Oral Thrush

[Aberlour]

I started steroid treatment in September and have reduced dose from 20mgs to 15mgs. Throughout treatment I have had Oral Thrush. It cleared after treatment with Nystatin, but almost immediately returned. I am not taking any other medication apart from calcium and Vitamin D tablets. Is Prednisolone causing the Oral Thrush? Can anyone suggest a natural remedy?

[123-go]

This is a link found in ‘related posts’:

healthunlocked.com/pmrgcauk...

There are other posts but I think you’ll find the comments useful. Good luck.

[Aberlour in reply to 123-go]

Thank you for the guide to very helpful information.

[PMRpro Ambassador]

The pred is almost certainly what is making it so persistent. Unfortunately, once it gets entrenched it may take weeks of nystatin to clear it completely so it keeps coming back. Speak to the GP about it - they may be willing to help.

And important action to take after clearing thrush is to change your toothbrush - get a batch of cheap disposable ones. Getting a good probiotic should also help.

[Aberlour in reply to PMRpro]

Thank you so much for your helpful advice. I will speak to my GP and get a supply of toothbrushes. I do take a probiotic -Yakult. Would that be considered ‘good’

[PMRpro Ambassador in reply to Aberlour]

I mean something like YSL#3 which is top of the range and not cheap so perhaps out of some people's price range. However, it is very very good and works - unlike some where you are just shelling out on a permanent basis. Once you have sorted things out, you can probably maintain the status will something less expensive.

vsl3.co.uk/

PS - are you in Aberlour?

[Aberlour in reply to PMRpro]

Thank you for that info. I will definitely try that.

[AyJayBass in reply to PMRpro]

I have been taking VSL#3 for the past few months and it does seem to work well. A couple of my meds cause constipation and VSL#3 has solved that problem.

[DorsetLady PMRGCAuk volunteer]

I had to have a couple of bouts eary days, by Nystatin did clear it, althoud second time around I need need two courses.. so as PMRpro says speak to GP.

Mine never retirned...

[Aberlour in reply to DorsetLady]

Thank you. Perseverance is obviously required.

[DorsetLady PMRGCAuk volunteer in reply to Aberlour]

Always!

[SnazzyD]

Some good advice already. I’ll just say check your sugar and refined carbohydrate intake as the fungus that causes thrush loves it.

[Aberlour in reply to SnazzyD]

I eat very little carbohydrates, but feel a need for some -generally a couple of slices of toast a day. Definitely developed a sweet tooth, which I restrict to 2 pieces of dark chocolate. Will try to resist!

[Blearyeyed]

I get it quite regularly after antibiotics etc. If it is persistent it does require up to a month of antifungals , they usually prescribe them a week at a time if it's not happened to you before.

Drinking more water and green tea and swilling your mouth with green tea after eating helps speed up clearing it as well as relieving the burning feeling .

Steer clear of mouthwash as your throat is already sore and they are strong so will cause stinging and more irritation.

Keep away from all sugars , try to avoid all the white or processed carbs , fruit , particularly grapes and fruit without skins, and any food containing yeast or fungi while you treat it. That includes things like bread but also some odd ones like coffee , peanuts , rice , corn , flour , cheese as these contain trace yeasts or spores , obviously mushrooms are of the list too.

Unfortunately, you need to be a lot more strict with your diet when dealing with a resistant fungal infection than you usually try to do with a bacteria.

Eating probiotic live yoghurt for breakfast and before a meal which you can sweeten with a little honey , or flavour with herbs or spice to use as a dip helps cool the mouth and throat and reduce stomach acid which can also bring symptom relief.

Improving the gut balance with probiotics also helps as sometimes the fungal infection continues because it has reached the stomach and it can remain in the oesophagus.

If you can eat or take it as a supplement with your medications Garlic is also helpful .

[KASHMIRI1]

I have had the problem you describe for a coupe of years. Now at 7mg pred and it seems to have abated.

[Hidden]

Good morning, I like to use the natural remedies where possible and my go-to for mouth ulcers, thrush, sore throats, post-antibiotics and the like are: mouthwash with colloidal silver regularly and a daily glass of kefir - I grow my own as hubby & I and our two dogs have a daily glass with breakfast but you can buy it ready made in most large supermarkets now, but it’s more expensive of course. Wishing you better soon.

[Aberlour in reply to Hidden]

Thank you for your helpful suggestions. It is clear that steroids are causing the problem, but ther are many remedies to try. Warm salt water has been very helpful initially. I am so glad to find that I am not the only one to suffer from this problem.

[PMRpro Ambassador in reply to Hidden]

"I like to use the natural remedies where possible and my go-to for mouth ulcers, thrush, sore throats, post-antibiotics and the like are: mouthwash with colloidal silver"

Can you explain what is "natural" about colloidal silver? It is an extremely controversial substance and carries many risks with it. In many ways, as an ancient remedy it must rank alongside administration of mercury ...

nccih.nih.gov/health/colloi....

healthline.com/nutrition/co...

[MiniSpec in reply to PMRpro]

When my missus had mouth ulcers she used colloidal silver as a mouthwash, and it cleared the ulcers, so she swears by it. I don't know that it's good to drink though.

