My OCD is sabotaging my attempts to treat my anxiety and depression.

[Metastar]

Likewise, my anxiety and depression are preventing me from dealing with my OCD.

My psychiatrist is convinced that by experimenting with different drugs we can find a way to reduce my anxiety, and that the others will then become more manageable. My therapist seems to be at a loss.

My time at an OCD and Anxiety treatment center seems to have largely been wasted. Even OCD specialists with designed exposure therapy sessions couldn't break through. It seems that My ability to think about what I think about, including the ability to think about thinking about what I think about has made it so I 'neutralize' automatically.

I don't know what to do anymore. I've become unproductive at work and am then flooded with thoughts that it is dishonest to have any job, this then makes my mental health worse, and I am then even more unproductive.

I can't get myself to drive a car. I can't even get myself to think about seriously considering to drive a car. I am thrown into needing to resolve an existential crisis and analyse the foundations of morality, ethics, and metaethics. I'm tempted to become a nihilist just so I can decide that it is ok if I end up killing someone, but this then horrifies me to no end.

Out of all of the people that I have interacted with that have OCD I have never met anyone that deals with what I have. I have self-awareness about my self-awareness many levels deep and knotted up all together. My ethical frameworks that I have constructed that I hold myself to are contradictory.

I worked very hard to get a PhD in mathematics, even through the death of several family members, and now everything either seems pointless or overwhelming.

I almost want to just give up on trying new medications and therapy and quit my job. What can I do?

[WilliamG]

Hi Metastar,

I really resonated when you said you “think about thinking about what I think about.” My situation is not quite the same, but I thought I’d share. For me, I have days where I constantly narrate everything going on around me, and I become hyper-aware (to the point where it distances me from what’s actually going on). It can be frustrating. I will chronicle what I see, hear, feel, smell, etc. In addition to this, I chronicle my thoughts, too. So I think about my thinking.

[God-is-love3]

This sounds like you have reached the end of yourself as we all need to do and call out to God for help. He is the only one or thing that can truly give us meaning and purpose in life. We must admit that we are not the god of our life, but that God our Father and Lord Jesus are here and have always been here to help you overcome the obstacles in your life.

Have you considered this? Look at the amazing creation around us and within us. God is a mastermind creator that loves us dearly but we must seek him with all our heart and believe in Him. Don’t take my word for it either. Find a Bible or a Bible app and read the word. The old and New Testament together make up the full revelation of God that leads us to Jesus. He will give you freedom from these chains you are feeling.

God be with you.

[Metastar in reply to God-is-love3]

I consider myself devout. I go to church every Sunday. I pray and study scriptures.

It makes my scrupulosity worse. It makes me feel more like a hypocrite. I then need to deal with the thoughts that I don't really have faith, but that I am pretending to have faith. Then again, maybe I do have faith and I understand what it is like to not have faith and still act as if I have faith. I can continue this layer cake many more layers deep. It is as if I simultaneously believe and not believe.

I choose to believe in God, but I also recognize that the choice to believe in God was made through my free will. I could also choose to not believe in God. What is the underlying reason for me to believe in God? Do I do it out of a sense of duty? Am I afraid of what may happen if I don't? It would be wrong for me to believe in God for the wrong reason as this would be dishonest. At the same time if I don't believe in God, do I also not believe in objective morality?

What even is belief? It is distinct from knowledge. What is knowledge?

[PinetownTree in reply to God-is-love3]

I've only seen the things I've offered up to him in my prayers the last ten years but especially since the end of 2017 when I lost control of the OCD get worse

[Precious2023]

I can relate with what you are passing through, how it could be debilitating but don't give up, help will surely arrive...only if you believe. God uses various means to help us but above all "He sent His words to heal our diseases" Bible said His words are powerful....sharper than any two-edged sword....First thing you need to do is to lay hold on the Bible, then get fews verses that relate to your situation....Phil 4:8, 2 corin 10:5 etc, talk to God about how you are feeling and tell Him to help you.

