With my recent miscarriages we decided to have our 3 embryos pgs tested. One of the embryo stopped growing as as all 3 blastocyst needed another day to reach full blastocyst. This was a grade 1 2, better grade than the other two. The other 2 embryos were grade 2 2. Yesterday I received my results back and unfortunately they weren't viable for transfer. I was told by the embrologist that they had Chromosomal abnormality 21 in both and 10 in one . I understand that 21 chromosomal abnormality is age related and causes down syndrome. Going forward I have been advised by my consultant that I should continue with ivf but we would need to get any blastocyst pgs tested to avoid any miscarriage. We will be booking a consultation in the new year with her after my blood test/scans with the recurrent miscarriage unit
We have no rounds of IVF/Icsi left, so would be paying for a further fresh cycle. We were on a 2 fresh cycle plan with access fertility. This round was our second round.
We had 5 balstocyst this round so I was being very hopeful but now I'm so worried and really dont know whether I'm fighting a losing battle.
I feel like I'm stuck in a limbo as to what to do.
We need to decide whether we should continue with Icsi. We have spent so much with our first 2 rounds, medicines, blood test, scans. But I'm not sure what we should do next. Is it worth proceeding with another fresh cycle with expectations that the result will be different.
First Ivf , 19 eggs, 5 fertilised, 2 reach blastocyst both top grades. A A. 1 stuck and end up with MMC at 9 weeks.
Second round ICSI, lower dosage of medication. 17 eggs , 6 fertilised and 5 reached to blastocyst. Two transferred, 1 stuck and end up with another MMC at 8 weeks. Other 3 pgs tested non-viable for transfer. I was taking various vitamins prior to my second cycle, ubiquinol, selenium, vitamin d, C iron and multi vitamins. All high end quality. Which I guess contributed to blastocyst stage but with chromosomal abnormalities.
I am 40 years of age will be 41 in December. So I know chromosomal abnormality is higher.
I wanted to ask, have any ladies have any cycles which resulted in non viable embryos after PGS tested and have any subsequent success stories.
What did you ladies do to overcome chromosomal abnormality or is there even such a thing we women can do. I am scared and worried that all my eggs have chromosomal abnormality now.
Is there a link between egg quality and chromosomal abnormality?
I guess I'm looking for hope.
I really appreciate all your help xx
Written by
Sammy246
To view profiles and participate in discussions please or .
Oh Sammy, biggest hugs to you! My heart bleeds to read your story and I can feel how unfair it is. I am so sorry.
I don't really have advice but can only tell you that I am sad for you and sending you so much baby dust and hugs. This journey really is a kick in the bajingo ... and they just seem to keep coming.
I am weighing up if I PGS test my own two snowflakes or transfer them and cross my fingers (again) simply because either with tests or with a transfer the earliest that hubby and I could do another IVF cycle is February. Stupid finances! *roll eyes* I rather suspect that hubby and I will be throwing all our money at this for as long as we can. I am going to try to stop counting how much it costs for each new thing we try or test- that way I wont be vomiting over the expense but hopefully vomiting during a successful pregnancy!
So much love and good luck to your Sammy. I'm just starting this journey but I can already feel the brutality of a blood sport about it all. I'm feeling like all of us ladies gear up for battle and need extreme stamina for it.
My husband is like we will try again and again until we hold a baby in our arms. But after reading into chromosomal abnormality im not so sure and feel so defeated today. This is an awful journey to be on emotionally and financially it's so draining.
Virtual hug and love to you. Also good luck with your decision on your emby babies x
I PGS tested and didn’t get any normal embryos either. I decided not to test again but changed protocol to natural modified IVF to increase egg quality and am pregnant with twins from the next egg collection. I’m pretty sceptical of PGS testing now to be honest x
Because both my pregnacies resulted with miscarriages I would like to avoid that if I can, and for that reason I thought PGS testing may help. Even though I know its not conclusive. Can you please let me know more about natural modified Ivf? How does it work ? Are eggs collected in various cycles and then fertilised at once? Xx
I did PGS as had 4 previous miscarriages and it was the last test we could think of to get some answers
Natural modified IVF is basically just very low dose drugs. They are only looking to get 2 to maybe 5 follicles. So you take tamoxifen tablets (similar effect to clomid) and then low dose stims every other day. No down reg and whole process over in less than 2 weeks.
