Feeling deflated, being told 5 years later that some of my embryos should not have been frozen- any experience on grading?

[Daisy-Delilah]

I had my egg collection when I was 34 and was lucky enough to have 15 embryos frozen.

After 7 cancelled cycles our first FET was a success and I have my gorgeous LB ❤️

We have been trying for a sibling for nearly 18 months and now have 7 embryos remaining. We were thinking to do double transfers and hopefully have 4 more goes before we draw a line under it.

in my meeting with my consultant today he looked at the remaining embryos and said 3 of them are BC and anything C and under shouldn’t be frozen anymore and don’t really stand a chance of working. So I feel like we’ve now lost 3 of our embryos.

He suggested our options as follows:

- Test the remaining 4 then do FET with whichever survive or go to fresh cycle

-Go ahead with double transfer and in parallel test other two and then have one more transfer of any that come back ok

- Go straight to fresh cycle and see how many we get (I am 39 now so worried about my eggs getting older 🙁) and test existing ones

I just feel really deflated and that there is a real possibility now that we won’t be able to have a sibling. It feels awful to just discard my 3 x BC embryos and I’m not sure I can face another egg collection now (partly as I was really poorly afterwards with OHSS) - I know some of you are amazing and have done multiple ones

Not really sure the point of this message but just wanted to get my thoughts out there and I normally get such lovely support from you all, who might be able to share some experience/knowledge with me, or just some positivity

Thank you xxxx

[Doodlebug23]

I’m sure be seen plenty on here with BC embryos frozen! X

[Daisy-Delilah in reply to Doodlebug23]

Thank you for replying so quickly. Really lovely to hear from you. I thought I had but my consultant is just completely disregarding them now! 😢 He says it would be a waste of our time and money. I was just so shocked!

[Doodlebug23 in reply to Daisy-Delilah]

I’m sure you will get replies of “my LB/LG was a C grade”. Is it your choice still though to try with them? X

[Daisy-Delilah in reply to Doodlebug23]

Yeah I’m sure I’ve seen people say the same, which is why I was so shocked.

Yeah I think if we wanted to he would let us, it’s just he’s telling me it’s not worth it! I even suggested doing a double transfer of one ‘good one’ with a BC but he said ‘what’s the point in that!?’ So just feeling really confused 😢

[Doodlebug23 in reply to Daisy-Delilah]

Oh wow 😥 I did AB and BB and I’m convinced it’s my lowest grades ever that’s the one. I’d be thinking to try the same as you…. X

[HedgehogMad]

Sorry to hear about the failed transfers, it's really devastating.

BC embryos have every chance. Our consultant told us the grading tells us nothing about the genetic makeup. If you can do at least one double transfer fairly soon it is unlikely to make much difference to egg quality if you then had to proceed to another egg collection (fingers crossed you won't need it!)

[Daisy-Delilah in reply to HedgehogMad]

Thank you for your kind message.

That’s good to hear views from your consultant.

Tbh we don’t really want to do another fresh cycle. Our plan was to do 4 more transfers with the remaining 7 we have- so it’s good to hear from others that maybe we’re not crazy if we want to go ahead with the BCs

Xxx

[Greenleaves1]

Oh dear - my only frozen embryo is a 4BB (borderline BC) & I've been told it still has a good chance? Embryologist said he's definitely seen viable pregnancies from BC.

[Daisy-Delilah in reply to Greenleaves1]

Oh I’m sorry, I hope I didn’t upset you. I always thought BC was fine, so I was really surprised when my consultant said not today 🙁

Good luck with your next one 🤞🏻💕 xxx

[Greenleaves1 in reply to Daisy-Delilah]

Oh no don't worry I'm not upset - hopefully what my embryologist said gives you some hope xx

[Daisy-Delilah in reply to Greenleaves1]

Yes thank you so much xxx

[Skittles11]

Unless they have been genetically tested and indicated aneuploid I certainly wouldn't discard BC / C embryos at all. Maybe get a second opinion x x

[Daisy-Delilah in reply to Skittles11]

Thank you- that’s a really good point re: testing! Xxx

[Londongirl84]

Hi Daisy-Delilah, I’m sorry to read you are going through this. It’s heart breaking to think you might not be able to give your child a sibling, especially when you think you’ve got a good chance with embroyo's in storage. My story is slightly similar. I collected 7 embroyo’s when I was 35. 2 failed and 1 is my son. I had 4 left in storage. I decided end of last year to try bank some more as I was hoping for two more children. My first round gave me two embryos that failed to implant. Decided to go again and do another round and PGT test but the 1 embryo I had didn’t survive the procedure. I then decided to do PGT with the 4 I had from when I was 35. 3 came back good and 1 didn’t. Transfer one last month and that failed. Currently waiting to test tomorrow but have a feeling it’s not worked. So I’ll be down to 1 embryo. Im petrified it’s just not going to happen for us but at the same time feel like I should be grateful that I have a son. Think I will try and do another round before transferring the last 1. Also mine were all 4AA and I’ve learnt that doesn’t mean anything. Could you get a second opinion from another clinic and if yes transfer them out? X

[Daisy-Delilah in reply to Londongirl84]

Thank you for taking the time to reply and I’m sorry to hear about your difficult journey as well, it truly is heartbreaking 💔

Like you I feel so grateful for my son, but I desperately want to give him a sibling, although I start to worry now that the age gap will be too much for them to be really close if it does happen 🙁

What made you decide to PGA test? I have mixed feelings about it as I don’t want to damage any ‘good’ embryos.

