Possible adrenal issues?

Hi, hope all who see this have had a nice Christmas.

I have been suspected of having Hashimoto's. Here are my recent blood test results for all who haven't seen:

January 2013

TSH: 0.69 (0.27-4.2)

Anti-TPO antibodies: 84,000 (<34)

May 2013

TSH: 22 (0.27-4.2)

FT4: 10.9 (12-22) - Thyroxine was started at 75mcg per day.

August 2013

TSH: 4 (0.27-4.2)

FT4: Not tested - Thyroxine increased to 125mcg

Ferritin: 15ug/L (30-400) - Iron supplements were started at 210mg.

November 2013

TSH: 4.3 (0.27-4.2)

FT4: 15.3 (12-22) - Thyroxine increased to 150mcg.

FT3: 5.5 (3.1-6.8)

December 2013

TSH: 4.6 (0.27-4.2)

FT4: 15.6 (12-22)

Anti-TPO antibodies: 41,000 (<34)

Ferritin: 21 (30-400)

Vitamin D: 43.6 (<75) - Started Vitamin D supplements.

Folate: 4.1 (4.6-18.7)

I didn't get on very well with the Ferrous Fumerate I was prescribed to help with the iron intake, so I bought some other supplements which worked fine and caused me no tummy issues unless I increased the dose from 1 to 3 (which is the daily recommended dose for me). My GP has said she's happy for me to continue taking the alternative supplements if they work and they seem to already have since my ferritin has increased from 15 to 21 - with only a few doses that I'd taken! (I momentarily stopped them since I had the nausea/tummy issues with taking 3 immediately a day after I took just 1!)

My GPs have referred me to an endocrinologist as they have diagnosed me with hypothyroidism due to me having mainly raised TSH levels, however I have not gained any weight - if anything I've been losing weight and I do not experience any sort of hair loss or a goitre. I have a tender scalp when brushing sometimes and I have had a goitre in the past - around about 2 years ago - but it went down on its own. I suffer from constipation, fatigue, weak and achy muscles. These are I think and have been suggested as all thyroid/low iron-related.

I think I could have adrenal issues as I've been getting aches and pains in the back of my flank area, nausea and a feeling of weakness/fatigue. I already feel fatigued anyway but it's more pronounced when I get the flank pain and nausea. Looking up adrenal fatigue on other sites I decided to conduct a low adrenal function test as suggested on one such site and to do that I had to test my blood pressure once when sitting and once when standing to check for a drop in blood pressure. I've only tested it once but I do occasionally get postural and orthostatic hypotension when standing from a sitting/lying position. I have read that a drop of 10 or more (I think of either systolic or diastolic is indicative of low adrenal function.)

These are the results for blood pressure:

Test 1 - sitting

Systolic: 143

Diastolic: 84

Pulse: 73

Test 2 - standing

Systolic: 138

Diastolic: 87

Pulse: 60

There's only a drop of 5 for systolic and a rise of 3 for diastolic, so I don't know unless I should measure this more. Why my pulse is much slower is anyone's guess but at rest its average is 56 beats per minute. Is there anyone out there who measures their blood pressure and pulse?

Other things that have been ruled out include diabetes and coeliac disease, both of which have come back negative.

The only other thing that has come back positive is Anti-Nuclear Antibodies but my doctor is not concerned about this as she believes it's down to the autoimmune response I have going on at present.

I also did an online adrenal test via Dr Wilson's adrenal fatigue site and my scores have come up with this:

Past: 59

Now: 72

(A score of more than 32 is adrenal fatigue)

Total score

Past: 156

Now: 202

(A score of more than 132 is severe adrenal fatigue)

Has anyone else used this site to see if they have adrenal fatigue and have they ever shown their results to their GP? If so, what did they say about them?

Would an endocrinologist check for adrenal issues? Have I got any adrenal issues at all or should I give the blood pressure measurements a few more tries? I really don't know what else I can do about this as I've been gorging on a lot of food and my body gets rid of it somehow. I'm 5'3" and weigh 7 stone 10/108lbs/49kg.

