What next?

[Gabriella89]

Hi all, I’ve just found out my 2nd FET has failed and looking for any advice what to do next. We had 3 PGS normal embryos, 2 out of 3 have now failed to implant. I’ve had ERA, EMMA, Alice tests, a Hysteroscopy abs HyCoSy and everything was normal. I’ve got high NKC but had treatment with an IVIG drip before each transfer. I’m also taking folate for MTHFR. The one embryo we have left is a 3bb. Does anyone have any ideas? Should I go straight into transfer number 3 or have a break? I just want to keep going...

[Saira21]

Did the clinic say why implantation failed .. it'll be good to understand the why's before going on.

[Gabriella89 in reply to Saira21]

They just say bad luck. But the stats say there is a 60-70% success rate for every PGS normal embryo so to have two failed either I’m seriously unlucky or we must have missed something??

[Saira21 in reply to Gabriella89]

I hate to hear when they say it's sheer luck they are doctors if it was luck we wouldn't be visiting them.Dr, said to me age is a factor sometimes we beat the age and come out shining am 42.

I'd transfer the left over embryo good luck !!

[Gabriella89]

Thanks Saira21 ive just booked to see a different doctor at a different clinic to get a 2nd opinion.. there has to be more to it than just back luck... thanks for your reply - best of luck to you too x

[Running79 in reply to Gabriella89]

I agree it’s more then just being unlucky!

It’s interesting about the stats on PGS tested embryos - we’ve had it done and ours were abnormal, the HFEA give the procedure an amber on their traffic light system which means that more data is basically needed and I can’t remember seeing stats on there.

I know that embryos that have been tested arn’t a dead cert they will work, I think you are sensible changing consultant, we did this after our first round as I didn’t have any real confidence in them

[Gabriella89 in reply to Running79]

Hi Running79 - are you doing another round now? Will you do PGS testing again? I’m tempted to start from scratch at ARGC in London and just do a fresh transfer without PGS..

[Running79 in reply to Gabriella89]

We did a third round which was donor egg from my sister, I’m 41 she’s 30

First transfer we are 14 weeks + 1

We didn’t PGTA test this time as donors go through genetic testing.

I haven’t used ARGC but have used another well known clinic in London

[Gabriella89 in reply to Running79]

Congratulations! That’s amazing - best of luck and massive well done! X

[Running79 in reply to Gabriella89]

Thanks

It was the final option for us before we gave up

Good luck on your journey

[Poppyhb]

Hi Gabriella, I’m in a similar position, no known fertility issues, clear tubes and PGT-A testing embryos. We had our first FET in October and it was unsuccessful so I had the ERA and biopsy. Showed high NK so for second in April we had steroids and lots more progesterone, also unsuccessful.I’m 38 so wary of age but also think it’s pretty unlucky when you have good embryos, lining etc.

I did have to get my thyroid checked (they like it to be under 2) to check the NK wasn’t attacking other immune areas.

We’ve got a consultation with a clinic that specialises in immunology and infection. Our clinic doesn’t support intralipids or IVIG which I would think is the next step. I don’t want to keep doing the same thing!

Sorry that isn’t much help but I’ve struggled to find anyone in a similar position to us. You are doing the right thing getting a second opinion and if I learn anything from my one I’ll let you know. I’ve signed up to a webinar about immunology and endometrial issues which is tonight at 8pm myivfanswers.com

They have other topics so could help with some answers or direction.

Good luck

[Gabriella89 in reply to Poppyhb]

Hi Poppyhb so sorry you’re having to go through this too. Do you have any PGS embryos left now? Are you thinking of moving them to a new clinic to try a transfer with IVIG/Intralipids? The thing I’m not sure about is I’ve had the IVIG twice before both transfers but we never checked to see if my immune system was low enough before we did the FET. I’ve heard that at ARGC they actually wait until your NKC are exactly right before they do the FET which sounds like that could be an option so hoping they contact me for a consultation today... Please do let me know how you get on? Sounds like we’re in a very similar and painful boat!!!

[Poppyhb in reply to Gabriella89]

Yes we’ve got two Frosties so don’t really want to waste them having the same treatment. Did you do the Chicago tests? Mine were different so I expect we may need to have more tests done. I’ve heard they can test your cells with IVIG or intralipids before to see how much they bring the count down - did you have that? The IVIG is expensive and you don’t mind if it works but to keep using it with no effect is tough mentally and financially.

I’m hoping we get a bit of direction from our next consultation. Our follow up with our current clinic is afterwards so we need to check if they will allow us to transfer.

I think we need to know we have tried everything so if it doesn’t work we can draw a line and won’t be forever wondering if we’d tried a different approach could it of made a difference.

[Gabriella89 in reply to Poppyhb]

Yes I think you’re right they can test to see how much the IVIG/intralipids have brought them down - my clinic didn’t do this so I think that’s a really good starting point to see if we can do.. let me know how your consultation goes? 2 Frosties left is good odds! Got my 1 left so we still have hope! Xxx

[Poppyhb in reply to Gabriella89]

Yes I’ll keep you posted on anything new I find out. Although it’s a crap situation it is really useful to hear what other people have done or are trying. ❤️

[Haf05 in reply to Poppyhb]

Hi Poppyhb - if not too much trouble could you please PM me the name of the clinic that specialises in immunology? I have two normal PGS tested embryos and possibly high NK (I recently had this tested and judging by the call i got today i think the news is not good). If there are immunology issues, I want to make sure im at a clinic where i have the best possible chance. Thanks.

[Poppyhb in reply to Haf05]

Just sent them over. One will help treat immunes (whilst you have your FET with current clinic) and the other you have to have all treatment there. Both are in London.

Another thing is to request your notes from your current clinic under Subject Action Request. It can take up to a month to get these, so useful to have them ready to send to any new consultant ahead of meeting.

Good luck

[Poppyhb]

Just thought I’d post an update as we got out results last week. Quite a few things were flagged so we will have around three months of pre treatment before our next transfer.I’ve got an over active immune system (which was indicated by high NK cells) so I’ve started taking hydrochloroxine twice a day to try and calm it down.

Our LAD test showed we have one number in common so I’ve got to have LIT (some of hubbies blood injected into me) in two weeks, then another lots four weeks later, followed by a test to see if I’ve made antibodies.

I’m missing all three of the KIR receptors so will have injections to balance that when we start our next transfer cycle.

And I tested positive for Factor V (sticky blood) so need to add Clexane.

It’s likely I will also have IVIG before the transfer too, as well as my normal protocol

of steroids and extra progesterone.

I don’t know if this will work but at least we know now rather than after we’ve transferred our last embryos.

Good luck with your journeys.