Good luck for your next steps xxx

[Londongirl84 in reply to Daisy-Delilah]

Yes I’m starting to worry about the age gap too but my sister is 4 years older than me and another 9 years. I’m close with both of them but I know what you mean, I feel the same. I tested this morning and it was negative. So now I’m freaking out even more. I forgot to mention to you in one of my recent ivf cycles this year, I did get a embryo that was a C grade and they have frozen this. I had disreagarded it until this morning as I didn’t think much of it but the embryologist did say to me at the time she has seen babies born from such embroyo's. Try to not give up hope on the ones you have frozen. I think you should 100% get a second opinion .

I PGT tested them as I didn’t want to transfer any embroyo’s that were not viable. It was a personal decision I regretted as soon as they did it but when 1 came back with Trisomy 21 & 18 I was a little shocked and glad I tested. Xx

[Chel91]

I'm sorry, how demoralising! Couldn't disagree with your doctor more though!! I could speculate on his motivations, but I won't. There is a very recent study that combined a lot of data on embryo grades and success rates. I'll try and see if I can find it. However, yes BC do stand a fair / good chance. Maybe not quite as high, but no need to discard!! One of my Euploids is a 3CC 🥴 I haven't transfered yet though. But obviously based on study data all euploid embryos still have a fair chance. I would personally not test any of them, as it will only lower your chances statistically (if you are comfortable with not testing that is)! 💗 xx

[Daisy-Delilah in reply to Chel91]

Thank you so much for your reply. That give me a lot of hope! If you can find the report I’d be really keen to see it thank you ❤️ xxx

[Sarakht]

what a idiotic consultant sorry about my language. My second succesful single transfer was a 3bc which resulted in twins. Grading is very subjective to the clinic. Even so called bad graded embryos can correct themselves and implant more than the top graded embryos that fail. I wouldn’t listen to him! Wishing you all the best mama ❤️🙏

[Daisy-Delilah in reply to Sarakht]

Thank you so much for replying. This is such a lovely story that gives me hope for my BC’s ❤️ xxx

[Boo718]

I know 2 women who have babies from CC embryos don’t give up on them yet xxx

[Daisy-Delilah in reply to Boo718]

Thank you - just what I needed to hear ❤️ xxx

[Boo718 in reply to Daisy-Delilah]

I’d also say that I have transferred aa embryos that haven’t worked so I honestly wouldn’t get too hung up on the grade xxx

[MVS22]

Hi, our 3BC embryo was tested and euploid. Baby boy arrived a couple of weeks ago so please know that BC embryos can be successful!

[Daisy-Delilah in reply to MVS22]

Awwww many congratulations! I love this story- it gives me hope ❤️ xxx

[Twiglet2]

my little boy was a 4BC so he is talking absolute mince!!! They defo have a chance of working what on earth is he on about?? The only thing I can think of is he is trying to get his clinic stats up somehow? Or get you to pay for another egg collection! Please please please don’t discard these embryos my ‘perfect’ 5AAs didn’t work at all and had miscarriages with better grades (Abs and BBs) put down to embryo quality. It’s literally a moment in time beauty contest subjective to the hour they are rated and the embryologist rating them. Get going with using them my lovely they can absolutely be the lucky ones that bring you a sibling and I would suspect (if you had another consultants opinion) using a BC embryo from when you were younger vs a new egg collection a few years later would be preferable as quality can defo change with age (even if the ratings don’t change much) can’t believe he’s got you worried for nothing that has annoyed me for you!🫶🏻 xx

[Daisy-Delilah in reply to Twiglet2]

Hey Twiglet, lovely to hear from you as always, and I hope things are ok with you.

That’s really lovely to hear that your 4BC was your previous little boy- especially as I know ours were born around the same time 💕

Really really good point about age of eggs vs grading too!

I really don’t want to discard my little embabies and I’m not sure I have it in me for another EC ( you are amazing for doing so many).

Your message has given me hope, and cheered me up ❤️ xxx

[MariaHdz]

Something similar happened to me. I got IVF at 33, and they froze 11 embryos. The clinic planned to have me doing transferences every month for a year. After 3 failled transferences, I changed clinics and transfered my embryos to the new clinic. It resulted that they were 3 day embryos, and so they are not even graded like yours (5 day ones have lots more chances of surviving even if lower graded than 3 day ones... 3 day ones have really low chances). I continued transferences, they grew 6 embryos to 5 days, 3 survived and one worked and so I have a little girl. I have still 3 day embryos in the fridge. But they maybe won't survive thawing and if they do I have only 30% chances of them becoming 5 day embryos (even low quality). I was worried over my chances of giving my kid a sibling too as I am now 37. The specialist told my fears are real as maybe the 3 day embryos won't work (or won't even survive at all). That they don't get why the former clinic did this, as 3 day embryos are only frozen if you don't have many embryos (which was not my case). The problem is that my country forbids embryo banking if you have frozen embryos. So I cannot try to freeze new embryos until the 3 left ones are gone. But My kid was just born and I don't want a kid right now... throwing the embryos away (even if they are day 3), is not a smart movement, because still they were collected when I was 33 (a good age). So she recommended to do oocyte collection and freezing to preserve fertility. I also have had OHSS (I have PCOS), and it is awful, but I went thru it. My advice to you is: don't throw away the embryos you were in an excellent age, and you still can have a kid from them... they have better chances than day 3 ones and they recommended against throwing them away), and start a fresh cycle as soon as you can. 39 is still a good age.