I did a 3 cycle package so as low drugs you can do back to back egg collections - eggs are fertilised after each collection as normal abs then after the 3rd dolled iron they choose the best to put back
For me on short protocol IVF I got a total of 28 eggs in 2 cycles less than 30% fertilised and 4 average blastocysts - 2 PGS tested no normals. Clinic was surprised at how poor quality my eggs were
On natural modified in 2 cycles I got 9 eggs 100% fertilised and 4 top quality blastocysts - 2 are my current twins and I have 2 more frozen
Im sorry to hear it didnt work out. Im battleing with poor egg quality since I first started out. Remember each cycle is different. I always used embryoscope to get a proper scan of the fragmentation so my first ivf high dosage got 2 blastocyst transferd Bfn. Second round different medications also high dosage alao Bfn . Third round tried natural cycle Femara had 1 blastocyst BFP. We are trying for a second baby. Had 3 failed cycles and i just felt i need to do sthg differently this time. So i read the Book it starts with the egg and applied allot if changes from it. Antioxidants, diet changes etc.. so im now on my 4 th cycles to see if it has impacted egg quality . I read allot of success stories so im hopeful. She alao covers allot about misscarriage and the things that can be done. Juat remember not to give up
Thank you for taking time to comment. Will you be changing your protocol too? I've heard about the book and also follow Gabriela Rosa who also is a fertility specialist. I had purchased her book and have tried implementing some of the things she said. Hence I was hopeful with my second cycle with 5 blastocysts but clearly the all had issues. I'm at a point where I dont know what to do, I've gained 2 stones weight since Covid, combining 2 pregnancy and mmc during the same time so I'm definitely overweight now.
Well my doctor never told me anything can be done to improve quality he just mentioned that we need to change protocol to try to get a different outcome . All my eggs had chromosomal abnormalities. After i read the book I understood that allot can be done to improve quality and it gave me hope . So i started taking the supplements she recommended, acai, Vit E and C, melatonin, R lipoic acid, dolic acid And started DHEA cos i have low amh. She recommends inositol for som cases but it didnt apply to me. I got rid of all plastic including shower curtain, using all natural product and on a low GI diet. So im hoping all of this will make a difference. I just feel i want to do everything i can to make this work And sometimes small changes goes along way. Also if u need a break before going for another round do so. I did 3 back to back last time and was mentally exhausted so i took 6 months break and I feel im ready now.
This is what I would like to know. Can healthy eggs still have chromosomal abnormalities. Yes we can improve their quality but does that mean that the abnormality is eradicated? Xx
So my doctor told me when i got 7 mature eggs last time and only 3 fertilized that sometimes the egg looks good When retrieved but when u fertilize it u have abnormal chromosomes that from the beginning it wasnt a good quality egg it jut looked good. They cant tell until few days past Fertilization. He also said that if one round u good bad quality doesnt mean the next will be the same each month u produce different eggs. I dono if im making any sense to u. So what i read in the book is that u can prepare for ivf by doing few changes wich will lead to better egg quality so that u get them to blastocyst without any abnormalities. 3 months is usually recommend before starting ivf. I started a month an half ago but hoping that will make a difference
I think so cos when i got pregnant the one egg that made it to blastocyst had no chromosomal abnormalities at all. Which the few months before that all of them had that issue
Hi Sammy, I’m so sorry to read your story. I’m currently going through something very similar. I had two natural miscarriages and a chemical pregnancy before turning to IVF this year to try and ‘control’ the process. We made four embryos, transferred two fresh and froze the other two. But I had a twin miscarriage and found out that one of them had a chromosome issue (not sure about the second twin as it died earlier than the other one and we weren’t able to test). We then did another IVF round in September, got five embryos, PGS tested them along with our two frozen ones, and ALL of them came back abnormal. I have a good ovarian reserve, there are no problems on my husband’s side and all the doctors have been scratching their heads. The advice I’ve been given so far is to change the protocol (which I think you said you’ve done?) because there’s