at the reviews on SOLGAR - COMP. MAGNES CITRATE 120 COMP and someone said to stay clear of that one because it contains Magnesium stearate and titanium dioxide

  • Yup, that doesn't sound good. Always best to read the ingredients.

  • poop, and my search goes on lol

  • Thanks Greygoose for clarifying this. Can only hope!

  • You're welcome. :)

  • yes NHS lab results

  • OK. I'm not an expert or even very clever. It looks as though you've slipped into hyperthyroidism though, that would explain your symptoms along with the relatively low TSH. Vastly more experienced people (none of the doctors, just fellow sufferers) will be along shortly to give a better explanation.

  • Welcome to the forum, Jefner.

    The NB on your results is just a lab note alerting your GP that there has been a change to the reference ranges.

    FT4 being over range and some of the symptoms you describe suggest you were overmedicated and may be more comfortable with a 25mcg dose reduction. It will take 7-8 days for the higher dose to wash out but you can speed it up by skipping doses for 2-3 days.

    For maximum absorption Levothyroxine should be taken with water on an empty stomach 1 hour before, or two hours after, food and drink, 2 hours away from other medication and supplements, and 4 hours away from calcium, iron, vitamin D and oestrogen.

    Menopausal hormone changes often disrupt previously stable thyroid levels. Ideally find a supplement without soya because it does inhibit uptake of thyroid hormone to the cells, and in the meantime take Menopace 4 hours away from Levothyroxine as it contains calcium.



    I am not a medical professional and this information is not intended to be a substitute for medical guidance from your own doctor. Please check with your personal physician before applying any of these suggestions.

  • thank you so much for your help. My dose was lowered a couple of weeks ago by 25mcg and I am now on 125mcg. I have changed the way I take my thyroxine now after reading up a little more on it. I take it as soon as I wake up with lots of water. I normally have to be up around 2hrs anyway before I can eat. As regards the Menopace, I now take it in the evening after my main meal of the day. The Menopace I take is the Plus one with the extra botanical stuff in, which includes the soya isoflavines but I have stopped taking that one now. I am back at the docs on the 3rd November so I am assuming she will test my thyroid again or is that a little too soon?

  • Hi Clutter, you are obviously a fellow sufferer and very knowledgeable as is my new friend Goosey :). Since joining I have learned a lot (which I am still trying to take in due to brain fog). I see the mention of FT3 test a lot of here and I don't know why that is never a part of my test. On speaking to goosey she also mentioned getting other tests done (which I have never heard of). I was thinking of going for a Blue Horizon home blood test, a full one that tests Includes T4, TSH, FT4,FT3, THYROGLOBULIN ANTIBODIES, THYROID PEROXIDASE ANTIBODIES..Also Ferritin, Folate, Vitamin B12 and C Reactive Protein. Basically their advanced plus 10 one. My docs did some basic bloods for me the other week, kidneys, cholesterol, the usual one they do which is when my thyroid showed up as fluctuating. When I went back to the docs a couple of weeks ago I was armed with a list of other checks I wanted done, namely certain vitamins, iron and magnesium. She refused me the magnesium and said I didn't need it (how would she know that!). My results came back as vit d ok, iron ok. Am now going to phone my docs on Monday and ask for a printout of my results so I can post them on here. Their idea of normal, and "within the range" may still be causing me problems. It's my body, I have been lugging it around for 53 years so I think I should know when something is wrong. Anyway, sorry for my ramblings. Have you ever had any of these private tests done and do you feel they are accurate, or will I be wasting money I don't have. Can't work at the moment and on benefits but mum and dad insist on helping me. I need to get the bottom of this as I look after them both, and currently can't due to my poor health

  • Jefner, did you take your Levo the day of the test? What time was the test taken? So many things can affect the results, and to get the best reading you need to have your test between 8 and 9 in the morning, before breakfast (just drink water) and leaving 24 hours between your last dose and your blood test.

    In an ideal world - and the NHS is far from ideal - your FT3 would be tested. But the NHS, in it's infinate wisdom, has decided that the FT3 test isn't necessary (besides, doctors Don't understand it!) and that it can't be done because it's too expensive. However, saying that you're over-dosed without seeing the FT3 is a bit like saying your car has too much petrol, just because you're driving rather fast, but without looking at the petrol gauge. But, how you feel is also important. So, if you felt over-dosed, then you may feel better with a reduction. Time will tell.