[Daisy-Delilah in reply to MariaHdz]

Thank you for taking the time to reply and for your advise, it’s resell to hear other stories and the age point is a really good one. I’m sorry to hear you’ve had a difficult time too. I hope you get the outcome you want ❤️ xxx

[Glaedy]

Interesting what he said about BC embryos, because I have 3 embryos left and one of them is 5CB and my embryologist described it as "average" and they wouldn't freeze it if they thought that it wasn't good.

[Daisy-Delilah in reply to Glaedy]

Thank you for taking the time to reply. I had always thought that was the case. They told me that mine were frozen so long ago and now the criteria has changed and they don’t freeze any C’s anymore! 🤷🏼‍♀️ It’s good to hear so many others have had success stories with BCs though! Xxx

[Glaedy in reply to Daisy-Delilah]

I'm just thinking from where did they got this information anf how it so differ from other clinics that any C shouldn't be frozen, I freeze mine by the end of November so not that long ago and C's were still ok then. I know that freezing method changed not long ago from what it was few years ago but it just gives higher odds of good thawing.

[jinis]

Hey lovely - I'm not so sure about your consultant's take on BCs. As others have said above already, many (dear I say most) clinics do deem BCs viable & freeze. They have every chance - please don't discard them!

In fact, I'm 25 weeks tomorrow with 3BC - all higher grades had failed but this last one was the one that stuck xxx

[Daisy-Delilah in reply to jinis]

Ahhhh many congratulations! That’s so lovely to hear and gives me hope for my BCs ❤️

I really don’t want to discard them, I was so taken aback yesterday when it was suggested. The clinic said that things have moved on and they just don’t freeze any C grades now- it’s really odd! Xxx

[C-a-t-m-u-m]

I’m so sorry to hear your story, that’s hard and stressful. Trying for a sibling has been just an awful experience for me. I did a year last year of FETs one MC and 2 negatives. How can it work then not at all. It’s truly heartbreaking 💔

I’m having a year off at least. Wishing you all the best x

[Daisy-Delilah in reply to C-a-t-m-u-m]

Hi lovely, thank you for taking the time to reply, I’m so sorry to hear youve had a difficult journey too.

Our first attempt was positive and we couldn’t believe our luck! But sadly ended in MMC 💔😢

I hope you have a good break from it all and things work out for you when you try again ❤️ xxx

[MontsJ]

You’ve had lots of great responses about but I wanted to share another suggestion, I recently listened to a podcast interviewing an embryologist called Victoria, she’s worked in a number of top London clinics and now has her own company offering consults with people to discuss and my thing embryology related. Could be very helpful in decision making and might give you some reassurance. allaboutembryology.co.uk

[Daisy-Delilah in reply to MontsJ]

Thank you for the response. So would you see her in addition to your clinic as a second opinion? Is that how she works? Xxx

[MontsJ in reply to Daisy-Delilah]

Yes in addition, I listened a bit about her on this podcast - podcasts.apple.com/gb/podca...

I guess it depends how much you have faith in what your clinic tells you. More money though I know…

[DLZ321]

hey, just wanted to share - my cousin has endometriosis and is currently pregnant with a CB due in July so it can definitely happen!! Bit mad of him to tell you this in my opinion? They surely wouldn’t freeze in the first place if there was no chance 🙄 xx

[Daisy-Delilah in reply to DLZ321]

Ahhhh how amazing! Thank you for sharing!

I feel like that! Apparently the clinic have changed their policy! But I’m wondering why no one told me earlier if this was the case! Xxx

[Loma1]

Sounds like you have a lot of options which is wonderful. My advice is stop preparing for failure. I only ever achieved 1 fertilised egg from 3 egg collections, so only had one chance of implantation & successful pregnancy. That changed my mindset - that one transfer would work.

I did absolutely everything recommended for the transfer, time off work, diet changes, supplements, loads of walking, meditation, acupuncture… as if preparing myself to win an Olympic medal.

Seriously set up for success and start preparing for plan A - then the ‘what if/next’ deliberations (which in my opinion are setting you up for failure) will no longer be necessary. Hard to do I know as we’re all bracing ourselves for failure in this ‘game’.

Be supremely confident and positive - your body can hear you!

Wishing you the best! X

[Rhubarb5]

My daughter was a BC embryo. She also corrected herself after unusual cell division. These embryos do funny things. Don’t lose hope. I really don’t think the grading means anything.