Well,at last the statement of reasons from my ESA tribunal has arrived. All I can say is, it's the biggest load of rubbish I've read and when I got to the judges comments, I couldn't even understand them. The spelling is atrocious and he's obviously written them as he typed them ( some of you may remember from my previous post that he typed all through my tribunal ) so they literally are in note form. I know I have a foggy brain, but even without that they are virtually unreadable. My husband and daughter have both read them and can't make head or tail of them. They even started off by getting my age wrong.
He has more or less said that everything I told them was lies and that the pain,fatigue,ibs etc etc is not as bad as I say it is, so there's no reason why I can't go to work. Apparently I could do clerical work, but elsewhere he has said I can't stay at a work station for very long! It just goes on and on and it certainly isn't me that's lying. I waited 12 months for that tribunal so do they really think I would do that if I wasn't genuine? I think not. No normal person would put themselves through it and wait all that time.
I just don't know what to do next. I wish I could challenge it, but I know that they have to get something wrong that is a point of law and I'm not sure whether any of it is. The way it is written makes fibro out to not be real and he has actually stated that there is no root cause of the condition. Well, in my book all conditions have a root cause -they must have - it's just that nobody has yet discovered what the root cause of fibro is. I wish I could challenge it, just on the point that they are obviously disbelieving when we know the world health organisation recognises it. Is there anything I can do?
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Deefer
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I feel your pain but please don't give up.apparently there is an ESA/DLA group on Facebook .its a group offering advice on how to fill in the forms,appeals etc.
You however need someone to invite you in.there is someone called Vooney I think,who knows more about it and is a member.try look her up.
I am sorry to read this, but totally understand how you feel, being in the same position as yourself.
I waited 8 months for my Tribunal appeal, which was turned down. It took them two months to send my SOR and when I read them wondered if it was actually me they are talking about.
Like yourself I am made out to be a liar, more or less making up the problems I have. Apart from the obvious Fibro problems, I do have other conditions, including dual epicondylitis in both arms. I have had every treatment going, and gone through 6 physiotherapists and even surgery to no avail.
Yet the judge at my tribunal says I could mobilise myself further with a walking frame, or propel myself in a manual wheelchair. I suppose I could if I had bionic arms fitted.
In my case I wrote a 4 page letter to Welfare Rights, explaining each point of the SOR I disagreed with, or found to be false (although these statements were listed as fact by the judge), and sent it with my case notes and the SOR, asking for advice.
I was told there is no right to appeal to upper tribunal, you must ask for permission, from - the judge who did your tribunal!! Like that is going to happen.
As you so rightly say, you can only request permission to appeal if there is an error in a point of law, which I am told there isn't. I am told that the judge gave the reasons she failed my appeal, and justified that. Even though she 'justified' it with a bunch of lies, that seems not to matter.
Unless there is an error in the law, we haven't a leg to stand on, and nowhere else to go as far as I can see.
I think the only option open is to find a solicitor willing to take the case under Legal Aid, which you are entitled to for Upper Tribunal, but again if there is no error in the law, you would be lucky to find a solicitor willing. I have phoned four today and all have refused me.
Hope you have more luck, but at least you know it isn't just yourself being victimized. We are all treated the same way, as though we are making up our disabilities. I only wish I were, as I'd much rather go to work, and earn a wage than live on the pittance we are allowed.
you can ask to have the appeal re heard on the basis that they have stated you can use a walking frame or manual wheelchair when you can't, I was able to have one re heard after they "incorrectly" stated things about me.
Just been reading your posts this even in bed cos I'm having one of my bad days and have got a gastric bug which is just making me more of a cripple than I already am. I can't believe the problems were all having with benefits. Fibro is a recognised condition so they should therefore accept it. It really upsets me to think there's nothing we can do. The law system with legal aid changed in April this year and is no longer a available to everyone unless you have special grounds. If you are disabled you will be able to get it and maybe some other special grounds but you will need to check. What is anyone suppose to do. I work full time and it kills me. I get up every morning at 5.30am travel into london by train then across london by tube to my office. I can't get a job that pays what I get now where I live so have to commute which is killing but what else can I do. Our government should realise what's happening and sort it out. Anyone fancy getting a petition together? We could at least try, every little helps. Hope you manage to get sorted and if I hear of anything will let you know. Take care xx
This is worse than I thought, you have no hope of having your case looked at again if you have to get permission from the same judge who handled your case to begin with.
I though you could appeal to UT based on the reasons given in the SOR. How can anyone appeal to UT on a point of law when no law has been used to refuse your appeal to begin with? Unless that in itself is a point of law, appeal on the grounds no law or legal reason has been given to deny your appeal.
We must get to the bottom of or pretty soon or we will all be classed as fit for work with no legal right to dispute judges personal decisions. We need to find out how to submit an appeal based on legal reasons so a tribunal must look at your case on that basis.
If a request for an appeal to UT has been made, and then a new claim for ESA is put in, will they pay basic rate ESA while the UT appeal is proceeding. Either way I think we all need to know where we stand with this. I don't!