    But, it's not just about hormones. Have you had your vit D, vit B12, folate, iron and ferritin tested? These all need to be optimal for your body to be able to use the hormone that you're giving it. :)

    Take care.

  • I had my bloods done a few hours after I had taken my thyroxine. I hadn't eaten that morning either so all my bloods were on an empty stomach. It was around 2'ish when I had them done. My docs have never mentioned anything about not taking thyroxine before a blood test!!!!!

    Yes hon I have had several blood tests done including kidneys, cholesterol etc and then I asked for iron, vit d etc to be done and she also tested to see where I was on the meno which confirmed I am now post meno.

  • A FEW hours? Unless it was 24 hours, you could have skewed your results. Also having had them done at 2 pm would haven meant that your TSH was lower than it would have been at 8 am. So, those labs aren't really much use, and you've earnt yourself a reduction in dose! lol

    No, your doctor won't have told you about not taking your levo because he doesn't know how it affects the dose.

  • so are you saying that each time I have a blood test I should ensure that it is around 24hrs since I had any thyroxine?

  • Yes, that's what I'm saying.

  • so when I go for my next appointment on the 3rd Nov around lunchtime to see the doc, is she going to say that 3weeks isn't long enough on my lower dose to re-check my levels?

  • Well, I Don't know what she's going to say, but normally tests are done six weeks after an increase or a decrease because that's the time it takes to take full effect. So, much better not to test after only three weeks, because it won't give a true reading, and you might find yourself with a change in dose that you Don't need.

  • I have always just bumbled down to the hospital once a year, generally in the afternoons, to have my annual test and all these years nothing has come back to the docs in being out of sync

  • Well, look at it another way, perhaps if you'd had them done the correct way, there would have been something out of sync and you would have got an increase in dose.

    TSH varies during the day, being highest early morning, and gets lower as the day goes on.

    As doctors only tend to look at the TSH, if you feel you need more Levo, you want it to be as high as possible.

    TSH also lowers after you've eaten, so that's why no breakfast (just water).

    For a few hours after you've taken your dose, the levels in your blood will spike, so what you will be measuring is the dose you've just taken - not what it is normally - so TSH will be lower, and T4 higher. That is not a true reading.

  • don't need more though do I as I think all the symptoms I had showed I was having too much?

  • Doesn't matter what you need, you still will do better with a true reading. How can you possibly adjust your dose if your results are always skewed? And Don't let her take your blood at lunchtime, either, that's much too late.

    As to your results, they just show a suppressed TSH - which is irrelevant - and an over-range FT4. BUT they Don't tell you if you are converting correctly. Even with a suppressed TSH and an over-range FT4, you could still ave low FT3 if you're not converting properly. And if you lower your dose of T4, the FT4 will come down, but so will the FT3, which will make you feel worse.

    Doesn't sound to me as if you have any symptoms of being over-dosed. Being run-down and catching lots of colds, could Mean you have low T3, or you have nutritional deficiencies. if you have nutritional deficiencies, you probably won't be able to convert very well.

    So, did she test the iron, vit D, etc? Have you got the results? I Don't suppose your doctor will be able to interpret them because they learn nothing about nutrition in med school. Are you taking any suppléments?

  • why the hell don't these doctors know all this and best times as regards blood tests?

  • just double checked on when I started my lower dose and it was only the 14th. So, if, during the next few weeks I am still experiencing all those nasty symptoms which seem to have pushed me to over- active at the moment, am I supposed to just put up with them or go back to docs?

  • 1) Doctors only do about half a day on the endocrine system during their 7+ years in med school. So, a GP, who hasn't specialised in thyroid will know next to nothing about it.

    2) Yes, there's not much you can do about it until the change in dose takes effect. There's not much your doctor can do either, you just have to wait and see, I'm afraid.

    What exactly are the symptoms that you interpret as 'over-dosed'?

