Statement of Reason

Today I recieved my Statement of Reason from the court. I was led to believe that this would inform me how they came to the decision that the ATOS doctor was right and I was not entitled to ESA. They only provided a quarter of what went on in the room and I am livid. The tribunal judges and doctors are no better than the government and ATOS, just there to rip off the disabled whilst living in luxury themselves. I am just so angry. This was not a viable reasoning, not worth the paper it was written on and I think I may well use it to light next years bonfire. But I have to pass it on to Welfare Rights and see what he advises. He may advise taking it further to turn it over and maybe get what they owe me for the year they put me through hell. I just do not know. But as yet I have no intention of applying for ESA again unless I absolutely have to. Not sure I am ready to fight the good fight right now. There, rant over. Accept to say I would love to put The judge, the tribunal doctor, ATOS doctor and good old DC in the same room and have a good listen to what they are saying about us all. Government recognising FMS, what a load of ruddy tosh, just an excuse to shut us all up xxxxx

30 Replies

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  • you are right it is a disgrace , do they not see us as people ? . Hopefully welfare rights can help. there was an article in my regional paper the other day , so many people being turned down or taken off the benefits they deserve warm hugs and positive thoughts to you x

  • I am not bothered whether he can do anything or not, but it would be nice to get back all I lost since July 2011. It just makes me so so angry xxxxx

  • Hope the welfare rights can help you. I know it's easier said than done keep fighting xx

  • I have benefits coming in in the way of carers allowance for daughter and Income for me and hubby to top it up, but it is not the point, as far as I am concerned if I qualified to be on Incapacity benefit for 20+ years then how did I suddenly not qulaify. xxxxx

  • I've not been through this yet, although I'm getting that way. Just thinking that I will be recording the whole interview just to cover the silliness of these people.

  • Just remember, not everyone loses, there are people who get straight onto ESA as did my daughter, from IB to ESA on the form filling alone, no problem and was then awarded her DLA indefinite. There are people who Have to go all the way to tribunal and win, some lose. But if I ever have to claim ESA again I will be more than ready for them. I wish you luck in everything from the bottom of my heart hun xxxxx

  • Oh God this scares me. I am waiting my Tribunal date, it should be within the next few weeks so I'm told. So nervous & worried about it. I need to win it. I cant work, my own Dr even admits that. I have loads of Medical Notes for back up & hope they really look at them and really think hard & that they are dealing with a human being.

    If I loose I will just have to start the fight all over again. Its terrible to think that I worked 30 years of my life, paid my taxes & National Insurance & I have to beg the government to help me in my time of need.

    It really is a ridiculous scheme the Government/Atos are running! It makes me so angry.

    I hope you dont give in & the Welfare Rights help you & you continue to fight on, its the only way we are going to win by keeping on fighting for our rights as humans. Sometimes when we are so ill & sore I think to myself I would'nt let an animal sufer what I am suffering.

    Take care.

    Hugs

    Jackie

  • For my daughter going from IB ot ESA was a doddle because of the unpredictability of her illness, the fact it cannot be treated and there are no warning signs for when she is going to take ill. But for me after 20+ on IB it all went t**s up and the fight began. After reading the statement of reason the judge has only noted down key things, like the fact I had to stand up, how long I stood etc. The fact that I became breathless and made me feel like I was faking it even though I have COPD and Emphysema(which was not even mention by them)and even talking leaves me out of breath. They never mention that I was shaking uncontrollably because of anxity and depression. They mentioned that I claimed to have hearing problems yet heard them throughout, no mention of me backing up my clima by saying I heard them because they were not all talking at once and the fact we were in a quiet room etc. I could go on but it makes me so angry. When I went to the tribunal I looked on it as all I had seen on here at the time had won so I thought I would be okay. And then others looked at the fact I had lost and worried and then they won. I think it depends if the judges and doctors partners actually made them a coffee on that day. But when the time comes to claimm ESA again I WILL WIN xxxxx

  • Hi Everyone,

    I had my tribunal 2 weeks ago and to be honest I felt like I had committed murder-I felt like a criminal and I knew after 2 questions put to me by the doctor how it was going to end.

