On a recent post we all discussed v0itamin supplements.I dont understand why or how you can get toxicity from vitamin B6 . I've looked at my multivitamin I take every 2 days and it had 1.4 mg in it. I realise I get lots from my diet. I could rely on my diet if I knew what I was absorbing .
I've found I need iron since b12 deficient.
If b6 is a soluble vitamin that you need daily and cannot be stored how does it get toxic in the body?? I thought water soluble vits tiy ooe out the excess.
If anyone can explain I would be grateful as I'm struggling with it all.
I'm getting bloods done soon but I very much doubt I can get that done.
I'm looking into what can cause light sensitivity. Also I if anything adding ti headaches /
head pain.
Vitamin d raised to 72 hS helped as has ferritin raised ti 46. Ng/l
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Nackapan
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You won’t get toxicity from a 1.4 milligrams supplement tablet of B6 daily . So not to worry . You virtually can’t get toxicity from large amounts in your food . . I don’t know the science behind it .
I have previously posted this explanation (below) of why B6 supplementation might be a cause of issues. Though I doubt a very small dose would have any untoward effects.
We really can't take water solubility as a guarantee that something doesn't cause problems on the way through. The medical establishment is constantly telling us that too much salt is bad for us and that is most definitely water soluble. As, indeed, is sugar. And, as fbirder has pointed out, hydrogen cyanide.
1 Department of Pharmacology and Toxicology, Maastricht University, Maastricht, The Netherlands. Electronic address: m.vrolijk@maastrichtuniversity.nl.
2 Department of Pharmacology and Toxicology, Maastricht University, Maastricht, The Netherlands; Netherlands Food and Consumer Product Safety Authority (NVWA), Utrecht, The Netherlands.
3 National Institute for Public Health and the Environment (RIVM), Bilthoven, The Netherlands.
4 Department of Pharmacology and Toxicology, Maastricht University, Maastricht, The Netherlands.
Abstract
Vitamin B6 is a water-soluble vitamin that functions as a coenzyme in many reactions involved in amino acid, carbohydrates and lipid metabolism. Since 2014, >50 cases of sensory neuronal pain due to vitamin B6 supplementation were reported. Up to now, the mechanism of this toxicity is enigmatic and the contribution of the various B6 vitamers to this toxicity is largely unknown. In the present study, the neurotoxicity of the different forms of vitamin B6 is tested on SHSY5Y and CaCo-2 cells. Cells were exposed to pyridoxine, pyridoxamine, pyridoxal, pyridoxal-5-phosphate or pyridoxamine-5-phosphate for 24h, after which cell viability was measured using the MTT assay. The expression of Bax and caspase-8 was tested after the 24h exposure. The effect of the vitamers on two pyridoxal-5-phosphate dependent enzymes was also tested. Pyridoxine induced cell death in a concentration-dependent way in SHSY5Y cells. The other vitamers did not affect cell viability. Pyridoxine significantly increased the expression of Bax and caspase-8. Moreover, both pyridoxal-5-phosphate dependent enzymes were inhibited by pyridoxine. In conclusion, the present study indicates that the neuropathy observed after taking a relatively high dose of vitamin B6 supplements is due to pyridoxine. The inactive form pyridoxine competitively inhibits the active pyridoxal-5'-phosphate. Consequently, symptoms of vitamin B6 supplementation are similar to those of vitamin B6 deficiency.
I've actually wondered if having loading doses of B12 somehow affected my ability to use/store /process it as it was only 4 weeks after they finished when I dramatically went downhill and noticeably faster than I was before loading.
Perhaps it would be better to have a pen of some sort to deliver say 50 mcg B12 maybe 3 or 4 times a day rather than 1 mg dose every other day....
The tolerable upper limit is as high as 100 mg daily. From Harvard TH Chan School of Public Health (which sounds lika reliable source):
'UL: A Tolerable Upper Intake Level (UL) is the maximum daily dose unlikely to cause adverse side effects in the general population. The UL for adults 19 years and older is 100 mg daily, with slightly lesser amounts in children and teenagers. This amount can only be achieved by taking supplements. Even higher amounts of vitamin B6 supplements are sometimes prescribed for medical reasons, but under the supervision of a physician as excess vitamin B6 can cause toxicity. [1,2]'
Whilst I agree that your source appears reliable, I suspect that, in this case, it is out of date. Trouble is, it doesn't clearly identify its own last-updated date but I suspect before the paper I posted about.
Your site does say, though:
However, the use of separate B6 supplements (apart from the RDA amounts in typical multivitamin preparations) is inconclusive and not recommended.
If there is an issue with pyridoxine specifcially, it is likely that quite a bit of existing work will need to be re-visited to assess whether the form of B6 was properly taken into account.