  • I started what felt like a head cold at the beginning of the month which only seemed to last a couple of days and then BANG I was hit with severe debilitating fatigue, anxiety, palpitations, confusion, brain fog, depression and nausea that I couldn't seem to shake off. I knew something was wrong as colds have never left me feeling like that, and it had barely been a cold tbh. I am wondering now if I can get another test done in light of what you have informed me regarding times of day etc., or whether she is going to come back and say I should be talking to people on the net and it won't make any difference on the test

  • That sounds more like hypo symptoms, to me.

    There is no point in testing now, just 9 days after changing your dose, because you won't get any sort of coherent result.

    Just be patient and next time, do it the way I said. I'm afraid that being hypo is all about being patient. If we try to rush things, we just make things worse. If you test now, you're only going to confuse your doctor and goodness knows what she might do! :)

  • I am also just getting over what I call a proper cold atm, don't know whether it's the same one that came back with a vengeance or a new one. Am taking Menopace, Fish Oil and Omega 3 supplements and also the odd slurp of Metatone Tonic at the moment

  • So, basically, you're just taking two multivits that Don't contain enough of anything to deal with a real deficiency, and do contain iodine and soy.

    Soy, nobody needs in any shape or form - unless it's small amounts of fermented soy - which is a condiment, and eaten for enjoyment, not for it's 'health values'.

    Iodine, you're already getting quite a bit of iodine in your Levo, not sure you want anymore. Too much iodine is as bad as too little.

    You would be far better off getting your vits and mins tested, and then supplementing the deficiencies with decent-sized doses, and balancing them from there. Multivits are, basically, a waste of time and money, and only intended for healthy people.

    And if you keep getting infections, perhaps you should really be taking some hefty doses of vit C.

    Have your antibodies been tested ? TPOab and TgAB? It's really important to get them tested, because although your doctor won't know anything about them, it's does explain certain things. :)

  • I had my vitamin D, iron and stuff tested last week and everything came back OK. A lot of people talk about taking a magnesium supplement and I asked the doc to check that but she didn't. Basically Menopace is a vitamin supplement

    Never heard of those antibody tests. What would they explain?

  • Sorry, missed this post!

    So, you must never, ever just take your doctor's word for things being 'ok'. To be honest, i doubt she know if they are or not. You must get a print out of all your results so that you can see exactly what the results were - that's the first step to getting well! So, ask her for the figures! OK is just an opinion, not a diagnosis.

    No, she wouldn't have done the magnesium test because it's not very good, but costs a lot. Most people are deficient in magnesium because the soil is depeleted. Being hypo would make you even more deficient. So, people just tend to take a dose daily - especially if they're constipated!

    The antibodies I mentioned would tell you if you had the autoimmune version of hypo, called Hashimoto's Disease. When you have that, the immune system falsely believes that the thyroid glan is enemy, and sends antibodies to destroy it. Well, that's the expergated version, anyway. lol

    About 90% of people who are hypo have Hashi's (as we call it). In order to stop - or reduce - the antibody attacks, it's good to have a supressed TSH. You have that, so that's good. But best to get the test so that you know. If you can.

  • I mentioned Hashimoto's to her and she completely dismissed it

  • She would, she doesn't know what it is. Doesn't know the importance of antibodies, and that the antibodies themselves can cause symptoms even before the thyroid levels decline.

    But even if she'd tested them, she couldn't have known what to do about them, so she would have had to admit her ignorance. And they Don't like doing that! lol

  • don't mean to be rude, but as I am new here are you in the medical profession yourself or a fellow sufferer|?

  • God no! Glad you asked that question. lol I am in no way a medical professional. I'm just a long-suffering patient, like yourself, and these ramblings are just the fruit of my expériences - both good and bad!

  • i much prefer to deal with experience than doctors. Would love to know your story hon. Have you had problems with your docs not understanding and stuff. Have you been able to tell them what the score is instead of the other way around? Have you been able to insist on certain tests with your docs?

  • Oh, my story is long and boring! lol I have reason to believe that I have been hypo since I was a small child, but no doctor ever thought about thyroid. They just told me I was lazy, greedy and stupid!

    I was finally diagnosed with Hashi's by accident when I was 55, because my then doctor had a thing about fat women - he hated them! After that, I saw a series of doctors/endos each one more useless than the last. They all made me worse rather than better!