Repeat thyroid function test is the 20th January and the follow-up is on the 27th January but I'm not sure if an NHS GP knows a lot about adrenal issues. The GP I've been seeing lately has told me I have an autoimmune illness but I don't know if she would consider me to have adrenal problems - she hasn't said words to that effect anyway.

Thanks for any help.

Jo xxx

[Jackie]

Hi Jo,

If you ask or Endo good and considers it, yes they should check. Usually a check at first visit or so, then when thyroid Ok ,if it was low, another test to see if you need treatment. Test needs to be the good one, others my endo says not reliable, certainly so for me.It is a 24 hour urine collection with a cortisone tablet at midnight ( script) and then a blood test at 9 am. If you started treatment now, it may not be needed and will just confuse things, also would be permanent then It does alter quite a bit when thyroid and surrounding issues dealt with.

It all takes a while, I am afraid no short cuts!

Best wishes,

Jackie

[Hidden in reply to Jackie]

Hi Jackie thanks for your reply!!

It might be worth asking my GP if she would check for adrenal issues as she seems to be one of those doctors that is ready to accept alternative therapies or opinions. She stunned me when she agreed with me having an autoimmune disorder as none of the other doctors would say words to that affect!

With a 24-hour urine collection, that's where I empty my wee into a bag, have I gotten that right? The only urine tests I've ever done are when I've had to pee into a small bottle thing and the GP tested it with a dipstick. That was when I had leukocytes in my urine. Is this 24-hour urine collection one I do at home?

Is it ok to consider an adrenal test through my GP?

I could always go through Blue Horizon again if need be if they can test for adrenal function.

Thanks

Jo xxx

[Jackie in reply to Hidden]

Hi Jo. Before the nitty gritty. It may interest you to know I have had 3 of the Adrenal tests like this. One when I first saw my Endo, it was really quite bad. As soon as my thyroid was stable and treated correctly I had 2 further ones, when thyroid stable.. Still a wee but low, but not enough for any one to need treatment . Fortunate as I cannot have any cortisone, even in a local injection because of my heart. Actually a private doc tried to give it me, at that stage I left him!

There are lots of brilliant 24 urine tests, all specific, the cortisone more complicated, of course. They all involve collecting one or 2 large containers from the Lab, returning them punctually, although generally have preservative in, so not week end. You pick a time, early am, pass urine into the loo, note the time. Then the next 24 hour all goes into the container, last time , exactly the time test started.Yes all done at home, cortisone at midnight, very low dose, pill ( alarm clock?) , blood test Am GP or lab, return the containers

If any of my Endo patients have any other tests, she says no good as not reliable enough for cortisone treatment, I agree.Any doc can do it ,if willing, not very expensive but requires the cortisone, so that is only available on a script. Endo`s are more used to it

I have calcium. Potassium and sodium done like this for "special" tests due too my kidney.liver disease and heart.These are slightly more unusual but several of my consultants ask for them, Blood tests, all known not to be brilliant . A really good test, although I must admit I hate it!

I hope that answers your questions.

Jackie

[Hidden in reply to Jackie]

Hi Jackie, yes you've answered my questions!!

I guess as soon as the TSH has levelled out an adrenal issue may be looked into. I guess there's just too much of a risk since my thyroid isn't working that brilliantly. But I guess since I'm being referred to the endo regarding thyroid problems they're going to want to look at that first. The GP would be the best person to ask as she's looking after me and she would be able to advise.

With the cortisone being on a script I take it that means prescription. So yes, an endo is probably best to sort the adrenal issues out (if I have any!)

I've had potassium and sodium tests done during a complete blood test but they weren't done the same time as my last thyroid function test. They still came back fine however.

Potassium was 4.4mmol/L and sodium was 141 mmol/L. I've looked online for reference ranges and they've fallen in the normal range so far as I can tell. Unfortunately at the time of the printout which these results are on they have no reference ranges for anything I've been tested on but since they updated their systems a few months ago they've since changed that by adding reference ranges to everything. Helpful for me now, but not so helpful when it comes to knowing about past results! Never mind!

Incidentally I had a reply from the secretary at the hospital I've been referred to - they've forwarded my message on to the endo department and they will look to contact me regarding a cancellation. This will be after the Christmas break, but at least it's progress!