Also, I have read here that pharmacogenetic test help to detect which drug works best for you....give it a go!

I wish you quick recovery!

[Metastar in reply to Precious2023]

I've read the entire Bible. I am well familiar with it. I go to church. I choose to believe in God.

This doesn't fix my problem. If anything, it makes my anxiety and OCD worse. A commitment to God means that I must hold myself to certain standards of conduct, both in mind and action. This means I must think about those thoughts and so on.

I've come to the conclusion that for this particular mental health issue it doesn't matter if God exists or not, or if I believe in God or not. All ontological and epistemological routes end up the same. Either nothing matters, or everything matters. When I act as if I believe in God, which I strive to do, I then have to deal with scrupulosity and the awareness that I am trying to believe contradictory things. It is impossible for me to feel as if I am being honest with myself.

During periods of time where I feel like I need an answer from God I can't get one. My OCD then tells me it is because I don't have enough faith, or I am not spiritual enough. That I should quit my job, head out into the wilderness, and fast until I starve myself to death or I get revealation on the matter. This is of course an extreme course of action that I cannot take. This then makes me think that I wish someone would just kill me, so I could see if there is an afterlife or not, and get it over with.

[Precious2023 in reply to Metastar]

I am sorry about what you are going through, it's not your fault that you are experiencing this, accept it's OCD playing out all the way on you believing in God.We are saved by His grace not according to our works or morality, self righteousness- our righteousness is in Christ.

I used to have scrupulosity before but it's faded away now through the help of God.

But Rom 8:1 delivers me each time OCD wants to play out by condemning me. Accept the OCD thought with "may be", or "may be not" and then continue with your faith (believing God for His words) or whatever you are doing. OCD always ring false alarm.

OCD can be demoralising by wanting or demanding 100% certainty, brain has to be retrained to be accepting risk -one can't be sure of every thing in this world 100%, show yourself love, accept and live in the present - Bible says "tomorrow will take care of itself" that worry can't add to our stature".

I pray that God himself will grant you peace and divine healing. Wishing you good luck!

[avoidingthebadthings]

I'm so sorry you're going through such a rough time. It's really overwhelming when one's mind won't stop analyzing and then analyzing the analysis ad nauseam. When this spiraling has happened to me, I call my psychiatrist and she prescribes a heavy-duty anti-anxiety med to knock me out. She sees it as a situation where I'm going to inadvertently blow up my life, and the best thing to do is to turn off my mind temporarily. It always works.

After you rest up and take a break from this spiral, it'll definitely help to get your anxiety under control with the right medication. Be kind to yourself (I know that's the hardest thing to do). Treat yourself like you would treat a best friend who is going through the same pain. Take the heavy-duty anti-anxiety pill and get as much sleep as possible. It will hopefully give you a respite from your brain spiraling out of control.

And not to worry about your time at the treatment center. Sometimes things don't work out the first time. No need to think about what hasn't worked. There are better times ahead. You're going to be okay. It's baby steps. One minute, one step, one day at a time. Deep breaths. Hang in there. We're rooting for you.

[Metastar in reply to avoidingthebadthings]

My current psychiatrist is working on prescribing different anti-anxiety medications for me to take. Unfortunately, they make it so I have a much harder time getting out of bed in the morning and getting to work. My depression is out of control in the morning.

Every single cocktail of drugs that I have been put on solves less than 10% of what I am dealing with. The Fluoxetine, Sertraline, Venlafaxine, Clonazepam, Escitalopram, Trazadone, and so on do absolutely nothing for the intellectual-emotional pain that lies beyond the pain associated with my current mood, or how well I can resist my OCD. Therapy likewise has only been able to help with the minor things.