evidence that giving too much of the stimulation drugs can result in chromosome abnormalities, so perhaps a more natural cycle like @ivfgotadream suggests would work better? That’s certainly what I plan to do next. I’m starting a ‘super ovulation plan’ where I’m stimulated with minimal amounts of drugs to generate just a few eggs. This isn’t IVF but I know natural cycle IVF is similar, except obviously eggs are retrieved, embryos made and PGS testing can be done. So perhaps that’s a good option for you? Also, I’ve seen a fertility nutritionist who designed a very good programme of supplements to help with egg quality. I’m on a crazy amount of stuff, including CoQ10, high dose omega 3, açai berry, etc. I have immune issues too - not sure if you’ve been tested for those? Again, there’s some evidence that an overactive immune system and inflamed body can affect chromosomes/embryo quality, so I’m now on a programme of immune suppressant drugs to tackle that side of things too. PM me if you need any more info and I wish you so much luck on this incredibly difficult journey. xx
Thank you for getting back to me. I didnt really consider natural ivf until yesterday. Generally I dont take any medication and will suffer with a migraine/headache and go to bed with it as oppose to take paracetamol. So the iVF has taken a toll on my body. With my second cycle, I was also taking 400 ubiquinol, selenium, melatonin, vitamin C, D and a couple of others in the hope that we would get good results. We still had a short protocol but with lower dosage of medication. Even though intailly my consultant wanted me to have the long protocol in my second round but due to me suffering from migraines we went for the shorter protocol. So not sure if we want again this is something I could ask for. But I still had 17 eggs. Which was still high in my opinion.
I have my appointment for blood tests this month with the recurrent miscarriage unit. So I can discuss what they can test me for. Atm we have had no other tests other than the PGS testing.
The brief conversation I've had with my consultant is to continue with IVf in the hope that I will have one normal embryo to transfer. But theres no guarantee that anyone will be normal and we dont have money to just throw around.
Hi, yes of course. I had all the usual recurrent miscarriage testing and when nothing showed up we went to a renowned recurrent miscarriage expert who specialises in immune therapy - so, yes, his testing is focused on natural killer cells. I was found to have a very high level of something called TNF Alpha and my NK cells aggression level was high too, so I’ve been treated with a concoction of drugs. I was first treated with an injectable drug called Humira, which thankfully lowered my TNF alpha, and now I’m on hydroxychloroquine and intrallipid drips (at ovulation and then I believe more regularly once pregnant) for the NK cells. I hope this helps. x
Hi Sammy, sorry to hear this journey has been a rather bumpy road for you.
I’m 42, just completed my 3rd egg collection doing mild ivf. On this collection I had 4 blastocysts on day 5, but because I’m PGS testing they need to grow them to day 6, and yesterday none of them made it. I find that bit really confusing, when they were all doing well the day before. I currently have 2 embryos suitable for testing, and will get my result today on one more they’re growing.
After this news yesterday, I felt I needed to think about what my back up plan is if these embryos are abnormal, as I’m obviously concerned that might be the case due to my age. I’m now exploring the idea of a donor egg if mine turn out abnormal. Something I never thought I would be able to consider but it’s funny how things change as you go through this process.
Anyway, just wanted to reach out and say that I really empathise with you and your journey xx
Thank you PIxie, I dont get that either that when embryos are good blastocyst, top quality and then all of a sudden they stop growing. It's just doesn't make sense.
Good luck with your 2 embies and I pray that they are normal and transferable xx
Thanks Sammy! I asked the embryologist yesterday if I hadn’t been doing pgs it the embryos would’ve been viable for a transfer and he said yes for a fresh transfer. Arrrgh! It’s such a gamble all of this, but I wanted to avoid the heartbreak of potential miscarriage or baby with sever deformities so went with pgs.
Hi Sammy ❤️I’m so sorry to hear about your 2 MMC, I, like you am 40 years of age and during my second IVF/ICSI cycle I got pregnant with a 3BB embryo which resulted in MMC at 10 weeks 💔I had 1 frozen embryo which I PGS tested and came back abnormal. I then had another IVF/ICSI cycle in July and had 2 more embryos both 4BBs that again came back abnormal 💔.