Thanks

Jo xxx

[Jackie in reply to Hidden]

HI Jo, There would be no harm just to have the tst if GP willing to do the correct for for you. Yes, cortisone needs to be on a prescription for safety, it may be possible to buy it abroad but I honestly would not and not sure any way of the dose.

think you have done as much as you can,. Except I think you need to chase up seeing an Endo. Is the one you are referred to really good? If not I would research one myself, then ask for another referral. I look at large teaching hospitals for names, then on private hoispital sites as normally more info there. The on the WEB, a lot have their CV`s on their.Lastly phne the consultant`s sec and ask how they like to treat, especially things like with T3. I do that for every consultant, I se lots. Havin had terrible, dangrous ones in the past, recommended by GP. You may be lucky with yours but they do tent to just refer locally.

Lastly I have U`s and E`s done at least once a week. The Potassium at 4.4. is fine, for is idel, range is about 3.6 -52, varies slightly but not much. 4 is the ideal, you would be better not going any higher. If you were to take magnesium ,other than lots in food, then that would make your Potassium likely to go too high. They are all electrolytes.The sodium range is normally 133- 146.That does not vary much. It is a bit high nt too bad. I would try and have less salt, use hers for cooking and add at the table. If very high it can cause high BP and low sodium low BP . Cardios know that, even so my BP is dangerously low because of end stage heart failure, my sodium is also in danger zone very low. Nothing put s mine up. If high often too, deydration, I would try drinking a little more, water if possible. That would be good for the Potasium too. I would not have banana, kiwi or tomatoes too excess, they are the most Potassium rich foods. Otherwise fine, These comments are just to make them even better.

I will not be able to be on the computer much for the next few days as my family all coming.

Best wishes,

Jackie

[Hidden in reply to Jackie]

Hi Jackie, no worries about not being on the computer much!! Thanks for your help!!

I've had the letter through from the hospital and they've included a doctor's name but I'm not sure if it's an endo. My appointment isn't even taking place in the endocrinology department, just says it's in Outpatients which doesn't help much!

I do have high blood pressure as I've been measuring it and it's been coming back very high. I thought because I'm slim and not overweight I wouldn't be having high blood pressure!

I haven't been eating a lot of fruit, so maybe some more fruit would be a good idea.

Cheers

Jo xxx

[Jackie in reply to Hidden]

Hi Quick reply before my study is a bedroom! 4 people all want their own room!

The only thig known to effect high BP is sodium/salt. If you cut out as lot ( need a li8ttle) then it may go down. However, I think all probably connected. I, especially as I think you said that your cholesterol is high, that is often the thyroid.

re Endo, look on the hospital site, all consultants are named. it would be a consultant, but you will need to insist on seeing them when you arrive for app. and at every oportunatey, as often patients fobbed off with a registrar! You could also phone secretary ( Endos) before hand and check they are taking that clinic, often not even there!

Jackie

[Hidden in reply to Jackie]

Hi Jackie, thanks!! Can I put the Doctor's name on here publicly as I have a doctor's name on the letter?

I went on the NHS website and I've gotten some more info about the doctor I'm seeing.

It's a female doctor and she is a consultant physician and endocrinologist. She is also the training director for diabetes and endocrinology at another hospital.

She is also a member of the Specialist Advisory Committee for Endocrinology and Diabetes Mellitus at the Royal College of Physicians.

I suspect I have high cholesterol, not entirely sure although it runs in the family so I guess I do carry that risk. Could I get my GP to test my cholesterol the same time as my next thyroid function test?

Thanks!!

Jo xxx

[helvella in reply to Hidden]

The posting guidelines have some specific guidance over doctors' names:

healthunlocked.com/thyroidu...

Rod

[Hidden in reply to helvella]

Ok Rod - thanks. I just didn't want to break any rules by posting doctors names without their consent. I've only put a description as to the doctor being female and the other info.

I didn't want to get into any trouble.

Jo xxx

[Jackie in reply to Hidden]

Hi That sounds perfect, a general Endo much the best. read her name on local private hospitals, more info and look on WEB most have their CV. You can put seeing, Dr. initial, and such and such hospital, and could any one who has seen her, send you a PM. personal message.