    With the result that now, at 70, I'm self-treating and hope to never see another doctor as long as I live! I discovered the hard way that Levo did not suit me - not only can I not convert it, but I can't even tolerate it. NDT made me a thousand times worse! I'm now much better on T3 only, but still need time to heal.

    I also had a bunch of nutritional deficiencies that doctors ignored. I nearly died in 2013, and that told me it was time to do something about my deficiencies. And that's why I now insist that it's not just about hormones - although they are very important too - you need to be correctly nourished, and you can't always acheive that just by eating - nor by taking multi-vits! lol

  • wow what a lady you are :) At the end of the day it is always about self help. My doc doesn't like it when I go in forearmed with information, they seem to think that they are the only ones supposed to know anything and we patients don't have a right to. They certainly don't like patients going onto the internet finding out stuff; just because they spent a few years learning about it with letters after their name they all seem to think they are privileged in some way. Plus you get shuffled in and out to the docs so quickly these days because of the strains to the NHS with so many people coming into the country. I took a list of stuff with me last time that I wanted to discuss and she took the list from me and just went no, no, no, down the list and before I knew it the appointment was over. I get really fed up as well of docs assuming all my problems are mental just because it's on my record. They auto home in on that without thinking it could be anything else and that really really pisses me off!!! You really are a lovely and very helpful and informative lady, hope you don't mind me rambling on with you so much but your knowledge has drawn me to you

  • Thank you, Jefner. I only hope I can be of help. And you expess my thoughts about doctors exactly! I couldn't have put it better myself!!! :)

  • must admit with this cold, as with others, the glands in my neck are up and for the last couple of weeks, when swallowing it feels like there is some sort of restriction there. Was talking to a friend of mine who said to get my parathyroid checked; mentioned that to my doc and she said it's quite rare and out of the tests they do, rarely anyone comes back positive! I mean why can't that rarity be for for heaven's sake. She is quite a good doc in general and has had many years experience in treating thyroid cases but it's the usual story, they always miss something

  • She doesn't sound very good to me, I'm afraid! I would have torn her to shreds long ago! lol They can have many, many years of experience, but if they aren't prepared to learn and to think outside the box, then they are never going to be 'good' doctors, they are just going to be technicians. If all they do is look at a computer screen, anybody can do that, Don't need all those years of study. What they need to do is stop thinking that their patients are lying idiots, start listening to their patients and keep an open mind. But not many of them are capable of that.

  • have to agree with you there. How the hell can I insist on stuff though if she won't budge

  • as a very knowledgeable lady in her later years, what would you recommend I take in the way of supplements. Looking at the list of ingredients on the menopace, I don't think there is enough of some things


  • The clue has got to be in there somewhere! lol But you've got to look for it.

    Ah, here it is! "a nutritional safeguard". In other words, it is meant to stop your levels of nutrients going too low. But, if your levels are already too low, it's not going to bring them up.

    Someone on here the other day said something really clever, that taking a multivit when you have nutritional deficiencies, is like trying to fill a bucket with a hole in it - you keep pouring it in, but the bucket is never full!

    And, quite apart from that, I think they've committed a few nutritional no-nos there.

    a) It contains folic acid. Folic acid is not well absorbed; and can be bad for some people.

    b) It doesn't say what form of B12 they use. If it's cyanocobalamin, you aren't even going to be able to absorb it.

    c) It contains vit D3 but no vit K2. If you are taking vit D3, you need vit K2 to make sure that the raised calcium levels go into the bones and not the tissues.

    d) it says it's 'designed to be taken with a calcium supplement', well, no, calcium suppléments really aren't recommended. Just taking the vit D3 is going to raise calcium levels, you Don't want more on top.

    and e) it contains soy and iodine, which you really should't be taking.

    You're right, there's not enough of anything, and, basically, it's designed for healthy people, not sick people with nutritional deficiencies.

    So, what would I recommend you take? Well, vit C and magnesium for starters. But then, get tested for the rest. Some things you just must not take too much of, so you need to know if you need to take it. And, if you do need it, how much. You can't just guess at these things.

