Results advice please after 3 months NDT (Thai Thiroyd)

Hi folks

Diagnosed in April 2013 with Hashimoto's + load of hypo symptoms (cold feet, lethargy, sudden 2.5 stone weight gain, swollen face, outer eyebrows disappeared).

Finally decided in May to trial NDT, as suggested by private functional meds doctor.

First, for comparison, March blood results before NDT:

TSH 1.06 (0.3 - 4.2)

FT4 - 11.9 pmol/L (9 - 23)

FT3 - 3.7 pmol/L (2.5 - 5.7)

TPO - 329 u/mL (0 - 75)

No ferritin or VitD done

Vit B12 640 (160-800)

Folate 14.9 (no range given)

Now, results August 19th after three months on Thai Thiroyd, raising slowly as per STTM advice to get to 2.5 grains taken in one go before bed:

*note: ranges are different*

TSH 0.03 (0.34 - 5.6)

FT4 - 10 pmol/L (7.5 - 21.1)

FT3 - 4.7 pmol/L (3.8 - 6.8)

Ferritin 49 (11 - 336)

B12 472 (180 - 914)

Vita D 74 (>75 optimal)

TPO - not done

After three months, outer third of eyebrows have regrown, feet never cold, facial swelling seems to be reduced, increased energy.

Tried going up to 2.5 grains for three days but got waves of heart flutters so cut back to 2 grains, which seems to be my sweet spot.

Love to hear your views on my numbers. I thought FT3 and FT4 would have been higher after three months on NDT.

Will they stay here or if I keep on the same dose of two grains? Will they rise as body gets consistent level of hormone or do I have to raise to get any increase in levels of FT3 and FT4?

Thanks all for having a look

Maxi xx

18 Replies

  • There are others here who are more knowledgeable than I but it looks to me as if your problem is low ferritin, not thyroid. Apart from suppressing your TSH the NDT has done little for your figures. But your ferritin is way too low. And your B12 is pretty low too.

    It think it questionable whether you needed thyroid supplementation. Yes your Ts were a bit low, but your TSH was pretty normal, so your body wasn't crying out for more, and you may just have a low metabolism, possibly as a result of the low iron/B12. Given that the jury is out on low TSH, I personally would taper off the NDT and concentrate on getting your iron up.

    Have you been tested for PA?

  • Hmmmm. You may well be right. It will be interesting to hear the views of others too. Will bump up iron supplementation and resume taking my B12. It went all the way up to 1500+ when I took methylcobalamin sublingually last year so I've been taking it infrequently.

    Not tested for PA. Have an NHS endo appointment soon so maybe this is a path to explore.


  • One more query Ruthi - if I taper will my normal thyroid function slowly resume? And any thoughts on the question about whether sticking to the current two grains eventually boosts FT4 and FT3. Or does it just stay pretty much the same on this dose?

    I am growing attached to my new brows and love sweating for the first time ever at Bodypump.

  • Should point out that TSH has been up to 5.46 in the couple of years since Hashi's diagnosis. Initial supplementation with Nutri-Thyroid products + many vitamins and iron gradually got TSH down to 2.4. and then a little over 1. I stopped taking the Nutri-Thyroid pills after six months as the theory was that they were skewing my results when I really needed something stronger. Thus the NDT trial but only after nearly two years of building up mineral and vitamin reserves. Iron seems ridiculously hard to get up.

  • Hello Maxi, you split your dose or it' s a single morning dose...?

  • Taken in a single dose before bed. I take bio-identical HRT (Estrogel transdermal - brilliant stuff) and various supplements so find taking it two hours after eating works for me. It also puts an end to any temptation to snack beforehand.

  • Your D3 is borderline sufficient. The optimal range is 75- 200 .As its summer with more sun it seems likely that you need to supplement but as D3 releases calcium you should take K2 with D3 which sends the calcium to the bones.

  • Thanks Treepie. I've been supplementing for the past year to get up from 29, where it was about a year ago when the endo declared it (harrumph) "normal". Using spray under tongue (DLux 3000) so will keep that up.

    Taken orally, does D3 still release calcium enough to warrant K2 supplementation?

  • I think so.if you take a multivitamin there may be K2 in it .My wife has drops that has both D3 and K2.brand is Thorne.

  • Thanks - will check it out.

  • Maxi, You've had improvement in symptoms since taking NDT so I think that's proof enough that you needed some replacement. If you feel well on 2 grains there's no need to increase further but if you are still symptomatic increase by 1/4 grain increments or you will overshoot your sweet spot.