Jackie

[Hidden in reply to Jackie]

Hi Jackie!!!

Will do and thanks for the advice - you've been most helpful.

Jo xxx

[Jackie]

Hi One persons opinion! The WEB is very useful for lots of research, especially the Mayo Clinic USA, favoured by medics. However, important to bear in mind that if using WEB needs to be tempered with other views of lots of good docs and lots of research

I give my opinion based on many years of being hypothyroid, autoimmune and a very good Endo. Previously to that made very ill first by a useless private doc and then by a good one, who because misinformed over dosed me.

I never criticise other people`s opinions and expect the same courtesy in return.personally I like to have lots of opinions and do not say one is right or wrong even if misguided.

Jackie.

[shaws]

Many doctors do not know or recognise adrenal fatigue. Many holistic doctors do and some doctors believe that when on optimum medication for the thyroid gland that the adrenals sort themselves out.

Not everyone gains weight with hypothyroidism, some do lose. Some gain if they are not on optimum medication but kept within the range.

[Hidden in reply to shaws]

Hi Shaws, thanks for your reply.

I actually gained weight when I started the thyroxine but I have since lost this weight and have not been able to gain any since. Not sure why, which was why I assumed it might be a possible adrenal issue.

Jo xxx

[Vinylrecords]

Hi Jo,

Imho, I would recommend seeing an endocrinologist for the appropriate stimulation tests to see if you have primary or secondary adrenal insufficiency. Yes, these are the physicians that do this. I went through the testing last summer as I was on Prednisone (small dose treatment) for 3 years due to various issues. They will test your levels early in the morning or at least they should. My endo did not test me until the afternoon and he tested me while on Prednisone which is so wrong. Anyway, your blood will be drawn three times after an injection of stimulating cortisol. They will first take a baseline and will retake at 1/2 hour intervals I believe. I know my body reacted appropriately and produced the jump in the cortisol levels. Even though my baseline was low. I can post all of the tests performed during the stim test if you like I just need to go into my electronic health records and post if you would like me to do that. I am considered secondary adrenal insufficiency due to taking cortisone tablets for 3 years. My mother had secondary adrenal insufficiency due to a pituitary tumor which also caused secondary hypothyroidism. Long story. I don't want to make the post endless. Let me know and I will be glad to post the detailed process the tests performed, the timing and the outcome. I recently had a serum ACTH which should not have been done as I am having a return of symptoms going off the prednisone. I am down to 3 mg/day but I am having much difficulty. I was at 5 mg. 6 months ago. My symptoms are peripheral neuropathy in the feet. Burning pain. Many of my symptoms are looking like MS that started when I was 30 and I am now 55 and I am still fighting for a diagnosis. I came upon some old test results of the spine that are pointing to MS but they see no lesions in the brain. But the brain is shrinking. They say it is age related. I am only 55. So who knows? Let me know if you are interested in additional details. Hang in there.

[Hidden in reply to Vinylrecords]

Hi Vinylrecords!! Thanks for your reply.

With the endo appointment I was mainly going there to be given extra information about whether I have Hashimoto's or not as the GP is not being straight with me about it as well as possibly seeking T3 meds as I've heard a lot of good things about taking T3 instead of T4. I do have other symptoms such as failing to gain weight despite eating a lot and because I'm hypothyroid it doesn't make a lot of sense, hence why I'm being referred.

When they draw the blood 3 times after the stimulating cortisol, does that mean that I would have to stay in the hospital for that time? I guess it would make sense if that were the case.

But yes, I would be interested in the test results you had done and any extra info, thank you.

I didn't know that adrenal insufficiency could be caused by taking cortisone tablets. I haven't taken any myself, but I was on a few courses of hydrocortisone injections (intra-articular) when I had hip tendinitis. I'm wondering if hydrocortisone has any ill effects as it is a steroid much in the same way as cortisone.

I don't know if I have peripheral neuropathy but I get Raynaud's in my hands and feet - not nice at all. I still have nerve damage from the effects of the cold as I favour hot showers, but the minute the hot water touches my feet - especially my toes - it hurts like mad. I've had an MRI done on my head/neck and they've said there's nothing wrong with my pituitary so I guess that's all ok.