Both she and my daughter also use silver on cuts, burns, and any other skin lesions and they both tell me it works to help healing. One thing I did read about was that army jackets have silver thread sewn into the armpits, as an anti-bacterial and anti-fungal agent. So I guess there is some benefit to its use, but probably only externally, or to rinse or gargle with.

[PMRpro Ambassador in reply to MiniSpec]

I go out of my way to avoid any of these products with silver "ingredients" - they are potentially dangerous, especially nanoparticles. They, like plastic microparticles, get everywhere and their long term risks are difficult to assess.

ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articl....

[MiniSpec in reply to PMRpro]

Good point. I don't use the stuff myself, but like I said, my wife and daughter speak very highly of it. I wonder if they know about the nanoparticles? I'll have to ask them and see what they say. Once they are aware of them they may be a little more cautious in silver use themselves, so thanks for the information. 👍

[PMRpro Ambassador in reply to MiniSpec]

I think the link is quite clear about the woo associated with silver. It DOES have a roles in the medical field BUT its inappropriate use carries risks.

[MiniSpec in reply to PMRpro]

I tried clicking on the link you posted so that I could read the article, but it won't open on my computer, so I don't know what it says.

[PMRpro Ambassador in reply to MiniSpec]

I'm surprised - are you sure it isn't just it comes up with the HU redirection warning which tells you that you are leaving the HU site? Just continue if that is the case.

This is the Abstract though:

Aims

The aim was to investigate the marketing practices, beliefs and health claims regarding the use of colloidal silver in Finland. Silver nanoparticles (AgNPs) are potentially toxic due to their small size and Ag+-release capabilities, and the use of colloidal silver products containing AgNPs can cause a wide variety of adverse effects such as argyria.

Methods

Contents of three company websites selling colloidal silver were reviewed, and the claims used in the marketing of colloidal silver were compared to the scientific information about silver. In Facebook posts and discussion about colloidal silver were analyzed.

Results

In Finland, the marketing of colloidal silver products on websites selling the products did not follow the regulations of authorities; several scientifically unfounded claims about the efficacy and medical use of colloidal silver were found. After the Finnish Broadcasting Company (Yle) documentary and an intervention by authorities, contents of the websites were changed, but still questionable information and misleading claims could be found. In the analyzed Facebook groups attitudes towards medical use of colloidal silver were uncritically positive, internal use was highly promoted and the restrictions of use were considered unjustified.

Conclusions

The use of quackery products such as colloidal silver can be dangerous, and their use and marketing should be controlled and restricted.

[PMRpro Ambassador in reply to PMRpro]

Toxicity of colloidal silver products and their marketing claims in Finland

Veera Leino

This is the title so you could search it yourself.

[perceptual63 in reply to PMRpro]

If I'm not mistaken, I think I read an article a few years back were someone turned blue from I think they were ingesting colloidal silver. The article even posted a pic of the person and sure enough they had a silverly-blue hue to them. 😳

[PMRpro Ambassador in reply to perceptual63]

Yes, argyria is mentioned in the links.

[MiniSpec in reply to PMRpro]

Interesting!

When I clicked on the link the first time, I got a message saying '502 Bad Gateway'. However, I've now clicked on it again, and I now get the redirect page that I can click on to open the article. I'll give it a read, and then see if I can copy either the link or the article to my wife's laptop, so that she can read it when she gets home from work.

[PMRpro Ambassador in reply to MiniSpec]

Ah - the dreaded bad gateway - happens to me quite often! Sometimes HU is very picky about exactly where you click! Just try, try again ...

[Floridafan]

I have to say I tried everything but couldn’t find anything that worked successfully. Eventually, it disappeared on its own as I reduced the Prednisolone. Hope you manage to find something that works for you.

[paleolady]

I used Mylanta liquid, cherry flavor, and liquid children's Benadryl. I mixed the two together and swished around my mouth and spit out. It took a couple of days but it went away.

[PMRpro Ambassador in reply to paleolady]

Do you mean mylanta? That is for heartburn - not thrush.

[paleolady in reply to PMRpro]

In the US, doctors call it the magic rinse or something like that. Equal parts Mylanta and children's liquid Benadryl. Swish in mouth and spit out, don't swallow. Works better than the scripts they write out and your are not ingesting anything. Try it😀

[PMRpro Ambassador in reply to paleolady]

It may not work - the ingredients in benadryl in the US are different from in Europe. I don't need it though.

And Magic Mouthwash has a lot more in it than just those 2:

50 mL viscous lidocaine 2%

50 mL Mylanta.

50 mL diphenhydramine (Benadryl) at 12.5 mg per 5 ml elixir.

50 mL nystatin (100,000U per 5 mL) suspension.

50 mL prednisolone at 15mg per 5ml solution.

50 mL distilled water.

It includes nystatin - the anti-thrush element

[JuneWalker]

I also had Oral Thrush from June until October last year due to Prednisone. My pharmacist recommended Nystatin. It would clear up then come back. A constant cycle. After I was down to 20 mgs of Prednisone from 80 mgs., the Oral Thrush finally disappeared . I purchased 100 toothbrushes and changed them regularly. In the beginning I was just swishing/gargling the Nystatin then my pharmacist asked if I was swallowing after gargling. I told her that I was not swallowing it. She highly recommended I swallow the Nystatin as the oral thrush was coming back because it remained in my esophagus. It has cleared up and no more oral thrush.