Hi everyone, I am 60 years old and have had ocd since childhood. My question is does anxiety trigger the ocd thoughts or vice versa. It seems like they bounce off each other. The anxiety is what bothers me the most. Then I guess depression creeps in from the anxiety.
I am currently on 100mgs of Anafranil for 30 years. A year ago . 5 Rexulti was added because of a ocd/anxiety flare. I have health anxiety which seems worse with age. Hang in there everyone and keep pushing forward!
I asked myself the same question, does anxiety trigger the ocd thoughts , or is it the reverse? I also asked myself a similar question in regard to normal fears. When I encountered a bear at a turn in the path (true experience), was I afraid because I thought the animal was dangerous, or did I think the animal was dangerous because I felt afraid? In other words, am I relying on my feelings to decide what is potentially dangerous, or is it my thinking that determine whether I feel fear or not?
I think it's a little bit of both. What I perceive elicits some spontaneous emotions in me (for instance, seeing a snake may alarm me), but my thinking can control my emotions to some extent (if, for instance, I realize the snake is non-poisonous or I keep a safe distance from it).
It may be the same with OCD. For instance, seeing some items out of order may spontaneously arouse some discomfort in me, but if I get used to it or think I can live in an environment not in perfect order, that discomfort will most likely subside. However, if I dwell on that discomfort and feel some relief when I rearrange things in what I consider a perfect order, I may foster an OCD behavior pattern.
Let me take another example. A thought pops into my mind: if I don't take excessive preventive measures, bad things will happen to me or others. Question: if I were in good spirits and had good self-esteem, would that thought occupy my mind as much? Maybe not. Mood does affect our thinking. The company of others sometimes prevents us from falling into an overly pessimistic thinking pattern. Other question: if I deemed that thought in question wasn't worth my attention, would it raise my anxiety so high? Maybe not. Our thinking affects our state of mind. If I believe it's not the end of the world if the worst-case scenario does happen, it may be easier to stay serene in spite of difficult circumstances.
Conclusion: "The prefrontal cortex (PFC) and the limbic system are two brain regions that work together to create a balance between logic and emotion. The PFC is located in the front of the brain and is responsible for logical thinking, while the limbic system is located in the core of the brain and is responsible for emotions and impulses (Google)."
Thanks for you great reply. It does make sense. Take care
OCD Cycle
Intrusive thought, image or urge>Attach meaning to it>Distress(fear, anxiety, disgust, shame, guilt, etc,)>Mental or physical compulsion to negate distress(in attempt to achieve certainty that doesn’t exist)>temporary relief(this reinforces the obsession). The cycle will continue to repeat and get more ingrained as it’s based on operant and classical conditioning unless the cycle is broken. The good news is that it can be broken with appropriate help.
Hello Coffeelove4444. How it works for me is I have an intrusive thought which triggers anxiety in few seconds after the thought has risen. I agree with you, anxiety is the worst. Without anxiety I can deal with the thoughts.
Phoenix, thanks for the reply. I agree . If the anxiety stays away OCD stays in the background.
I find it helpful if I allow feelings anxiety and OCD thoughts to exist in my consciousness without attaching to either ie not focussing on either and not pushing away. They are forms of energy impinging on my consciousness, that’s all. Energy eventually dissipates. Focusing or trying to not focus on them gives them more energy.
Peacefully co-edit with the feelings and thoughts in a neutral, non reactive way.
PS this is not easy
It takes a lot of understanding the condition and practice to be able to do this. It works for me
THL1, thanks for the reply, I am working on not panicking when I feel anxiety. I guess it is the racing feeling I hate.
When you say you ‘hate’ the feeling of racing, if you can peacefully co-exist with the ‘gate’, recognise it’s there in your consciousness, don’t focus on it, don’t push it away. It’s energy that has a finite existence. It will dissipate
Hi THL1, I guess I need to learn to not say OMG !! I’m feeling anxiety in my body. Is it the response prevention part of ERP that I need to work on? I think I need to put the work into therapy along with my medication. When I feel good I tend to not do my homework 😞
Yes response prevention means exactly that-somehow peacefully co-exist with the feelings/thoughts etc. don’t react, don’t engage, don’t try to push away.
