I am new here and copletely lost

[MofM]

Hi everyone,

sorry for the long message, but I have a lot inside that needs to be taken out.

I am 35 in a few days, and ten days ago I have been diagnosed, for the second time, with an ectopic pregnancy on the right tube, which has been surgically removed. At the same time, I have also discovered that the left tube was close and full of free fluids (hydrosalpinx). During the surgery, the left tube has been drained, since I was too much in denial to consent the removal of both tubes (and, at the same time, I had no idea of what precisely a hydrosalpinx was). The hospital consultant, before discharging me, suggested that IVF was the only possibility I have to get children on my own --after removing the left tube: the free fluids in the left tube are indeed embryo-toxic.

Now, I find it impossible to forgive myself for what is happening: both tubes where devastated by a Chlamydia infection, which I took having unprotected sex in my early twenties -- do you believe I still remember exactly when it happened and how I found out?

Never in my life, I doubted of not being able to have children the 'good old way', and now this news comes a bit (sarcasm) as a shock. Having had an ectopic pregnancy last year even reinforced the idea that indeed we were able to conceive, and it was only a matter of time before adding a new member to our family --have you ever heard of someone so naive?

Never in my life, I thought of having the necessity to require medical attention to procreate -- I have just hinted at the possibility of adoption, but only in the case I had met my better half when I was too old to have children on my own. Now, adoption seems even further away than a successful IVF: we are not married, of different (European) nationalities, and with no stable jobs.

Due to the fact that 1) we have been trying without much success for 2 years, 2) I have a few cists in my ovaries, 3) I may have been affected by a light form of endometriosis, and 4) in February 2017 I had a first ectopic pregnancy, I have already been referred to a sub-fertility clinic (the first appointment was on April 2018), which suggested a laparoscopy to check the overall health of my reproductive system, which was booked for next Friday and has now obviously been cancelled. I have a second appointment this Tuesday, when I guess I will be suggested again IVF.

What I now ask myself is: is IVF the right choice? Will I have the stamina to go through all the procedure: the drugs, the eggs collections, see if any fertilised, the transfers, the failures? Will it make sense with a 27% success rate, that is, more honestly, 73 failures each 100 tentatives? Will I still be a good mother, or, after all this effort, financial and emotional, will I consider the child as my property rather than an independent human being? Would it perhaps be better to get married, work through a more stable life/job and aim for adoption in a few years? Or would simply accept a childless life be the best option?

I honestly believe that, if mine was going to be one of these unexplained cases of infertility, I would simply have tried until menopause, slowly accepting that having children was not my destiny -- in line with my naiveness that children will eventually come.

Thanks for reading.

[E8989]

I’m so sorry for your losses I have experienced 3 ectopic pregnancies and I feel your pain. We had NHS funding IVF and now have a beautiful 4 month old baby girl 💗 I wouldn’t hesitate it your able to have IVF here if you would like to talk sending love xx

[MofM in reply to E8989]

Thanks for your nice words -- and sorry to hear about your ectopic pregnancies It is so devastating knowing that you almost did it but no.

Have you had the tubes removed/clipped before IVF? Knowing that also the left one has to go is very stressful for me --don't know, I feel like I am now an incomplete being...

[E8989 in reply to MofM]

Thank you it really is that’s is so true it’s almost worst than not falling at all 😢 no I actually still have both tubes 1st - surgery was miscarrying from tube they prob should of taken it due to scarring etc but I was adamant to keep it 2nd - same tube PUL wait and see took 4 months to return to non pregnant 3rd - methotrexate. Oh huni your are not at all you have been through so much don’t ever feel like that. It’s so positive that you can fall pregnant and they only have to bypass your tubes with IVF that’s the positive I took from it. I think you would regret not trying if you have the opportunity to do so xxx

[MofM in reply to E8989]

My 1st ectopic ended with a tubal miscarriage too, should also have had it investigated and removed: the 2nd ectopic was in the same tube and the surgeon said that it was horrible and scarred start to end

I start to feel relieved that a way to convert without tubes exists: you and the other ladies are somehow reassuring me now, thanks!

[destiny121]

I couldnt see this and not comment. Ive been trying for 4 years and no success. I was diagnosed with hydrosalpinx and it literally crushed me. I dont even the look the same as i once did (maybe slight exaggeration) but i certainly dont feel it. This damaged my confidence, my career, and my life is literaly on hold and has been for a few years.

However, you need to accept what has happened and move on and where there is life there is hope. I have had one cycle of ivf and the process is not difficult but all the overthinking beforehans is what really gets to you. I had an operation to remove the damaged tube and about to embark on my second round.