I'm so sorry to hear about your own problems. And how a doctor can say your symptoms are age-related when you are still young doesn't make any sense. I was told that when my thyroid problems were thought of to be Graves' Disease. I was 26 at the time (I'm now 28). I remember when I was on the phone to the hospital receptionist and she said that I was in the risk category because of my age.

Thanks and take care.

Jo xxx

[Vinylrecords in reply to Hidden]

Hi Jo:

I responded to you because our symptoms are very similar and you are around the same age when my issues started. I was just about 30 yrs/old. I have the strange scalp pain. I would always say it feels like my hair hurts. Actually, I knew it was a tender scalp but brushing my hair was a nightmare. So you are another one that lost weight with hypothyroidism too. I dropped to almost nothing and I think that is why my primary did not believe me. But really, what else is new? If they can't see it - you ain't got it. My thyroid problem for years was strictly an out of sight TSH level. Recently it was a 27. They said, "I was not taking my thyroid medicine." Really, and why would I do that? So I could feel like death warmed over. Grrr!

The Stimulation test to check for Adrenal insufficiency is as follows:

First, the test can be done in an Endo's office maybe the UK is different than the US but I would doubt it as we are almost identical in healthcare. So, they gave you Hydrocortisone shots?

These are the tests they did with the stimulation test:

Cortisol: 12:15 pm baseline 11.6 ug/dl

PM reference range: 2.3 -11.9 ug/dl

Cortisol 12:55 pm after administration of a small injection to see if my adrenals would respond.

My range at 12:55 was 23.6 ug/dl. They jumped quite nicely.

Cortisol 1:25 pm jumped to 25.4 ug/dl still rose.

Aldosterone was also included in the test taken along with cortisol.

My aldosterone serum was a "4" ng/dl

Adult reference ranges LC/MS/MS (I don't know what the whole LC/MS/MS thing is. I should probably look it up.

Upright 8 to 10 AM < or = 28 ng/dl

Upright 4 to 6 PM < or = 21ng/dl

Supine 8 to 10 AM < or = 3-16 ng/dl

Then at 12:55 PM it jumped to 11 ng/dl

Then at 1:25 PM it was still at 11 ng/dl

They do not advise on the testing whether you are in range or out and you must depend solely on the endocrinologist doing the test. So, I was told they were good. Who knows, the cortisol looked good. I don't know about the aldosterone though. Again, he did the tests while still on prednisone which you just are not supposed to do. I recently had the ACTH serum done and it was at 0 (zero) probably because I am still tapering and it is a long taper. Every time I taper many of my original symptoms return. Such as scalp pain, visual issues, I did go legally blind last summer and they operated on both eyes. Prior to that I was having transient vision loss of the right eye. They still question me how I knew it was the right eye? I put my hand up to my eyes to see which eye it was. What a ridiculous question. They treat us like we are imbeciles. This had been going on since I was thirty off and on with strange jumping vision.

You said you get flank pain. Does it feel like your ribs hurt on one side? Or like someone is squeezing you around your rib cage? Are you unusually clumsy? Strange migraines? You know your thyroid levels are still out of whack, right? Why do they think you are seeking T-3? They are so paranoid it is annoying. Heck, I know I would have been seeking T-3 had I known it existed. I don't get them, I really don't. Seeking T-3? That is almost funny if we did not feel like dirt. I know some people take it to lose weight and there are some questions there.

Our symptoms really parallel, I am still seeking a diagnosis after 25 years. I know what I have but I cannot find a doctor to complete the tests. I will get to the bottom and get the diagnosis very shortly. Off to the University again and it is time for me to demand and demand this time I will but with a very sweet tone of course. So sorry you are dealing with this now. You remind me of myself. Take care of you.

[Hidden in reply to Vinylrecords]

Hi Vinylrecords, thanks ever so much for getting back to me and for supplying the info from your own adrenal tests. I have some idea now of what the reference ranges should be and what they do -- thanks!! :))

Yes, I had hydrocortisone shots but they were intra-articular (directly injected into my hip joint when I had tendinitis.) I wasn't sure if hydrocortisone had any effects that were similiar to cortisone but since they're both steroids I thought I'd add that in, in case it had some relevance. Might well do, I don't know! Who knows?