I have accepted that it’s very unlikely that I’ll find a normal embryo due to my age (apparently after 35 years of age only 1 in 10 is normal) and moved onto egg donation.
I’m about to start my egg donation cycle abroad.
Have you considered that? It was kinda hard at the beginning but then realised it’s the next step needed to make our dream of having a baby a reality- without insisting on something my body can’t do, so it’s useless to continue trying as it will only be a waste of time.
Im so sorry to hear about what you been through. 😪 I have considered going abroad for IVF treatment just to save costs but not sure whether the 2 /3 cycle packages in UK work out cheaper in the long run . As you get fresh and frozen cycles part of the package. The only add on is the PGS testing which costs so much here and I would be inclined to go abroad. I haven't considered donor egg for religious reason. I think I will try until I'm 43 and then I will have to call it a day xx
DHEA has been shown to improve egg quality, which then in turn results in better blastocyst quality (yes, there is a definite link between egg quality and chromosomal abnormality), and also early retrieval of eggs has also shown improvements in egg quality. For a discussion with your consultant this is a good quality systematic review of DHEA: ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articl... and this is study about eearly egg retrieval: ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articl...
ps. I did a cycle at 42 and the outcome was poor re. egg quality/blastocysts, and then implemented the above treatments at 43, and one of the resulting 2 excellent quality blastocysts is now having his midday nap
So happy you had a happy ending. Can I ask for how long you took the DHEA. From what I had read previously that it was beneficial for ladies with low AMH but as I have an ok egg reserve I wasn't sure whether it would help me. Also I had suffered with excessive hair in my youth due to pcos and have read that in some women it increased unwanted hair too xx
I took it for 3 months (micronized, 75 mg/day) and I have great AMH for my age but I think the benefits of a good AMH start to fade the older you get because the eggs have been sitting around for so long (even if you have tons of them...) I didn't notice excess hair and I have issues with that a bit as an adult - the only things i noticed were slightly more oily skin and a bit grumpier than usual, but it was totally manageable.
No - it is not allowed in Germany, but I don't know if I would have anyway, just in case I got a mosaic embryo that gave an abnormal result (but might have resulted in a healthy baby).
lol Even if you did get some hair growth, it would disappear as soon as you stopped taking it (but I do understand your hesitation ) Good luck with the next cycle!! xx
I had ivf in july- round 3- and both my embryos tested as abnormal. Convinced myself I had no good eggs, that at 39 I was past it and all my embryos were destined to fail. Last month, i got pregnant naturally (I'm on all sorts of drugs to stop recurrent miscarriages) and currently 5 days away from my 7 week scan with everything looking good so far. Don't worry, not all your eggs/embryos will be bad, there will be some good ones, I genuinely believe that x
Nope, nothing different. Only difference is that I took an intralipid during the ivf in July, and I guess that combined with the hydroxychloroquine, and somehow managed to get the embryo to implant... Started taking steroids on the day I got the faintest line and booked my intralipid in for the same day. It honestly was just a combination of all the drugs and pure luck. I'm still in disbelief really, I thought this was a losing battle. Proof that it only takes one. I feel like all the jigsaw pieces are finally fitting together. I've literally had all the tests done too, so keep plugging away and you will get an answer or the right drugs for you, just a matter of waiting for the final jigsaw piece. If I could sum up how I feel, it's like I've had 300 shots at getting the basketball in the hoop and I finally did it, and I'm terrified that if I have to try again, it'll take another 300 attempts. Terrified of losing this one as it was bloody hard getting here. I really do believe anyone can get pregnant, it really is just finding that jigsaw piece. X
There is this new research that Near Infra Red and red light therapy help to provide cellular energy to eggs. You can buy for home use on Amazon. One at least 300W better. Maybe try using them for about 2 months before stimulation.
There is also Chinese supplements that help to reduce oxidation on cells. Not the little black o es, but the powder form to dissolve in water. I was informed that the herbs help to improve egg quality.
I know you may already be using vitamins and supplements such as ubiquinol, vitamin d and folic acid and also acupuncture but these are some of the things that may help.
I know it can be very hard to stay positive but try and stay hopeful. Everything will be alright.
Thank you jolin Komo for your kind words. Some days I feel very defeated.