    And I agree, unfortunately you can't force your doctor to do anything she doesn't want to. So, the solution could be to see another doctor. Or, get private tests. Just think, the money you save by not taking these useless multivits could be spent more usefully doing private tests. :)

  • I think I am in total agreement with you hon. If I see another doctor at the surgery they will just see what bloods I have had done and poo poo the idea of any more. How do I get passed that attitude which I am sure I shall meet? Prefer the idea of private tests; not sure who I am supposed to approach on that front though???? There is the cost to consider as I am not able to work at the moment and am on benefits but I am sure my parents would jump at the chance of helping me out there, because they keep trying to give me money anyway and I won't accept it cus I am a stubborn old gal :)

  • As I said before, post a new question about private tests, and someone will tell you. I can't help you with that, because I Don't live in the UK. I live in France, and things are different here :)

  • I did that hon after you suggested it. Maybe living in France is the answer? lol

  • God no! Doctors here are just as ignorant. The majority have no idea what T3 is, and NDT is illegal! The only good point is, I've never had any problem getting my FT3 tested. They tend to completely ignore it, but the do test it. :)

  • so if I mention T3 to my doc then, is she gonna look at me gone out

  • No knowing how she's going to react. There are a hundred excuses she could use to cover her ignorance/refuse to test it. Or, she might surprise you and put it on the form, but then the lab will probably refuse to test it because it's too expensive. You'll just have to try it and see what reaction you get.

  • looking at one of these home blood test thingies as shown on the website by BlueHorizon. What do you think? If anything shows up then I go to my next appointment armed with some info? homebloodtests.co.uk/


    Also Ferritin, Folate, Vitamin B12 and C Reactive Protein

  • That sounds very good. Just what you need.

    So, yes, then you can go back and show her that now you know what you're talking about, and you won't be fobbed off any more. That might change her attitude a bit.

    If your nutrients come back low, she will probably just dismiss them. So, that's when you start Learning how to supplement yourself. :)

  • look what I found on the thyroid website thyroiduk.org.uk/tuk/testin...

  • damn, reading up on it about the blood test I still have to go via the GP

  • Yes, but if you're paying for it, she'll have no real reason to object. :)

  • have also been experiencing the irregular heartbeat as well. Just checked on the NHS website and the symptoms I have mentioned are also for over active. I am so confused now and getting myself into a state. I look after my elderly parents too but because I am ill at the moment I can't and they are having to fend for themselves. I must admit I felt nearly 100% last week, after only 3 doses on my lower dosage and then bang again, was hit with this damn cold so I can't work out what the real problem is at the moment. Doesn't help either because of all the damn meno symptoms that I am still getting even though I am now officially in post meno. Plus I have a long history of anxiety and depression problems anyway which haven't troubled me that much in the last 10yrs but they are now

  • Yes, it's true that a lot of symptoms can be either hypo or hyper. And sometimes, you can have both at the same time. Especially if your antibodies are high.

    But please Don't get into a state. I know that's easier said than done, but it's not going to help. The best way to ride the symptoms is to stay calm.

    I'm so sorry that you have to look after other people when you're ill. But, when you're hypo, colds can hit you pretty badly! And a good dose of vit C would probably help. In any case, it can't do any harm.

    It could very well have been that your dose was slightly high, but that your doctor reduced it by too much. But, then again, the cold will have brought you down and that would start symptoms off again, too.

    And, yes, it is difficult to work out what symptoms are what when there's several things going on at once.

    But are you sure that your symptoms are menopausal? They could also be hypo symptoms. There are over 300 symptoms of hypo, and doctors Don't know very many of them. Depression and anxiety are also hypo symptoms, so you could have been hypo for longer than you think.

    I think it's really, really important for you to get your nutrients tested. So, when you go to the doctor on 3rd, ask her to test :

    vit D

    vit B12




    and the antibodies TPOab and TgAB

    No point in having thyroid hormones tested yet, but the above will give us a better idea of why you're feeling so rough.

    In the meantime, keep yourself warm, get plenty of rest and fluids, and eat. You sound very run-down and you need good food. OK? :)

    Take care. x

  • this is the problem, I don't know whether my symptoms are down to meno, thyroid or just run down with a cold. I did have a bit of a crash in June with very very severe depression which I am now in therapy with but with thyroid problems, it could have been something to do with that I really don't know anymore. Am trying to look after myself, not a big fruit eater but getting some down me now plus orange juice, lots of water and more veg. Also topping up my magnesium with a small handful of nuts and seeds every day. The rest is doing my head in because I am now bored shitless with it lol. I had my vit d checked and iron and everything came back normal. Not sure what other tests she put down on the sheet

  • Yes, but 'normal' is a programme on a washing machine, it has nothing to do with your health. You need a print-out of the numbers. A doctor will say everything is perfect if it's just in range. But it's not about being just in-range. It's where in the range if falls that is important. If your iron is at 10, and the range is 9-99 (just an example) they will say your iron is perfect. It isn't. With iron/ferritin it needs to be at lieast in the middle of the range.