I need to find a way to use my force of will to overcome this, like I have most of my life. Like when I worked and grinded away in the jobs I have had and when I was in graduate school. Unfortunately, I am burnt out, and it all seems pointless. Yet I still feel a sense of duty that I MUST overcome this. Then I get the thoughts that I have pushed myself too hard in the past and that I MUST not push myself too hard anymore. I am being tortured in limbo.

I'm cursed with knowledge that I wish I didn't have.

[PinetownTree in reply to Metastar]

It's worth reposting these first two paragraphs, it resonated with me

[PuertoRico]

Im related of what you are suffering. I know its hard because im dealing with almost the same situation. One day I woke up and I start doubting about my own existence, reality, even human shape and body. Ive been hyperaware of me and others, and that makes me feel anxious everyday. Ive got to a point that everything feels pointless and without joy. Thats my OCD talking… I don’t care what my OCD wants anymore. Im embracing anxiety and learning everyday how to live in the Present, even if my mind is trying to sabotage my life. You are more than your mind. You are putting a lot of pressure on yourself because of your thoughts. Instead of trying to avoid your thoughts, just remind yourself you cant control your mind, and whatever you think even if it is the most bizarre thing ever, just do the opposite of what you are doing, embrace that thought to the limit you think you will be faint with anxiety. Exposure yourself everyday, and contradict your own mind. Fear is a desease that will make you think you deserve to be alone or even secluded. On the contrary, you deserve to be free and live your life to the fullest. I know it doesnt make any sense… but does your OCD makes sense?

[Metastar in reply to PuertoRico]

I can't control certain parts of my mind, but I can control other parts of my mind. I can also control parts of my mind that oversee the parts of my mind that I use to control parts of my mind. However, the part of my mind that I do not control is always yelling at the parts of my mind that I do control. For the parts of my mind that I do have control over it is my duty to not relinquish that control, lest I react on destructive impulse.

I cannot just disregard my thoughts. I think before I act since it is my duty to do so. I go into a catatonic state when I sever the ability of my thoughts to influence my actions. This tends to happen after I have a severe panic attack.

Should I decide that I should kill someone because I have a thought that I shouldn't kill someone? No that would be absurd and evil. But then how do I deal with the thought that if I drive a car, I am choosing that it is ok to kill people? If I then choose not to think about the ethics of it, I also cannot drive a car because I am a danger to others by not being vigilant enough. It would also be bad if I have a panic attack and go catatonic while driving a car, which reinforces the thought that I have to choose to be willing to kill people in order to drive a car. It is an unescapable cycle. Now I shouldn't have the panic attack if I can convince myself it isn't such a big deal, other people can drive without thinking about this. I cannot however convince myself that it isn't a big deal for the mentioned reasons.

I have a PhD in mathematics. I pride myself on being able to think logically. Unfortunately, when it comes to certain things my OCD can make unreasonable things seem reasonable, and then the logical part of me automatically builds the line to the conclusions. I know that this is the result of my OCD, so I choose to create a metalevel of analysis for how I judge the premises and logic of the lower level of thinking. Now the OCD is smarter than I am, so I need a metameta level to analyse the metalevel. If I can find a fixed point where adding additional layers changes nothing then I can get out of it, or if what I am working on is not sufficiently important that I can wing it after a second pass.

I can't seem to overpower my thoughts, accept my thoughts, or avoid my thoughts. The thoughts are sometimes contradictory. Coming up with algorithms for how to deal with my thoughts requires me to already have algorithms for dealing with my thoughts. Trying to not deal with my thoughts leads to me needing to deal with my thoughts when the stakes are even higher.

I still can't get myself to work. I used to be able to escape from my thoughts by focusing on my work. Now I can't focus on my work because I can't focus on my work.