    I lost my appeal after 13 months of waiting. Everything I said about how my condition affected me was twisted to suit themselves. I also have facet arthritis in the spine and when I told them I couldn't sit for more than 10 min without having to stand and move about I was told "standing up doesn't help your pain" how would he know.

    I had 9 points from the atos (dontgiveatoss) medical for not being able to walk and needed 6 points. I wasn't awarding anything on the mental descriptor- had my anti d changed 3 times since May and that because I hadn't attempted suicide for some years he didn't think I had severe depression - if that's the case why is my doctor prescribing me anti d,s ? My welfare rep said he thought they had refused me was they didn't have to pay me 13 months back pay-the money isn't the issue-its being told you are well enough to work then being told by the jobcentre you cannot sign on for jsa because your are not well enough-Id laugh but Im so depressed at the mo I don't find it particularly funny.

    So I am about to put in another claim for esa -round and round in circles, but this time I m not going to get so stressed out about it as I know realize this is what they want!! take you round in circles & find you well so they dont have to pay the back pay until you're worn down and eventually give up.

    By the way the tribunal was held in a room that resembled a courtroom with a doctor and a judge-very intimidating but don't let them do that to you, stand your ground and don't let them belittle you. Make sure you have notes on everything you disagree with about the atos medical and remember they are basing it on when you filled in the claim for esa not now-anything you have been prescribed or done (ie adaptions) since will not be taken into. consideration.

    Best wishes xx

  • I could have put another claim in hun but did not bother as I had a way out by claiming cA for my daughter and getting top up of IS. But a time my come when I have to reclaim ESA. I am just waiting to see now if Welafare Rights thinks I have a right of appeal against the judges decision. Like you had I won they would have had to give me back pay from July 2011 to October 2012, and if they do that they are not saving money. In a way I hope the Welfare Rights guy does find an error of law as if I appeal that it will not bother the benefits I get now. But I know I will have to go through all this again when they start faffing around with DLA. And yes this room resembled a court room on the outside, on the inside just a square room, three desks right in the middle, a judge who looked like she had had sour plums for breakfast, a doctor who took on the role of rottweiller and I was the bone, and an usher who conveniently appeared from nowhere as I was getting in the lift. But that cream room with bright lights was so disorientating I could barely think, the brightness alone triggered the cluster headaches. I wish you well for you new claim xxxxx

  • apple against the that bloody decision .get the solicitor and fight with them.

    take care darling.

  • Well if if all goes to plan I may just get them to decide I was entitled prior to being forced to claiming IS and CA and get is all back. I can only hope xxxxxx

  • hi,im just waiting for my reasons off the judge they have to tell you why they decided on what they did! dont give up fight it hunny..i am retired and i think they are fobbing people off till the PIP rule comes in,but if we are quiet they will win..plus i have been told the tribunal panel are sometimes made up from atos employers!..how long did you have to wait for the reply off judge? i was told it will be 12 weeks! thanks xxxx

  • I think I waited about 4 wqeeks and they have not actually given a reason for their decision

  • hi,well 4 weeks isnt bad,so i will wait and see what it says ,,i keep you posted x

  • Hope you get it as quick as I got mine xxxxx

  • Hiya Ozzygirl64

    I have to agree with you. The doctor who was on the panel was ancient & looked like he,d swallowed a wasp lol - I know a lot of older doctors don't believe in Fibro and I m sure they set it up like a court to intimidate you - I felt terrible yet I d done nothing wrong!!

    When I was first diagnosed ( 1997 ) I had seen numerous doctors and eventually got to see a rheumatologist who finally diagnosed the fibro & arthritis.

    I have just requested dla forms as my welfare rep said I should claim that as I got the 9 points for not being able to walk far. I get breathless too I know how you feel hun & have spent the last 2 hours filling in the new esa claim form , had to leave it as Im tired now.

    Its really not fair that sick people are being treated like this. There is an online petition to get gps to do the medicals again - I hope it works, I don't fancy going through all this stress again but how am I supposed to find a job (nevermind try to sign on for jsa-no chance unless I lie )where I can work what hours I can due to my illness, I most certainly wouldn't find such an understanding boss who who would put up with that!!!