I was asked by one GP at my practice (not the nice one I see at the moment) if I was taking my thyroid meds properly when he found that my TSH level was 4. It was within normal range so I don't know why he'd gotten so wound up about it. But I was taking my thyroids meds at the time. The only time I didn't was before the blood draw which was what I was advised to do as it wouldn't produce the correct readings for my thyroid function! I was very cross to be accused of ignoring medical advice! I thought he would've been pleased to have it drop it at all from 22 to then! So yes, I understand the frustration of GPs assuming that we didn't do this or that when we did.

With the flank pain, yes, I get it on one side as if someone is squeezing me. Sometimes it happens when I'm in bed one morning and other times it's when I'm doing nothing at all.

I'm clumsy all the time unfortunately. I drop things, knock things over, trip up/stumble. Sometimes I have trouble keeping myself balanced. Could that be adrenal?

I used to get migraines above my brow bone but now I get them in my temples, in my eyes and pretty much anywhere in my head.

I'm sure my thyroid's out of whack but the GP hasn't said words to that effect. The TSH was high last time yet the Free T4 was higher than before - so the GP says it could be that my thyroid is compensating for the high TSH and my hormone levels have not yet dropped. The other doctor I saw said something like "There is another hormone present that the thyroid makes and that is the T3 - but we don't test for that as for one thing it's costly and secondly it might not be relevant to you." Which was why I went private for that test and still had no joy as the result for that was normal.

Good luck with your own diagnosis - I knew I would have a fight on my hands but I didn't expect a fight like this before. Let me know how you get on won't you and thanks for all your help - you've been brilliant.

Take care!!

Jo xxx

[Vinylrecords in reply to Hidden]

Hell Again Jo,

Glad to be of some help. In my humble, non medical opinion, your issues do not sound like adrenal issues. I was the caretaker of my ill mother for 20 some years as she suffered from a pituitary tumor, secondary adrenal failure, secondary thyroid failure. I did a lot of research on this condition. However, if you can get your Endo to do a stimulation test please do so as it is best to rule out an issue such as adrenal failure or adrenal insufficiency.

Please do a favor for me and keep a medical diary of strange symptoms you may have that seem totally unrelated to the thyroid. Your clumsiness and "migraines" are similar to what I have morphed into. Make them brief but detailed and take them to your physician with you. Especially symptoms that come and go and how long they last.

Do you have any back pain? Note, that left flank rib pain, squeezing type can be coming from the spine. Strange how a spinal problem can be so unrelated. Please take notes, as when we feel well we can quickly forget the peculiar symptoms or totally dismiss them. We have a tendency to think they won't ever return again only to return again at a later date. I wish you the best please take care. If you have any further questions I am here.

[Hidden in reply to Vinylrecords]

Hi again Vinylrecords!!

I don't see my Endo until 4th March which is a long time to wait. I was told to expect a reply from the Endo department but I've not yet heard back from them. I now have the secretary's name for the Endo I'm seeing so I will send her a message and see what happens. It can't hurt to ask!

Yes, I get back pain which is mostly under my left shoulder blade. Sounds weird doesn't it. Don't know what it is but it's very sharp and doesn't last long.

Thanks

Jo xxx

[Vinylrecords in reply to Hidden]

Hi Jo,

No, it certainly will not hurt to ask. Luckily the left should blade pain does not last long. I thought your pain was near your rib cage. Oops! Possibly muscular as I know when my thyroid was out of whack in the beginning my muscular pain was bad. Keep an eye on it. Does anything help with the pain? Heating pad or ice? Non steroidal anti inflammatory medicine? Remember the back can cause strange pain as well. Take Care, Jo.

Dolores

[Hidden in reply to Vinylrecords]

Hi Dolores!! Sorry for the confusion! I do get pain in my ribcage, yes, but I sometimes get it in my shoulder blade as well which is odd.

I haven't tried any pain relief yet, simply because it's only happened twice.