    FT3 4.7 is a good level and may be optimal for you. Go by how you feel rather than chase a FT3 target. I'm well with FT3 >4.5 but don't feel better for it being higher. Over range caused hairloss. FT3 will rise if you increase dose but FT4 may stay the same, or may even drop, as you don't need high T4 stored for conversion when you are getting T3 direct from NDT.

    If FT3 drops on 2 grains it is likely that thyroid function has deteriorated and a dose increase to compensate will be required if you are symptomatic.

    Ferritin is optimal halfway through range. Low ferritin can make it difficult to tolerate thyroid dose increases. Supplement iron with 500mg-1,000mg vitamin C to aid absorption and minimise constipation.

    If you are pursuing a pernicious anaemia diagnosis hold off supplementing B12 until after the tests. B12 is always high when supplementing so there's little point in testing then. B12 474 is unlikely to be deficient but neuropathy can be experienced <500. PA Society say 1,000 is optimal. Supplement 1,000mcg daily and take a B Complex to keep the other B vits balanced. Folate 14.9 was good.

    VitD 74 is almost replete. Supplement 2,500iu D3 October-Apr when ultraviolet light is too low to stimulate natural vitD.

  • Thank you Clutter. Read that gem of a Thyrophoenix article often when I was getting impatient with the slow-rise-wait regime.

    Blasted iron so hard to raise. Will work on it.

  • Maxi, have a look at the Cambodian Iron Fish in this link

  • Wow. Fascinating.

    Big pharma lobbyists have no doubt been at work suppressing news of this simple solution to what seems a universal problem. Worth reading more about.

  • Maxi, I think it's more about economic and other access to supplements. The iron fish could be useful to people who don't tolerate iron supplements too.

    There's another project in India which supplies women in some communities with B12 steeped bindi spots to wear 8 hours a day to improve B12 deficiency due to dietary insufficiency.

  • Brilliant.

    Wrote my response to you before I waded into the write-ups about the Lucky Iron Fish Project. It's helping so many people and NGOs are adopting it for wider use. Wonderful.

  • Well, nutri thyroid is NDT by another name, as far as I can tell. Lots of folk have questioned this 'hormone free' thing, since there is no suggestion that they deliberately remove the T hormones.

    But what we have is that you've almost certainly increased your intake of T3 and T4, and so your pituitary isn't calling for thyroid production any more. Eyebrows and warm feet are nice, I agree, but if you aren't dealing with the underlying problems they may come at quite a high price. Recent research suggests that TSH has other effects than just regulating thyroid hormones, so deliberately suppressing production with little to show for it is a bit concerning.

    Because its been a relatively short time I think your TSH should come back up. I take NDT because I have no choice, and my TSH is now, after fifteen years, chronically suppressed. But without it I would have long since given up and topped myself, so no real alternative!

    There is a suggestion that taking D3 in isolation, even with K2, may upset copper regulation. Take good quality CLO rather than synthetic D3.

    I would also think that you are almost certainly magnesium deficient (because your D and iron are both low). Serum Mg testing is meaningless, and the active Mg test is difficult to get done. But its pretty harmless stuff so you should just take Mg, together with wholefood vitamin C and B6. Your D3 should come up on its own with that regime. I take Magnesium glycinate because Mag oil, and sulphate stop me sleeping.

    Join the Magnesium Advocacy Group on FB for the latest information on Mg. Read Carolyn Dean's book and watch her Youtube talks

    If you aren't already gluten free then now is the time. And cut out the sugar and caffeine if they are still in your life!

    Also, don't take my word for anything - read up on it for yourself first !!!

  • Much to consider. Thanks Ruthi.

    Any tricks on getting ferritin up quickly? Will resume taking two tabs of ferrous fumarate with Vitamin C and look at K2 too.

    I've read the latest thinking about Nutri-Thyroid having actual hormone content and think that's true. My blood test numbers improved over the six months I was taking the usual suite of three Nutri products favoured by functional medicine practitioners. As you no doubt know, the Nutri Thyro Complex is like a super-charged multi-vitamin with iodine and selenium 3:1. My hospital endo said my thyroid function had improved thanks to the iodine.

    Going gluten-free more than a year ago has also helped boost energy levels and reduced Hashi's antibodies.

    I'd been hoping that my go-to snack of no-salt pumpkin seeds in their shells was giving me all the magnesium I needed but will explore supplementing.

    Sugar isn't even in the house - love the plant-based substitutes - but I love my morning coffee. Only have one or two cups and only in the morning but my body, whatever it's up to, is going to have to adjust to it.

    Some things are too lovely to forego.

    Huge thanks for your input.


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