    This time I m a little more prepared having gone through it before & I have a wonderful new doctor too so fingers crossed.

    luv n hugs xxx

  • So true on these older doctors. I get high mobility and low care DLA, I am just waiting for the PIP forms to start dropping through the door. No from my understanding this PIP is to aid those in work etc etc, thus keeping them in work. The DWP say getting carers allowance is as agood as working and the staff there can see no reason why I would lose mine when the time comes. Shall I hold my breath with the thought of ATOS in the chair, I think not . DWP staff told me when I had my IS interview that no employer in their right mind would take me on especially with me having lung disease too. I am thinking the government should survey the DWP staff to get a better picture. But then again if they did not like it DC would sack them!!!!!!

  • Hi Ozzygirl, i was wondering where you'd gone. sorry to hear your fight goes on. Ive got that pleasure to come again sometime in the future. Grumpy is right, we are going round in circles but getting nowhere. I thought I'd got myself sorted with my 2nd ESA claim. I got it all backdated (the shopping has been great,lol) but on the third payment day...nothing in the bank. Had to phone them. It was to do with me not saying that I stopped my permitted work. they should have sent me some forms to fill in, but guess wot?? they havent...AGAIN.Im still waiting for those. I hope i dont have to play cat and mouse with them again.my monthly contract phone bill for the time around when i was trying to get sorted, was £28. i usually pay £10.50 so id gone over my allowances by £17.50. and guess wot? it was all phone calls to those b*****ds. Why is it that EVERYONE in the whole country knows this stupid system is grossly f***ed up and costing the taxpayer millions in appeals, except david cameron and chums?? How much longer can it go on? What the hell is he playing at? But as long as this stupidity goes on, I'll keep fighting and re applying for ESA,coz Ive been ill for 30 years and im not going to get well enough to work any time soon, so cant claim JSA. I really believe that they think we're all stupid enough to not claim and fight, but just sit back (in the dark and cold) and starve to death. We are ill NOT stupid. GRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR............... You go girl, givem a bit of Ozzy attitude. Im with you all the way. Good luck. xx

  • I dread to think how much is actually costing in the long run. I bet it is alot more than had they just left us as we were. I handed my SoR over to Welfare Rights today so I may get a call in the next day or so. I mean I am not asking them to put me back on ESA, but it would be nice if I can get back what this government stole from me. And as for phone bills I have just had my landline bill in. I have never gone over £18 for calls in a quarter before, this one with all the DWP calls, was £76 for calls alone. I wonder if send them the bill will they pay it! DC does not give stuff what it is costing as long as his wallet and his bank account are full to bursting. And I think ATOS docotrs are amazing, they have taken 26 years of illness including one that will eventually kill me, and cured me in 42 minutes flat. Why is it a touch of sarcasm always makes me feel a bit better lol. I hit back by claiming carers allowance for my daughter, I care for her when hubby is asleep as that is when I am awake, so it makes sense. They then had no choice but to pay us Income Support to top it up. But if they start messing that up then I will hit them with an ESa claim again. WHichever way they go I will be waiting. I wish you well in getting your money sorted, what a palaver xxxxx

  • Hey Ozzy, gud to hear from you. ur rite,david cameron needs a massive dose of reality, followed by a healthy helping of morality, coz he DOESNT give a stuff as long as he's comfy. I think all posh, well off people dont have a clue how "us ordinary folk" live. they've had it handed to them on a plate all their life. if you tell them, they dont believe you. cameron can go on about how his disabled dad built up a successful bizniz and got stuck in, all he likes, but not all of us have the opportunities they had. I dont know of any politicians or bankers that grew up in Londons tower block estates or anywhere else like that (init!!). Its like the posh kid taking sweets from the poor kids, coz he can, and when his teeth rot, mummy and daddy pay for the best private treatment, and probably dont even know how much theyre paying. As you have gathered...I F***in hate posh rich t**ts, lol. I could go on like this for hours, so I'll shut up now !! Hope you and your family are ok. Ohh, AND ANOTHER THING...before i go... why arent phone calls to ESA/DWP free?? We havent got money to waste chasing them. I'll shut up now.............................................xx