[TomFed]

Mate, not sure if that's the only mental quirk/obsession that you have, but sounds like a bookcase pure OCD. You need to find ways to get out of your own head. If therapy and meds aren't helpful (keep in mind, I wouldn't encourage you to discontinue it), go out to the nature, do some hiking, lie on the grass, have sex, learn some simple breeeething and meditation techniques. And one more, with biggest TNT potential to blow your mental walls - find somebody whom you could help, who needs help, go to volunteer in kids cancer hospital or some animal shelter - loving others is loving ourselves, and compassionate work sometimes does miracles in their truest sense.

[Metastar in reply to TomFed]

I've been diagnosed with OCD since I was in elementary school. It has largely become pure O OCD.

I don't drive a car, this drastically limits what I can do. I don't have a spouse or girlfriend. I intend to not have sex until I am married. I want to volunteer; in particular I want to get back into tutoring people in mathematics and physics, but I don't have the ability to do so since I moved for my job. I can go get some exercise since that helps some, but only up to a certain point. Martial arts were something that I once did and is something I am trying to get back into.

I have had cognitive behavior therapy for most of my life, and exposure therapy at a clinic. I know all about breathing exercises, mindfulness, meditation techniques, emotional regulation, self-compassion, and the whole collection of suggested techniques to get out of the cycles. I've also tried changing my diet, prayer, and virtually everything that friends, families, and doctors have suggested to me. Since none of them seem to 'fix me' I've been told that I must be doing them wrong. My OCD then tries to make sure that I do them correctly, no surprise it is even less effective.

Even if I could get out of my head, I get right back into it soon after, and even worse. My time that I dedicate to my mental health is time that is not being used for trying to get on top of my duties when I have fallen behind. Yet if I do not dedicate time to my mental health I fall apart and also fall behind on my duties. I am approaching the point where in order to function I have to shut down my desire to avoid suffering, and instead just take it. This means forcing myself to work as if I am going to hell if I don't. I stop eating and sleeping as I should. I've done this before, and I think I would rather be hospitalized and fired. I may even potentially become suicidal.

I'm on this health unlocked site because it was recommended to me by a therapist I talked with on the phone. I am getting desperate.

[Madlexy]

Sounds a lot what I go through I have mental compulsions and intrusive thoughts t/o day surrounding people who commit suicide or could just be ruminating over and over in my head until it feels right. I’ve had OCD since elementary school as well. Had the classical symptoms. First started out my 5th grade teacher said he got food poisoning and at the time I had a case of pneumonia, so it through me in this obsession of checking with my mom on anything I ate. I would have a full list of questions a to have her answer to reassure I was ok. Any ache or pain in my body I panicked. Wouldn’t shake anybody’s hands and compulsively washed my hands. Then it turned into turning lights off and on certain amount of times and saying a ritual aloud before every cartoon I watched. I would get panic attacks sleeping over my friends house and have to have my mom pick me up. Got ridiculed and teased in school for being mommas boy but it was clearly not the case. I never got diagnosed or treated until my early 20’s and now it’s manifested into intrusive thoughts and obsession with body image and weight. They added a diagnosis of body dysmorphic and possible eating disorder. I have a deep depression as well and fear being alone when I’m in that panicky state of mind and racing thoughts. I found that the NOCD organization has worked the best for me combating some of the mental stuff through ERP. I’m now finally getting extra help with a qualified therapist that treats BDD and eating disorders. I’m desperate enough to try Ketamine along with the Zoloft, Anafranil, Klonopin, and Trazadone I’m already taking. Although Klonopin doesn’t really work all that well. I have upcoming appt with the Ketamine clinic for initial assessment. Seems to be some valid research and positive outcomes with OCD/PTSD/ and Treatment resistant depression. God bless! I also go to church on a weekly basis and pray every night to give me strength to deal with OCD.

[Metastar]

I just spent 10 days in a hospital. I will now see how much of a help it will have been.

[fyio]

I would get a Cortisol test. Usually is two blood tests, one in the morning and a test in the Afternoon. Could show a big difference and maybe the higher levels in the morning compared to the afternoon level have something to do with your issues.