I haven't read into red light therapy or infra red light. I will definitely research into it. Have you tried it?
With Chinese medication, my clinic tell you not to take it with ivf as it can affect you treatment. Even though I was taking some herbal medication prior to my first IVF. But I stopped a month b4 my ivf started.
I am taking the above supplements and have ordered DHEA tonight. By the time it comes I'll have done some more research in to it to ensure I'm comfortable taking it. I didn't do acupuncture with my second cycle as it was in lockdown and by the time the rules were flexible I didn't think it would have made a difference. But once lockdown rules cease I will definitely go back and have acupuncture again. With folic acid I was on the 5mg dose which was prescribed by my consultant which I started taking about 2 months b4 my cycle. However, now I'm taking 400 folate incase my body doesnt absorb folic acid xx
I want you to know that you are not alone. The whole process is full of anxiety depression and what appears to be hopeless. But, hope is what we must keep alive.
Red light therapy is new. Yes some of the over the counter Chinese medicines contain herbs that affect estrogen. Chinese practitioners who are skilled in IVF and infertility stay away from these.
I understand Shea helps with increasing follicle count. How it does this I don't understand. Quality is really more important than quantity. As we age the eggs loose energy and age. Ubiquinol helps with mitochondria action, the red light therapy research said it helps with cellular energy via ATP... (Biology stuff but more of it in young egg)
Acupuncture is useful especially during stimulation, at least once a week. A day before collection, a day before transfer and immediately after. Haven said above, my grandmother had 7 kids and didn't use any of these. But that was in Africa many years ago. She started early and ate only fresh food , lived where there were no cars. So her life different from ours.
Regarding the egg quality, see if you can consult with a qualified Chinese medicine practitioner. They may be able to help.
My fertility herbalist advised me years ago to take whole food vitamins. Before vitamins made me ill and one even affected my kidneys. Now I use vitamin code or naturelo one.
Anything that increases blood flow to the ovaries is good as it may help the ovaries receive nutrients to replenish and rebuild aging cells.
Please stay calm and positive. I had my second child when I was 41,10 years after I had lost all hope as first son had died at 2 years before. Its hard not to feel exhausted and disappointed, but try. Keep posting here for support.
Don't just focus on yourself alone. Encourage your partner to take the right antioxidants too. Fortunately there are many that help sperm quality. It takes sperm and egg to form an embryo.
You can PM me if you need contact of Chinese practitioner I know. Only online consultation as i don't live near him. But he was able to advise me on the right nutrition and what to avoid and is a trained practitioner in reproductive medicine.
Is a female limited to a certain amount of eggs? Is there a biological clock that is ticking and once it runs out the baby making days are over? NO WAY! She is only limited by her metabolism. Red light therapy can increase the metabolism making her more fertile and more likely to have a baby.
What Does The Science Say?
From the studies posted below it shows that the female egg has several hundred more times of mitochondria then any other part of the body. When the mitochondrial function declines, the quality of eggs drop, and infertility sets in. However, the study found applying red light therapy to the neck area for a quick treatment of 15 seconds, yes, 15 seconds, Increased fertility 21+% in the women it was tested on. This was done on average for about 21 sessions. These were women who were considered to be “severe infertile patients”. Yet, their fertility improved and some were able to have babies!
Copied above from the link to the research work. They said treatment on neck....15 seconds for 21 sessions.... Don't know the wattage of the devices used. This technology is already being used to improve skin aging in the cosmetic industry
Content on HealthUnlocked does not replace the relationship between you and doctors or other healthcare professionals nor the advice you receive from them.
Never delay seeking advice or dialling emergency services because of something that you have read on HealthUnlocked.
(even if you have tons of them...) I didn't notice excess hair and I have issues with that a bit as an adult - the only things i noticed were slightly more oily skin and a bit grumpier than usual, but it was totally manageable. 
Even if you did get some hair growth, it would disappear as soon as you stopped taking it (but I do understand your hesitation 
Is it a good idea to transfer my last 2 blastocysts together if they were not PGS tested?
PGS / PGD - Is genetic testing necessary?
Double PGS tested FET. 
Frozen Cycle - number of embies to transfer 
PGS testing 