    When you are hypo, you more than likely have low stomach acid - that's one of the major symptoms - and that will mean that you cannot absorb the nutrients from food. It doesn't matter what you eat, if you can't digest it, it's useless - well, it just fills you up. More often than not hypos have low B12, low magnesium, low vit D3 etc etc etc, when they absolutely need them to be optimal - I cannot stress that enough. Moreover, I will keep coming back to bash you over the head with it! lol

    Low B12 can cause terrible depression. And also a miriad of other terrible symptoms. A level of less than 500 can cause irrepairable neurological damage.

    When my B12 was 350, I was losing the use of my right arm. The doctor said my level was 'perfect', and that B12 wasn't important anyway. But I started supplementing myself, and gradually got the use of my right arm back. I dread to think where I would be now if I'd listened to that doctor. Well, no doubt about it, if I'd listened to any of them, I'd be dead by now.

  • don't understand what the T3 is anyway despite reading up on it, my brain won't absorb stuff properly. How come some people have it tested and others don't. Is it something I should mention to my docs?

  • T3 is the active thyroid hormone that is needed by every single cell in your body. So, there has to be enough of it to go round.

    Your thyroid gland only produces a tiny amount of T3. It mainly produces T4 (the levo you take is synthetic T4). The T4 is supposed to be converted into T3 as and when the body needs it. But, not everybody can convert T4 to T3, so the T3 level remains low.

    A lot of people have to have their FT3 tested privately because the NHS won't usually do it because it's too expensive. (They only do it sometimes when TSH is suppressed.)

    You can mention it to your doc if you like, but I Don't suppose he/the lab will be willing to test it, I'm afraid.

  • I wouldn't even know who to approach to have that done

  • What? Have it done privately? Post a new question and someone will tell you how it's done. :)

  • so let me get this right, the figures on the right hand side of the paper in brackets are the normal ranges that I should fall into?

  • The figures on the right hand side, in brackets, are the ranges, yes. But it's not good enough to just 'fall into' them. They need to be in the right place.

    For the TSH; the right place is around one or lower.

    For the FT4 and the FT3, the right place is up near the top of the range, but FT3 slightly higher than the FT4.

  • I actually only found out the other day as well that with thyroid problems your body temperature is a little lower than everyone else. Mine hovvers anywhere between the mid 35's and mid 36's most of the time

  • Well, then, that would suggest that you weren't over-dosed, wouldn't it?

  • I have absolutely no idea anymore goosey, I am confused.com. don't peeps with over active also have lower body temp?

  • No, they Don't usually. That's a very hypo thing.

  • then that's deffo me then because I have always been hypo

    Bit concerned now after my recent tests whether dropping that 25mcg is gonna make a dire difference to me

  • Probably not a dire difference. And, tell yourself that it's only temporary, anyway.

  • Look up because of menopause your oestrogen levels , as this will play up you thyroid also cortisol and adrenals check it out for yourself ,but selenium with vitamin e taken last thing at night so as it is at least 4 hours away from medicine and any other vitamin's and minerals, all I do is research so check it out Paula.

  • sorry to but in ....Greygoose and Jefner

    by the way that is great advice you are getting Jefner and ...free , from someone

    who knows all about this Thyroid Gland and all that it entails.

    I was diagnosed with Graves Disease 8 weeks ago .... and had very many

    symptoms ... too long a list to print here..

    Anxiety and depression were most definitely two of the symptoms

    as well as all of the ones that you have described you've had ...

    They were , for sure , symptoms of HYPERTHYROIDISM ...

    I'm also very new here and have learned so much in two months...

    you will learn to speak up for yourself at doctors appointments

    take good advice from Greygoose...

    and the best of Luck😎

  • thank you Madge, she is a very informative lady and I must admit you can't beat experience. Do you have problems with your doctor's taking advice and suggestions from you?