I've got a book about setting daily recommended amounts of B vitamins and the studies mentioned in there only describe toxicity of B6 at doses of 50 mg and 100 mg a day over several months.
I've been taking 15 mg or so each day and no problems at all.
I think it's good to keep checking all these things but at the dose you are on I wouldn't worry.
If that book was published before 2017, or the authors missed it, that book won't include the information in the paper I linked to. That is, the form of B6, the vitamer, is an important factor in determining the maximum tolerable dose.
I would avoid pyridoxine in all but trace amounts. But I do agree that 1.4 milligrams is a low dose.
Thanks. I think I'm clutching ar straws as trying so hard to get on with life. I'm quite frankly sick of the 2 mile zone I'm stuck in and the total roller coaster still. I'm longing tk get on a train and see one of mg grown chikdres new house. Only a 35 minute train journey!! But a few changes and stairs. Journey I'd do regularly once.
I'm trying to tweak vitamins . Blood test due soon tk see if anything I can do to improve life.
I don't really know. Dont think so as tested negative on parietal cell antibody.
No alcohol
Little caffeine.
Having even more seeds and nuts
Eat a very good mixed diet. Am food dependant as feel grot if too many hours pass without it
(Aleays been like that) but magnified.
As st uck in so much . Batch cook . So when poorly a frozen own made soup ect.
I've not pushed at all since last injection on Wed. Balance. off today which is bad ad I thought that was over. Couldnt work as couldnt get there! My jobs have always been active. Mind is bright body and head very unwilling.
Symptoms have been all over the place in the last month .
Often people say they get worse before they get better - symptoms are a bit haywire as different parts of your body start to respond / heal at different rates. It is definitely a leaning curve and bumpy when you first start but as you get used to the information and routine it gets better and you can start to really understand what works for you. I have a friend who has a genetic factor that produces and migraine reaction to fluorescent lighting. She uses blindfold when she has to go somewhere like a seminar. But would be interesting to see whether regular frequent B12 improved your vision issues. I figure you can’t overdose so why not experiment with increases
Light sensitivity can be a symptom of low B12. I was very light sensitive and has dramatically improved with B12 injections but been injecting over 3 years.
I’m also on one every 2 weeks from quite a long time.
I've had regular b12 I jections for 16 months now.
I'm okay in daylight. Its artificial lights. Only have 25w halogen or candlescent bulbs in the house now. Miserable this time of year as often just cant operate as causes head pain and irritability as want t8 cook ect. and stagger walk. Also migraines ar times . Those are improving but I think its because I now know more what to avoid. Hospitals the worst and shops ans telephone (speaking) and cant even look at this mobile fir periods of time.
So on bed in a dim room from 5/6pm .
Was the tv and reading a no no too?
So glad it dramatically improved for you. Do you understand what in your brain caused it.? The neurologist and Gp dont know?? I wonder if you saw someone wiser??
I've tried treating it like an allergen. Hasnt worked. I do need to go in some shops si wear a deep brimmed hat and tinted glasses.
I've learnt to keep my eyes to the floor. So anything above shoulder height I miss!!
I stuck to the same small groceries shop si I know where things are. Ailes of tins I find make me feel ill. Sensory overload I think.
You give me hope that the light sensitivity can go. I hioe tih getting on okay now.
All light sources were bad for me. Winter sun was the worst. Watching TV yes. Reading books I’ve never done since school and I think wasn’t the worst, although gave me headaches but I believe from eye strain due to poor reading vision.
I was sensitive to all direct light but ok with sitting in room with lights on.
I never found the cause but only know it went away (or way better with B12 injections).
I’ve also been injecting for over 3 years down from weekly to once every 2 weeks for a long while now.
Yours sounds far worse than mine, I guess it depends on the individual as to how bad it is.
I’m sorry I don’t know much more about it other than it was part of a long list of other B12 symptoms so I assume for me it was always B12. I’ve always used hydroxo to inject, I don’t know if that matters.
I hope you find more answers as to what is causing it for you and hope it improves with the injections you’re having.
I believe there are other causes to light sensitivity but I never looked it up. Perhaps there’s other medical causes.
Edit: There’s something called Photophobia.......but I don’t know what the causes are.
So similar by I am worse in artificial light. Mine is definitely b12 deficiency or from one of my many falls due to it??
Yes frustrating when a neurologist can give no reasons.
I've had my eyes checked several times as my prescription went down 2 stages . At least that back to where it was.
Also seen specialist whi said eyrz healthy.
Got tinted glasses (at a price) as went for testing used mainly for dyslexia.
I also have hydrox b12 I jections.
15 months on.
Glad it got better for you
I'm seeing g a neuro Opthalomogist at some stage . NHS referral so will take a time. So many things with so free answers. I expect though if it goes I wony worry about the cause!
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