If it happens again I will definitely take some painkillers and maybe some heat would work too.

Thanks!!

Jo xxx

[Vinylrecords in reply to Hidden]

Hello Jo,

A little back track here. When you experience the rib cage pain does it encompass both sides and how does it feel? Is it a stabbing pain or a pain like someone is giving you a painful bear hug type pain? Does the rib pain last longer than the shoulder blade pain? Just curious Jo, because I am still wondering if this could be coming from your spine. The nerves and spinal cord can do some really weird things. Some of which can be a little embarrassing when it comes to bathroom issues. My spine is degenerating as I have degenerative disc disease. Or at least, so they say. Does your pain radiate to your spinal area at all. That is a pretty unusual pain but I have it and I know it is not pleasant at all. Any crunching in the spine or neck area when you move. It almost sounds like popping of the bones. Thyroid issues bring on a host of strange symptoms and doctors at times, will give us the blank stare as though to say, "What is this patient talking about?" I am trying to give you a heads up before a health issue can turn into a problem.

Take Care,

Dolores

[Hidden in reply to Vinylrecords]

Hi Dolores, thanks for getting back to me.

With the rib pain, I get it both sides and it feels as though someone's giving me a painful bear hug. Sometimes it hurts to breathe and it happens more often in bed than any other time.

The shoulder blade pain I get when I'm sitting (this even happens when I'm sitting upright with no pressure/tension in my back)

The rib pain does last longer than the shoulder blade pain. Shoulder blade pain is pretty much fleeting, around about 2 or 3 seconds. The rib pain lasts much longer at around a few minutes or so.

I get crunching in my neck when I move it to the left or right and my back makes crunching sounds when I straighten it or stretch it out.

Thanks Dolores and take care too.

Jo xxx

[Vinylrecords in reply to Hidden]

Hi Jo,

Can you possibly get a bone scan in the UK? I guess it would really be pushing it to get a MRI of the Thoracic spine? Did you say they did a cat scan of the brain and neck or an MRI? Did you ever have severe growing pains in your legs as a child? I am just curious and you do not have to answer my questions only if you feel comfortable. Also do your fingertips ever bother you or your nail beds? When you had a scan of the brain and neck do you know if the scans reported any hyperintensities anywhere on the brain or neck? The report would state hyperintensities. I don't think a cat scan would be able to pick up hyperintensities possibly only an MRI. I am just curious as this can possibly be related to hypothyroidism however rare. Just don't want you to have to go through the hoops I had to jump through for years. Any hypertrophic bone problems showing up on the scans?. Mostly hypertrophic bone problems will show up in the long bones of the legs first.

I am not trying to diagnose your condition but attempting to see if you may be ignoring symptoms that are totally unrelated to thyroid issues. The thyroid is a nasty health issue in itself however other issues may be presenting and you are thinking it is all thyroid related. When you could have some bone problems concurrently.

Wishing you a healthy and happy new year. With a big emphasis on health. Enjoy bringing in the new year, have some laughs. Hang out with some friends or family for good cheer. Let me know when you can if you feel comfortable. Otherwise, remember it is not always the thyroid issue throwing the curves.

Happy New Year, Jo!

D

[Hidden in reply to Vinylrecords]

Hi D!! Hope you had a happy new year yourself and thanks for getting back to me. :))

I could get a bone scan but it might have to be private as I'm NHS registered and my GP probably wouldn't go through with referring me as the neck and spinecrunching isn't frequent and doesn't cause me any pain.

I had an MRI of the head/neck when a goitre was suspected. My goitre has since gone down but I still have some problems swallowing. The only thing that came back abnormal for that was that my tonsils were enlarged! So possibly unrelated to thyroid issues.

Yes, I had severe growing pains in my legs as a child and I still get them actually even though I'm nearly 30!

Fingertips don't bother me but my toenails keep flaking and the nail beds there are dry. Could that be something at all?