  • Errrrmmmm.... Let me See......l YES !!!!!!!

  • I must admit I am quite a clutz with words at my docs. I always come across in the wrong way, either I am paranoid that I have things when I haven't or I shouldn't be nosing around on the net. Not sure how to get what I want using the right words

  • was diagnosed almost 2 months now ....

    wanted to Die I was soooo bad ... I'll !!

    long story .... all the classic stmptoms and I'm Not a Doctor Pest

    anyway he told me he thought I was fine ! I started to cry which he's Never seen

    and he got a bit more interested ... surprisingly,

    then took full panel of bloods .. telling me I was fine and they would be normal ...he was sure there was nothing wrong with me , just a bit anxious !!!!!!!!!!!🔫

    Came back for results and he said Oh ! this is most surprising... You have

    HYPERTHYROID disease .. probably Graves Disease .

    Went to see Endoctrinologist..l he put me on CARBIMAZOLE to calm down or slowly

    stop the Thyroid from working because of the antibodies I have ( Graves )

    8 weeks later I am almost back to normal ..except for joint and muscle pain.

    Now my difficult job is to convince them that I DO NOT WANT THEM TO DESTROY

    MY THYROID GLAND ... I want to keep it intact ...lt is my immune system that's

    gone haywire and has started to attack my thyroid .. so I'm trying, with the help of those fellow sufferers on here to get to know what I need to help nourish my

    immune system if possible.. so that it ' normalises ' and leaves my body in peace.

    I hope you understand all that ... looks like I've written a book !


    ....HE/SHE won't lose any sleep if they're wrong ... and you're suffering !


    and I hope you begin to feel like your normal self very very soon, sounds like you need some TLC and some hot chicken soup

    have some flowers meantime 🌼🌻💐🌹

  • sick to death of chicken soup lol. Feeling better now finally as I think the worst of my cold is over but I have just been reading that An underactive thyroid often occurs when the immune system, which usually fights infection, attacks the thyroid gland. Wondering whether it's my thyroid that has given me 2 colds so far this month

  • Greygoose ,

    just for your amusement .... re Doctors...and their knowledge of THYROID GLAND

    I went to GP yesterday, as I asked for blood test to take the figures to Endo in a few days. He said how are you feeling ? told him much better ... but not perfect yet as I still have pain in joints and muscles...and slightly anxious still.

    he said ..... Oh, you're fine we ll get the CARBIMAZOLE to work and if you go up again..l we can get you RAI

    I said I don't want my thyroid destroyed Dr. !!

    in fact I can't believe all my symptoms have been missed for years......... !!!

    he replied that bloods two years ago showed I was Normal

    and I reminded him that in the UK normal is very high compared to say USA

    .. he said ... exactly ! you live in the UK !!! and you MUST see my point of view

    I tested you two years ago .... and you were NORMAL !

    .. Heyho ! 🔫🔫😡

  • Dumbo! lol

  • sorry Jefner...

    be good to yourself... eat fresh food as much as you can ... and look up supplements to take for your immune system..

    and come back on here and talk to those with all the experience .. ( not me )

    but loads of others who have been where you are .. if they give you advice ... Google it ... to learn even more and give your results on here too... they will interpret them for you... as I'm am rubbish at that !

  • I have spent several days here reading all about thyroid and the numerous problems it can cause and I am feeling stupid in listening to my GP for all these years. I now know that I should have taken the time to read up on it when I was first diagnosed about 10yrs ago. I am not normally stupid in this way as I have never really trusted any GP from past experience. Am 53 and just because I have a long history of anxiety/depression problems which started when I was very young, I do tire of GP's not looking outside of the box and just auto homing in on those problems and attaching them to anything I go and see them about. Unfortunately I have gone through one thing after the other during my life making it very difficult to narrow it down to one particular problem to try and solve.