  • Calls to ESA/DWP ARE free of you have the energy to get to their office and use their phone lol xxxxx

  • Been there, tried that. Our branch in Plymouth has every number for everything else but ESA. Dont know why. i think they just like to be awkward to people on other benefits except the ones that they can get rid of you into a job. Sick and disabled people dont matter. xx

  • That is bad that they do not have a number for ESA, I am guessing so you cannot go down and tell them what you think of them. Don't worry if I am late replying to you if you reply, I am mid cluster headache and I have the screen zoomed in as high as I can go here. Hubby said 'how old are you Lin? 3?'. But I know what he means and he was not being horrid. It is the only way I can see it right now.I need to move away for a few minutes xxxxx

  • Ooooo, that sounds nasty, hope you feel better soon. Did u mean go to ESA and have a go? they are attached to the JC but the only way you can make contact is letter or phone (0845....) and u cant trust your mail getting to them, or they say they didnt recieve it. lying b****rds. we are totally at their mercy, but they wonder why they get verbal abuse. done that as well,lol.xx

  • Like yours ours is all linked, at Job centre. But ours has a phone the public can use. I think all JCs should have the facility for each and every department whether it be ESA or JSA etc. I just cannot believe you do it that way. I can if I have to but it means me walking to the JC and I won't do it unless I really have to. I do not think they would actually have ESA staff at the offices, more likely to be in some big city somewhere. But I do wish you all the luck in the world. Be back in a bit I need to go take head pills AGAIN xxxxx

  • Hi Ozzy, I phoned ESA today and they called me back at 4.20. I should be paid by Friday. I said to the woman, "Friday? my electric will have gone by then". I was told different info to that i was given before. They're all a bunch of lazy, stupid, lying, uncaring b****rds. I dont trust any of them. Its ok tho, its only poor people's lives they're playing with.................GRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR. Hope you've had a reasonable day.xx

  • And that is why I never balame the staff at JCP, they are just doing the bidding of others. So I am always calm with them, it is the main ones I ripped into when the ATOS miraculously cured me. Kind of like the cold caller who gets your attention with a product and then the company faff you around so much you end up going elsewhere. The ones in the local offices are only the little guys and they have to do what the system tells them to. As for today I have had so many cluster attacks I do not know whether I am coming or going and it is making me feel really ill on top pof the fibro & COPD flare ups. But we carry on don't we, we have no choice. I have to go back to see GP next week for more Sumatriptans and also preventatives which could me another 4 pills added to my script, but hey ho, at least I will still be here tomorrow. Out tomorrow and not sure how I will manage lol xxxxx

  • I'm still waiting for my statement of reasons and the judges notes but I wouls mention that the whole air of the tribunal was totally different from my previous one. They start out saying we are independant and not here to trick you etc. but that is exactly what they did do this time around. I was in a lot of pain and they actually got me so confused I was answering questions based on how I was at my 1st assessment instead of the 2nd. I think the DWP or the gov have realised how much they have been paying out in backpay that they have now got to the tribunal service too, so they can avoid paying it. I have just been turned down for DLA too following a visit from an ATOS Dr, he claimed he knew all about Fibro and was nicey nicey to my face. Still waiting for a copy of his report too but I know exactly what it will say, the exact opposite if our conversation and my application form like my ESA assessments! The application was filled out using the B&W guides and approval from CAB who have been asissting me since my 1st claim was refused. Both my Drs (I see my GP and his son) are lovely and fully supportive of my claim, they are both horrified at the way the disabled are being treated currently. I, like the rest of you, must continue to fight as we have no option making ourselves sicker whilst we do so. Surely these idiots must eventually realise if we could work and look after ourselves we would if only to get away from all the never ending circles they keep sending us in.

  • I see either my normal GP or his son, and they are both supportive too. I went through the nice to your face bit in the tribunal and then the docotor fired questions at me so fast and I got so confused. I was losing my breath because of the lung disease which in turn made me panic so I followed that with an anxiety attack. My GP and his son are like yours, appalled at the way we are being treated. But what can we do except keep fighting. xxxxx

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