All i can say is lift ur head up, take each day as it comes, listen to your doctors and ride the storm... please dont give up because it is certainly possible and just go for it.... you’ll be pleasantly surprised when you start the journey of ivf xxx

[MofM in reply to destiny121]

Thanks for your message, I think your suggestion of keep going (and E8989's successful story) is what I should actually do -- especially if this is only overthinking, a thing I am very good at.

Have you had your first IVF round with the hydrosalpinx in place? The consultant in the hospital said that no one will ever allow me to get IVF with the tube open (and I suggested removing rather than clipping).

[destiny121 in reply to MofM]

On my first cycle the tube was still there, i was in denial and felt like i had to try with it being there. Obviously that cycle failed but i have 4 embryos ready to try this round with the tube gone. Honestly, once you accept it and can see theres hope it will keep you going xx

[MofM in reply to destiny121]

Being in denial is exactly what I have been feeling in the past 10 days. I am very distressed to know that both have to go. On the other hand, I see many people here that accepted it gladly as a preparation for a future pregnancy, much like taking folic acid. I wished I could have the same strength

Good luck with the 4 embryos

[jengi]

Hi MofM, it is perfectly normal to feel this way but please don’t be so harsh on yourself. Life can be so cruel but there are so many options ahead for you. IVF being one, it’s a miracle technology that can enable you and your partner to have your own baby using your own egg & sperm. Everything with this journey is one step at a time. It takes time to deal with so much. It has taken me 5 months to get my head around my situation and some days I’m still not there! You will be offered some councilling, I suggest you take it and talk through your concerns. This journey is starting and you need to give your emotions time to deal with this. It is ok to grieve for the fact you may not be able to conceive naturally. Take care of yourself, big hugs Xx

[MofM in reply to jengi]

Thanks for your message.

I strongly believe that life is cruel but, on the other hand, I also strongly believe that we are the makers of our destiny. I have made a few mistakes in the past, one of which hit me just now, with this news of scarred and blocked tubes, and more may come back at any moment. I may laugh a some or get disappointed, but can I afford to make more just now?

I know that IVF is a miracle technology and allowed many people to have their dream of a family come true but is this really the right choice? What if something happens, for instance, due to a multiple pregnancy, if the child is born too early, when their possibility of having a normal life is somehow compromised, or they have some malformation/retardation that is not detectable via routine scans/tests? Will this sheer selfishness of having a child at any cost make any sense? You may say that it may happen also with a "natural" pregnancy but I see a difference with the "looking for a child at any cost" offered by an IVF treatment (Sorry to let this out here, but somehow writing what I think helps me to feel better).

Counselling is a great idea, and also my partner is pressing for me to ask for it. However, I cannot afford to pay for one, and I am scared that an NHS counsellor will rather try to unravel the reason behind my desire for maternity rather than supporting me through these hard choices I am now facing, leaving me more angry and upset than relieved.

[jengi in reply to MofM]

Hi MofM, I can reassure you the thoughts running through your head have also been through mine. It is an ethical delimma and no body has the answers for you, only you and your partner can make the decision. However, it is so important you vocalise and discuss them. There are some great books available which you may find useful ('It starts with an egg' or 'Zita West's guide to fertility and assisted conception'). I bought second hand copies of both online and have found them really useful. The NHS counsellor is to support you in your decision making in this journey. It can be overwhelming so take it slowly and don't put any pressure on yourself to make a decision. But allow yourself the opportunity to explore, ask questions, do some research and when you have gathered some information and insight, then reflect. Take it one day at a time. I wish you the very best of luck.

[MofM in reply to jengi]

Thanks for your kind (and wise) words.

I have just gotten a copy of "The Complete Guide To IVF" by Kate Brian and both me and my partner are reading it. We find "The Complete Guide" quite clear and very helpful but I will have a look also at the two other titles you suggested: the more, the merrier, right? Also reading other ladies' post here has helped us a lot in understanding the overwhelming future that may be expecting us.

On Tuesday we will ask the consultant at the fertility clinics about the next steps (blood tests? a second laparoscopy to take care of the surviving but close tube?) and then we will (try to) decide which path to take in what my partner has started to call "new adventure". It may also be that my ovary reserves are very low, or that I have some additional problems that make IVF less successful, so, for now, we decided just to learn more, think less, and wait to see what the immediate future is reserving for us, without pontificating about bigger things.

Thanks again for your support!