    I remember having panic attacks when I was a child because my sister used to vomit a lot and I developed a really bad phobia from then on. I then had a bad relationship when I was 17 and severe panic attacks/depression and agoraphobia started which I have constantly battled with. The symptoms were at their worst during my 20's-30's. I lived with awful anxiety symptoms 24hrs a day for many many years. My GP when I was around 17 left me on Ativan for 13yrs, to which I managed to wean myself off very slowly over the space of a year and the years after that I just coped as best I could, learning relaxation techniques and stuff but still living with the anxiety symptoms every hour of every day

    After a bump in the car (not my fault) about 15yrs ago I saw a counsellor who recommended I try Seroxat which I didn't want to try because of the Ativan episode. As the symptoms started interferring with a managerial job I was in at the time I gave in and tried them. Around 4 weeks later I woke up one morning with no anxiety symptoms; they were gone; suppressed by the Seroxat and after around 30yrs of suffering 24hrs a day the feeling of "normal" was so overwhelming and I started to get my life back in being able to do things and go places without having a panic attack. I felt that good that when I got call centres phone my home, instead of telling them to bugger off I found myself merrily chatting with them because I just felt so well. Very difficult to explain the feeling of normal, when I hadn't experienced it in so many years. A lot of people slated Seroxat but it worked for me and I am still on it

    Then probably about a year later I started to go downhill when I was diagnosed with under active thyroid. Took my meds, regular blood tests to monitor levels, no advice or explanations from GP about anything to do with thyroid and I bumbled along with readings coming out as "normal", took around a year before I could say I felt better. Never felt 100% but then again I have never felt 100% for most of my life.

    Then when I thought my thyroid was sorted...BANG with peri menopause symptoms which could have spanned around 8-10yrs before I finally reached menopause (am now post) ....so it's been one thing after the other for most of my life with very little "feeling well" time inbetween.

    Had a serious bodily crash in June with severe depression, fatigue and all the other stuff including suicidal thoughts, and haven't felt well since. Managed to get into therapy fairly quickly because of it. I look after my elderly parents and then come home to looking after two elderly pets. What with the stress of that and falling ebay sales I just assumed everything came to a head because I couldn't cope.

    NOW after joining this group and learning more, I am just wondering whether a lot of what I have been going through in the last 10-15yrs is not just meno symptoms but also a lot to do with my thyroid. As I said in previous posts and from what Goosey has informed me, I have been doing everything wrong as regards when I have been taking my thyroxine and also when I had my bloods checked, so I may not have been getting accurate readings. It also sounds very much like my GP has failed me along with so many others out there in not properly testing for stuff like T3, antibodies etc.

    Have been scouring the posts and came across David Clark's videos which I have been watching with great interest. Typically he also says GP's seem to just go by lab results and not look any further than that, especially regarding Hashimoto's which can be hidden within lab results saying normal.

    I am busy making notes and a list at the moment for my next doc appointment on the 3rd November on things I want to ask her to test and discuss with her as regards my thyroid in general, because I am now of the opinion that a lot of my problems may be down to my thyroid after all

  • Hi jefner

    I started with symptoms of hyperthyroidism (overactive thyroid) in 2004 the docs waited six wks before re-testing my blood they said it was within normal range,,since then I have had the symptoms on and off but managed to cope with them,,then I became really I'll and was diagnosed with m-e fibromialgia...I just had to get on with it it did impact really badly on my life I cud no longer excersise anymore so I got on with it..then when I was 51 I started going threw the menu pause not to bad just had the flush felt a little hot slight raised heartbeat but not to bad...then about six months after the menu pause diagnosis all hell broke loose I started with server sweats that would not stop palpitations sever fast heartbeat shaking tremors total utter fatique I thought her we go again my thiyroids gone overactive and it had but again doc waited another six weeks for re-testing that was normal but I'm still having really bad symptoms,,I I'm now wondering could their be some connection with the menopause that's hormonal all my test have come bk normal but I feel my docs missing somthing''why don't they check to see if women who are going through the menopause are more likely to have bad thyroid symptoms also doesn't the menopause av something to do with the pituitary gland¡¡¡¡ I'm still having difficulty sleeping hence the ungodly hour of this post

    I'm sure I read on a thyroid web site that hormones are all conected--until docs look at symptoms and not so much on blood tests I feel I am not going to get much help from them I hope you fair better than me with your doc and you get to understand your results,,,I have never been told my result other than their normal,,,so thanks to this fantastic site I got the courage to ask for a printout I will post them soon

    Good luck jefner

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