Vitamin K.

[yogabonnie]

I am starting a new regime.. and will be drinking GREEN smoothies with 2 cups of kale/swiss chard/spinach along with banana and berries... and I have been taking Vit K with the calcium. Can I drop the pills because of all the greens? All this is for my bones which are being eaten by prednisone during my PMR. Thanks. Photo is my dog. (RIP) and the sidewalk across the street from my house. just a day brightener! And the way I feel today.

[SheffieldJane]

Oh the dear old pooch, sadly missed I’ll bet. Nice sentiments about a dog on a walk. Being so much slower, I really notice nature on my walks, sights and sounds and smells. One of PMR’s rare little gifts. Your smoothie sounds great! I guess abnormal chemicals are attacking our bones, so possibly still take those supplements just in case and vit D of course - Magnesium too.

Do you need a brightner or are you feeling bright? I hope the latter. Xxx

[Hev1964]

don’t know much about the vitamin K but have to say your dog is gorgeous xx

[nickm001]

for calcium to be absorbed into bones, you need K2, which can usually be found in fermented food. Japanese fermented soy beans (natto) are the best natural source of vitamin K2.

[Telian in reply to nickm001]

What dose is needed if taking supplements of K2?

[nickm001 in reply to Telian]

you need calcium, vitamin d3 and K2 for proper bone growth. I do not take suplements for K2, probably about 200mcg, I dont know the exact answer, but I can tell you that Japanese diet contains at least 230mcg per day of K2 and it is plenty to eat just 1/2 serving of natto. Container cost is about 25C; taste is hard for some to adjust to.

[Telian in reply to nickm001]

Thank you Nick - don't know what natto is but will look into it..

[nickm001 in reply to Telian]

Natto is fermented soy beans. Just google "natto". Any local Japanese store would have it. You willnot have problem finding it... but it has distinct taste; I use mustard with horse reddish to cover it, so that I can tolerate the taste.

[Telian in reply to nickm001]

Thanks nick

[maria40 in reply to nickm001]

Does miso paste - also from fermented soy beans - which I use a lot for making soup- also contain Vitamin K?

[nickm001 in reply to maria40]

apparently the whole soy beans have K2;While miso has K vitamin, it does not have much K2, which is the one you want with D3 and calcium for bones

[yogabonnie in reply to nickm001]

Not so much the taste for me but the texture!

[PMRpro Ambassador]

I eat large amounts of greeny leafy veg and still take my calcium supplements - my bone density hadn't change significantly in over 7 years on pred.

[Linny3]

It is so odd how we all come across different things to try to help ourselves at about the same time. I also just started green smoothies , vit k along with d3 and Calcium Microcrystatlline Hydroxyapaatite. I came across this Calcium and thought it sounded better then what I was currently using.

Found this on Dr. Joseph Debe site ( for whatever that is worth?)

The overall best form of calcium to use for bone health is Microcrystalline Hydroxyapatite Concentrate (MCHC). MCHC is more than calcium. It is bovine-source whole bone concentrate. Not only does it contain calcium and other minerals naturally occurring within bones, but it also contains hydroxyapatite, collagens, non-collagen proteins including the calcium-binding protein osteocalcin, and various growth factors including insulin-like growth factor I and II and transforming growth factor beta. Numerous studies have found MCHC to be effective in slowing or even reversing bone loss in postmenopausal women. When compared to calcium carbonate, MCHC was more than twice as effective in slowing bone loss in postmenopausal women with osteoporosis. In another study with postmenopausal women, while calcium gluconate stopped bone loss, MCHC actually produced an increase in bone mass. An animal study has found that relative to other forms of calcium (including carbonate), MCHC improved the patterns and quality of bone healing after fracture.

Phosphorus is an essential component of bone. The average American diet, however, supplies excess phosphorus by way of meat and soda. This contributes to a secondary hyperparathyroidism, which causes increased bone resorption, as calcium is lost from the body. Excess dietary fat binds to calcium in the intestines, preventing its absorption. Aluminum (which is often found in water, antacids, processed cheese, table salt, aluminum foil, and antiperspirants) weakens bones by increasing urinary and fecal excretion of calcium. The citrate form of calcium may increase aluminum absorption. Excess dietary salt increases the loss of calcium in the urine. Sugar causes calcium and magnesium to be lost in the urine. Caffeine intake increases release of epinephrine or adrenaline, which causes calcium and magnesium to be lost in the urine. Although younger women's bodies seem to compensate for this with increased intestinal absorption of calcium, older women are not as resilient in this regard. Phytates, found in certain grains, decrease the absorption of calcium and other minerals from these grains. Plant enzyme supplements can be used to break down the phytates. Studies on the impact of consumption of cow's milk on bone health have produced mixed results. Cow's milk should not be consumed by those with an allergy to it or with intolerance to the milk sugar lactose.

[HeronNS in reply to Linny3]

Very interesting. Calcium hydroxyapatite is supposed to be more readily absorbed by people on pred. That's what I've mostly used for the past few years (although lately I've been taking calcium citrate instead of one of the doses, cheaper). The source is guaranteed CJD-free New Zealand cattle.

[HeronNS]

You won't get Vitamin K2 from your greens, I'm afraid. Depending on the source of other foods you eat you may or may not be deficient in K2, most of us are. But if your meat and dairy come from grass fed (never grain fed) animals they will have been converting K1 into K2 and can be a good source. Some fermented foods are good sources, but it depends on the starter which is used, apparently, so not necessarily reliable. I take a K2 supplement, plus a wide variety of fermented foods to cover all the bases.

Some say that we make our own K2, but unfortunately we aren't very efficient at it and if the aim is to keep aging bones healthy I think we need more than we ourselves can make. I certainly wouldn't trust my North American diet to keep me adequately supplied with K2.

That being said, the greens are an excellent food and are also doing your bones good, but not because of vitamin K1.

[morrison]

Just nice to get up and beyond😊