I agree we should form some kind of group and get as many people on our side, MPs the lot. I wonder if there are any solicitors with our condition, maybe they can help! I had to go back to work because of what happened with my claim but these days I'm really struggling to work but still go through the motions to earn the money. I would be more than happy to help if I can, just let us know and you'll have my 100% support. Take care xx
Thanks all of you. I have re-read the notes and now realise that not only did he get my age wrong he has also got the date wrong that I first went onto IB. The date he put was actually the date I finished work and I didn't go onto IB until two years later, so he obviously didn't read my forms properly in the first place. I did have my MP involved , but they totally ignored the letter that he sent them - I think they are starting to ignore MPs because so many of us are turning to them for support. Basically, they ignore everything just to make sure one more person doesn't get benefits.
I saw on the news the other day that the government are congratulating themselves for getting the number of benefit claimants down and more people into work. They must know really that this is because there are people like us who can't claim benefits and can't work so don't appear in the official figures. Perhaps we should form that group and the first thing would be to get some idea of how many people are in that situation and then present them with the reality of the figures. Also, the general public are given biased views on benefit claimants in the newspapers - perhaps we need to put the other side of the story as well. I for one did work ( and had a good job ) but eventually just couldn't carry on. Even if I got the benefits they would be no where near the salary I earned. I'm just so tired of being treated like the dregs of the earth.
I have been though the ESA nightmare. I applied when I was told to by JS staff as I have a multitude of health problems. After 4 weeks they stopped paying me because they claimed I had not made enough NI Payments in the last 2 years. It took me 6 months to get the HMRC to agree that I was fully paid up and another 6 weeks to be paid my back payments (which they put in the wrong closed account 10 days later to get in the account I already told them about) in the meantime I had to go to the ATOS assessment which is a box ticking exercise I fully explained my conditions and was given 6 points you need 15. I was going to CAB and they did help a lot as did BLF and put forward an appeal. You must get this done ASAP as you are on a time limit. I also had a letter from my cardiologist explaining my heart and lung conditions in detail 6 weeks after my ATOS meeting. I sent this to DWP explaining this is further evidence explaining my conditions in more detail from my consultant. Now, any evidence you send has to be relevant to before your ATOS meeting as any new condition after is not taken into account. I did get my originals back with a letter saying that this will be added to evidence for appeal.
I had my appeal last Wednesday and it was found in my favour after 10 minutes mainly due to the letter from my cardiologist and the doctors and judges questions about all of my conditions and how I am coping. I have been awarded under the support ESA Schedule 3. Regulations 29 Exceptional circumstances and 35 Certain claimants to be treated as having limited capability for work-related activity.
Conditions that do not take the box ticking as the only condition to grant my ESA.
I did call the DWP the next day to ask what happens now and they have told me that they will need to agree and then they will send me information to what they decide on. This can be at least 5/6 weeks.
I did get in touch with my MP while I was not getting my money and asked them to intervene the next day I was told the money is being granted but I think that was more coincidence.
The government is trying to reduce payments and some of them I do agree with, however just allowing under qualified people tick boxes that are designed to save money is not acceptable.
When you go to your appeal do not feel that you have no voice take someone with you if they ask about breathing explain that you have sat down for however long but if you had just walked to the court it would be very different. You have very little to lose by putting your case forward in a polite way. Wear clothes that you would wear that are easy to put on as they will pick up on this.
I do have the information regarding ESA in more detail 44 Pages and also how to deal with ESA appeals that I am happy to pass on to anyone that requires it by email
The way I see it is, the Tribunal Service is now behaving in the same way as Atos & DWP. Replacing medical evidence with their own personal opinions to declare you fit for work. The TS has become a kangaroo court system which denies your right to justice. No judge is going to rule against his or her own decision, I could be wrong but I doubt it.
I am all for forming a group to fight against this sham of a legal system so count me in.
Last friday I had my esa tribunal which I had waited for well over a year for and I failed . It was an awful experience I was made to feel worthless and it felt like a rerun of a wca . I suffer from fluctuating conditions im bipolar and have arthritus , now im in a real downer . pleased i found this forum will contact again soon .
Oh Tinkaloo, I feel for you. It's taken me weeks to get on the right track again. Please call the tribunals service and ask for a statement of reasons and the judges comments - you need to see them. Be warned though, mine took an age to arrive and then ,as you will have seen from my post, it was utter rubbish! But do check it through thoroughly and get someone else to read it too in case you miss anything. There may well be a point of law that you can argue your case with. Gentle hugs x
Hi everyone can I ask where abouts you all from please reason for this is I'm from Aberdeenshire and I was one of the lucky ones to win my court appeal I went with my social worker who represented me in the room I had someone called judge Scott and a specialist doc I was glad social worker was there cause I kept answering all the questions wrong within 5 mins I was told your free to go I can tell u won ur appeal today I was in shock thought Aberdeen was gonna be hard but boy sat in my wheelchair so confused by it all after all the horror stories what on earth is going on its mad I'm so sorry to hear all your struggles guys its nuts what we all go through to fight for benefits my heart with u has anyone experienced Aberdeenshire tribural work court too and if so what has ur experience been gentle hugs to u all I've been told even though judge Scott wrote to leave until 2 yrs July according to social work the benefits arnt caring will call me in again it doesn't matter what judge does or says in my letter if they want to bring u in again they can that's awful they can over rule the judges letter if they want what on earth so looks like fight no finished yet but my social worker said she fight with me all the way we arnt liars or frauds omg min stinking attitude just like hospital staff here KEZA x
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