Implications of taking VitK, Vit D

[rockcats4]

I thought I read somewhere these 2 add to calcification. Does anyone have any thoughts?

[MaryF Administrator]

Please stick to just the D3, I do take K2 in addition, but I am not on Warfarin, it is usually not recommended K2 with that sort of medication, best to check with your GP. Good Vit D levels aid calcium but you do have to be on the correct dose. MaryF

bmjopen.bmj.com/content/6/4...

[hihannula in reply to MaryF]

Without k2-mk4 taken at the same time as d3 , you will develop calcification! K and D work together as a team, to move the calcium into your bones and not in your arteries or on your soft tissues.

[MaryF Administrator in reply to hihannula]

K2 is not recommended for patients on Warfarin, and as with any supplement, always check with your GP and or Consultant. health.clevelandclinic.org/... There is a really good book called Eat on Warfarin which is very good on diet and how to keep levels steady. MaryF

[Ray46]

Plenty of science about needing K (or K2) with D otherwise you get arterial calcification. However, if you are on Warfarin you are always going to be K-deficient by-design so you can't avoid it. The calcification is a known side effect of warfarin.

In general on warfarin you shouldn't take _any_ supplements with doctor's approval. Sometimes mine says take D because your levels are low, other times they are fine so I don't.

[Zamalek in reply to Ray46]

Could you please explain to me.Warfarin causes arterial calcification, so we will have hardening of the arteries whatever we do. O.K. But we are vit.K deficient, so need some dark green veg. to balance this a little. If we have low levels of Vit.D, we will be what? weak bones?but Vit.D can cause calcification can,t it.I have low levels I know (of Vit.D.), found taking supplements caused INR to increase, well that's an on going see-saw, isn't it.

I didn't realize I would automatically get hardening of the arteries!!! Bother.

[hihannula in reply to Zamalek]

I’m so full of calcification, that the lab technologist didn’t even have to run the dye through me to see how much or where the calcification was. It was literally everywhere he ran his Doppler. Because there is so much, it is now affecting how my heart beats so they are trying to decide if I get a pace maker or an ablation. One thing after another. It’s a miracle what our bodies are able to endure. I feel like cracking up most days, but what good would that do. One hour at a time.. Bless us all.🙏🏻🙏🏻🙏🏻

[Zamalek in reply to hihannula]

That's horrifying, I had no idea, always concerned about the INR and bleeding or clotting. How many years have you been taking Warfarin, I have been on it 13 years now, perhaps that explains the veins spreading everywhere on my legs, perhaps finding new routes as many are perhaps calcified!!

[hihannula in reply to Zamalek]

I’ve been on warfarin since 2002 for APS , then in 2006 I had my mitral valve replaced with a mechanical valve and it was then they discovered I had already accumulated a serious amount of calcification everywhere. Within the 10 years after my mechanical valve was installed, the annulus (the area that connects the mechanical valve to the human tissue) was now densely calcified and is causing me heart problems...breathing, circulation, severe headaches , exhaustion from lack of oxygen to the brain and other organs. I can run my fingers up and down my legs and my breasts and feel large calcified nodules. Very painful. What is a person to do. One thing fixes one condition, but the fix causes 2 more conditions. One step forward, 2 steps back. That’s the dance I’ve been dancing for far too long, just like many, if not all, who belong to this group. It wouldn’t hurt to get a scan done. 💕🙏🏻

[Zamalek in reply to hihannula]

Thank you for your replay and I am sorry to hear of your ongoing health problems.Yes medication helps one condition and may cause another. I assume that calcification occurs in the veins and arteries? is that the case, and if so, then this is different from the hardening of the arteries, and cholesterol levels?

[hihannula in reply to Zamalek]

Unfortunately, I have calcification in veins, arteries as well it is deposited on most of my soft tissue, that’s why I can feel the hard painful lumps on various parts of my body. As far as cholesterol, triglycerides etc, believe it or not, my results are in the normal range. So my problem isn’t cholesterol, it has more to do with the calcium attaches to and in my tissues from 18 years taking warfarin and no vitamin k!

[Zamalek in reply to hihannula]

So why aren't we advised to take Vit K supplements? apologies for being a bit slow with all this.

[Ray46 in reply to Zamalek]

We aren't advised to take VitK supplements because Warfarin actually works by depleting your vitK levels so you cant make clotting factors, that's why I wrote that we are K deficient "by design" (it's not a perfect design, calcification is one of the flaws...). Vitamin K is actually the antidote for warfarin.

Now, we _can_ take vitK supplements (on doctors' advice) and there are sometimes reasons to do this, but it won't actually affect your vitK levels because your warfarin dose will have to be adjusted to compensate for the K you are taking, to ensure that your INR stays in range and that you remain K-deficient (those are essentially the same thing).

[Zamalek in reply to Ray46]

Thank you for that clearity. So hit and miss if we get calcification I guess.