The therapy and meds are also needed
Hi THL1, this is what I will work on. It seems like it is not easy but I will do the work. The Catastrophizing I do is unbelievable. One day at a time.
🙏🏼🙏🏼🙏🏼❤️❤️❤️
peacefully co exist I meant
hi there - I’m very new to this and have been living with what I believe is ocd my whole life. I’ve not had a diagnosis but I’m speaking to a psychiatrist. I have these intrusive thoughts that I find very disturbing and a huge wave of anxiety/shame/ fear comes over me and I feel I can’t breath. I’ve even started questioning my own reality in a way a has my entire past been a lie? Have you found medication works?
I don't want to replace the very insightful and thoughtful responses, but I just wanted to add a couple of points.
Anxiety coming from anywhere can actually make OCD worse, but OCD itself is a function of anxiety created in the brain.
The amygdala which regulates the fear response is extra active in someone with OCD and it is triggered by things that other people are not. Usually we get an flight/flight response from genuine threats that we have learned either through being taught or are innately within us - like an animal may have never seen a fire, but most will be afraid of it.
However through experiences those with OCD gain this fear response and feeling of unease from things that others don't. I am not sure how this relates to pure O but it is definitely clear in those like myself who suffer from contamination OCD and it is true for all, but not having experienced some forms I cannot really explain it.
How these 'irrational' responses are created are varied and would likely be unique to each person's experiences and how their OCD began, but, in any case the amygdala responds greatly to certain triggers and perceives a threat (now I understand this I wonder whether my first real OCD was triggered because a guy blew a raspberry in my ear and because it also gave me a shock at the same time of the feeling of contamination from bodily fluids it was more likely to then teach my brain that it was a dangerous situation).
Anyway, the main thing here is that although the amygdala can be triggered, it cannot be reasoned with, so the logical thinking part of the brain cannot reason with the amygdala (and that is why trying to talk yourself into healing is so ineffective). So the only way is to actually teach the amygdala that there was no danger.
It isn't as if the amygdala actually learns that nothing bad will happen in words (as I actually don't feel that anything bad will happen from my contamination as I don't fear germs, but to me it is a feeling of grossness, but the amygdala doesn't understand nuances) so instead the amygdala picks up on the actual actions that you take or don't take. If you act to mitigate the 'danger' then it will learn that the only way the danger was averted was because of the compulsions. So by taking the compulsions out of the equation, and the amygdala tires itself out and then realises you are still alive, then it has learned that this 'danger' is not in fact dangerous at all.
This is an issue however if you are having a lot of anxiety from other triggers (even just real life stuff or other parts of the OCD). Trying to teach your amygdala at that time to settle down and not react to a certain trigger is not going to work as well if it is unable to go through the calming and learning process the same.
I also think this is why anti-anxiety meds help as it likely quietens the anxiety response to other things, giving you a calmer brain to learn.
Just my take after learning about how the amygdala interacts with the rest of the brain.
I highly recommend watching this:
youtube.com/watch?v=0vhBkRi...
Dr. Reid has some really great videos.
A book that is well worth reading is The Emotional Brain by Joseph LeDoux. He's a brain scientist but this is aimed at the general reader. A lot of interesting information, and it does help to know how the brain works!
Thanks Sallyskins , I will definitely get a copy to read. I think a lot of anxiety comes from not understanding what is happening.
Thanks Weeping_Willow, it definitely is an exaggerated fear response. A heightened awareness can be good for some things but not when you are trying to relax. The darn amygdala 😡 It would be nice to remove it😂I will watch the videos. Many thanks.
Oh, maybe not. Imagine not having any safeguard? Yikes. lol
And you are very welcome. Phillipson is also awesome.
I haven't listened to all his stuff but he is featured on OCD stories a lot so worth a browse.
OCD Struggles
Struggling with OCD and Anxiety, I am new here
Every kind of OCD symptom imaginable-help