I've had x-rays done on my hip when I had problems with that - in 2002 I injured my hip. Something pretty minor in itself as I got up after sitting down, walked a few steps and had a sharp pain go from the right groin to the inside of my leg. I couldn't move it at all and from then onwards it would snap/click very loudly. I had scans galore done on it and various things were flagged up on the x-rays I had done. Most came back clear but one of them said I had hip dysplasia (where the hip isn't in the socket very well) and the other scan said I had FAI (femoral acetabular impingement) where the hip was too deep into the joint!

So I had two conflicting scans! After 6 years of blood tests, scans and costly private osteo sessions it turned out I had hip tendinitis/snapping hip syndrome, where one of the hip tendons was trapped in my hip socket. So I had an operation to release the tendon from where it was caught and also the same tendon repaired as it had frayed from the constant snapping.

That's a point actually - a lot of my joints snap (not crunch exactly) and I can't rotate my left arm as I can with my right. Sounds weird doesn't it.

Thanks and hope you had a lovely New Year.

Jo xxx

[Vinylrecords in reply to Hidden]

Happy New Year Jo,

Hope all is well with you. We could almost be related with the commonality of symptoms. Now, my daughter is having issues with her joints coming out of the socket but her insurance will not approve anything. Grrh! Also, has leg pain (growing pains type of excruciating pain). I woke up 2 days ago with the growing pains but what I find that is peculiar is I am 55 and I am certainly not still growing.

Your toenail issue sounds like hypothyroidism. Definitely. Sorry your primary will not approve the testing and you have to go out on your own to pay for it. I do know the feeling there. Sounds like there could possibly be a secondary or primary bone issue going on. Remember, I am not medically trained but I am honing in on your bone issues which can be a nightmare. A lot of pain and throw hypothyroidism in the stew and you have chronic pain. Which of course they will throw you into the fybromylagia group. They always do. Please address the bone scan if you can. It shows a significant amount of issues with the bones. I was lucky to have one seven years ago even if they did not address what the doctor said I was suspicious for and now after 3 months of perusing past medical records I know what I have. My tests were completely ignored. Make note to get every single test result from the doctors. Keep them in a safe place and do not let other doctors get your originals. This has just happened to me.

Your joints snapping does not sound weird at all. Can be air popping in the joints but can be other bone issues. Arthritis, etc. Try to get checked out if you can. I wish you great health in the new year. Without it, we have very little.

. Dolores

[Hidden in reply to Vinylrecords]

Hi Dolores!!

I'll push for a bone scan at my next appointment but I don't think my GP will make any promises. I once saw another GP at the practice regarding the cramps in my legs and I suggested to him it could be hypothyroidism. He said no as there would have to be "dermatological effects" - I guess he meant to say there would have to be visible effects with the skin on my leg, as in pretibial myxoedema. I thought pretibial myxoedema was caused by hyperthyrodisim?

Anyway to cut a long story short he diagnosed me with a trapped nerve or the way I've been sitting - but I get the pain in bed as well as sitting? I can't see how that can be from one trapped nerve!

Thanks

Jo xxx

[Hidden]

Ok, thanks. I went on the NHS website and I've gotten some more info about the doctor I'm seeing.

It's a female doctor and she is a consultant physician and endocrinologist. She is also the training director for diabetes and endocrinology at another hospital.

She is also a member of the Specialist Advisory Committee for Endocrinology and Diabetes Mellitus at the Royal College of Physicians.

Jo xxx

[princess20]

Hi I took the red apple adrenal function test and I have adrenal fatigue. I also did dr Wilson's test too with the same result. But in effect my gp was not really interested. There are supplements you can take such as holy basil and phosphotysal serine whilst some dr's say that once thyroid function is sorted the adrenals will sort themselves. Have you tried t3 yet for that can help settle adrenals too? Good luck naomi

[Hidden in reply to princess20]

Hi Princess20!!! Thanks for your reply.

No, I haven't tried T3 yet as my GP hasn't suggested it and I'm afraid to ask as I know so many people here have had trouble obtaining it from their own GPs. The holy basil and phosphotysal serine are things I'll look into however - I've got a lot of window shopping to do!

I've read on a site that Brazil nuts contain T3 (a bit of a long shot I know) . The link is here:

voices.yahoo.com/brazil-nut...

I'm thinking about perhaps taking 1 nut a day as I know too many aren't good to have.

Jo xxx