[Sarahlou01]

Hello. I just wanted to give you some hope. I’ve had my left Fallopian tube clipped due to a hydrosalpinx and due to it being so badly damaged from endometriosis. My right tube is completely blocked so no use whatsoever but I have just had a positive pregnancy test after a frozen embryo transfer. You do need stamina and a lot of emotional support to go through IVF but it can be so worth it xxx

[MofM in reply to Sarahlou01]

Thanks for your words. Your and E8989's successful stories give some optimism to what I see now like a black and dangerous future

[Sarahlou01 in reply to MofM]

Don’t see it as a black and dangerous future, optimism and carrying on with your normal life as much as possible and surrounding yourself with a good support network is the key to getting through ivf xxx

[MofM in reply to Sarahlou01]

Not sure whether IVF is the right choice for me tough!

[Hidden]

I’m so sorry to hear what you’ve been through but I hope I can give you some encouragement and hope!! 35 is still young!!!!! Even donor eggs are used at 35 so you have every chance of success with ivf and the only pain is a bit of discomfort post egg collection...nothing like the pain you’ve endured. I had my first egg collection at 43 and I got pregnant with my first transfer (unfortunately I had to terminate st 14 weeks due to baby’s imminent death and severe abnormality) but i’m Pregnant now at 45 after 6 losses. Believe me when you want something bad enough going through ivf is nothing!!! I’ve had a lot of heartache and 3 erpc’s but i’m 13 weeks pregnant now and cautiously optimistic. You’ve gotta be in it to win it and nothing worse in life than regret. Just go for it!!! Wishing you the v best of luck!!! Please don’t be hard on yourself! Everyone makes mistakes and people can have ectopic pregnancies even with perfect health and no sti history! I regret kissing someone I didn’t even like and 10 days later I was ill for 2 weeks with blisters in my mouth and all over my tongue after contracting primary cold sore virus. Don’t look back just keep moving forward xxxx

[MofM]

Thanks for your message and sorry to hear about your losses. You must have gone through a very hard time. Your cold sore virus story made me smile, thanks for that as well!

I may be very tactless now, but your very sad personal experience may make you the best person to address one of my main concerns (which I have also mentioned it in my answer to jengi's message). Please apologise me if I am too insensitive.

I am deeply worried that if something happens (for instance, due to a multiple pregnancy, or to an early delivery, or to some malformation/retardation that is not detectable via routine scans/tests) I will never be able to forgive myself. Does this selfishness of having a child at any cost make any sense? You may argue that this may happen also with a not-IVF pregnancy but I see a difference with the "looking for a child at any cost" offered by an IVF treatment, and I agree that it may be biased by the "playing God" narrative suggested by the media. Thanks for reading and sorry again if I am been indelicate.

[Lauren0813]

Hi, just thought I’d message...

So sorry to hear about your ectopic pregnancies. Can’t imagine how you are feeling.

When we started on our journey nearly 18 months ago I said that I would never have IVF. I was in a bad place emotionally and just felt I could deal with all the ups and downs. We have been trying for 5 years, never had a pregnancy.

Was finally diagnosed with endo 10 months ago after a laparoscopy.

I had never even heard of endometriosis when we started, I am lucky that I have no pain..

We thought that we would be able to have surgery, but after being referred to another specialist he decided that he would not risk surgery due to the damage it could cause to my organs as I have stage 4 extensive endo. We basically were told that IVF was likely the only way in January..

We have both had the moral dilemma to contend with as we are catholic. However, we were invited to an IVF info evening at our clinic. This really settled our fears and we spoke to an embryologist as well as other couples who had been through IVF.

We have our paperwork appointment on Tuesday and then due to start injections in about a month.

I wouldn’t shut the door before you have really found out what it all entails, I’m sure there would be an info evening at your clinic, ours was fantastic and met about 25 other couples all looking into IVF.

I would push for a laparoscopy asap too.

Don’t rush into any decision... give yourself time, it is only a few days since your surgery...

Most fertility clinics have a counsellor available... I accessed the service a couple of times.

Remember you are not on your own, we all feel that void of not having a child.

Be kind to yourself.

This site is great for support.

Take care of yourself..

Xx

[MofM]

Thanks for your message, sorry of hearing of your endometriosis.

Thanks for sharing your dilemma: without being Catholics we have the same fears but you and the other ladies are somehow reassuring me now.

On Tuesday I will ask the consultant at the fertility clinics about the next steps (blood tests? a second laparoscopy to take care of the surviving but close tube?) and whether they have a counsellor specialised in fertility issues available (I am scared that an NHS counsellor will rather try to unravel the reason behind my desire for maternity rather than supporting me, and I cannot afford to pay one now).

Good luck with your "adventure", as my partner has started to call IVF