Replay of Mr GNJanbazs on my post " What is harm in 'LCHF'

[cure]

Dear Friends.....

Let me read you one of our respected member commented on my post... about LCHF.... trailing below is my questions to mr GNJanbaz

I request your comments.....ofcoz answer from GNJanbaz

GNJanbazs : Said

It is strange that people are favouring a treatment which is not scientific.No doubt low carbohydrate intake will produce less glucose but the problem is to metabokose this glucose to energy required for the development and maintenance of body cells.This possible only if Pancrease produces adequate insulin to convert this glucose to energy.Therefore the problem does not arise with intake quantity of carbohydrates but the healthy pancrease to produce insulin for converting glucose to energy.It is possible in type 2 diabetes that restricting carbohydrates and exercise may contain the glucose in the blood but ultimately it is pacrease which is to be treated.As already indicated intake of unsaturated  fats are in no way...no way useful.especially in the heart and diabetic patients. To stop this argument I request the organizers to publish the effects of carbohydrates and fats on the working of the body cells and stop this unscientific treatment discussions.I find this blog is used by the diabetic patients who are ignorant of working of the body organs and their mantainance and they may suffer instead of treatment.

cure said:

@ GNJanbaz......

Thank you very much for your wonderful reply....you have stated.....

-'This possible only if Pancreas produces adequate insulin to convert this glucose to energy'

May i ask you how many diabetic patients were asked to get 'fasting insulin' reports to check what quantity insulin is produced in his body ???

Without checking fasting insulin and making statement about non working of pancreas is scientific???

It is known fact that most of the non diabetic obese person produces more insulin than normal non diabetic person.This purely because of his insulin resistance....As this (insulin resistance) grows beyond threshold person becomes diabetic. It is also known fact that more insulin produces more insulin resistance.....both goes hands in hands...to make situation more worst....presence of insulin helps body storing more fats....person gains weight...making his diabetes worst...

Still do u think treating his pancreas without knowing his current insulin level to produce more insulin ...and taxing his already tired beta cells is scientific???

Guess it is not unscientific but 'CRIMINAL' to kill his already tired beta cells and make him life time diabetic.

And restriction on carbohydrates...which will in turn help beta cells more rest....also help to reduce weight and insulin resistance is unscientific?????

 Very Logical sir.....thank you for enlightening us....

It is really disturbing that ppl are just opposing some point of view without any valid logic....

[jan-ran]

Well said. 

[shrisamarth Volunteer]

Quote - "It is really disturbing that ppl are just opposing some point of view without any valid logic...." -  and without any scientific proof.

This is standard practice on this forum.

[Hidden in reply to shrisamarth]

My fasting insulin is 4.04,and FPS is 94mg/dl,any comments?

[cure Administrator in reply to Hidden]

As per HOMA calculations your IR is( 4.04X 94)/405=1.05

Which is very good.

And i guess you are controlling your sugars to non diabetic level without any medication...(or just with help of metformin)

As IR goes near to 1 your own insulin is sufficient for you o clear blood sugar.

However......if we look at normal non diabetic fasting blood sugar which we suppose 80 and normal fasting insulin level 2.4.

Then IR=(80X2.4)/405=0.47 .

This is near to 0.5

Your IR above 1 suggest that you have more chance to get it further below 1.

Just curious......Do you tend to gain weight easy????

[shrisamarth Volunteer in reply to Hidden]

cure  has already replied.

Low IR.

[Hidden in reply to shrisamarth]

Thyrocare fasting insulin range is 2.6-24.90uU+/ml,no such range of 2.4

[cure Administrator in reply to Hidden]

ok....may be...google more.....

[Hidden in reply to shrisamarth]

 Low IR may causes insulin  defficiency in future. any possible to  IR improve ?

[shrisamarth Volunteer in reply to Hidden]

" Low IR may causes insulin defficiency in future."

No.

[cure Administrator in reply to shrisamarth]

Low IR is most desirable...and  High insuline sensivity is desirable.

It is said due to high IR and low insulin sensitivity... Beta cells gets tired.

Fatty liver is also result of same...rather presence of high amont of insulin helps in gaining weight .

[Hidden in reply to shrisamarth]

 In Ho ma IR test indicates   less than 1 is insulin sensitivity   But  how it is found insulin deficiency   Insulin level normal  value is 2.6-24.9 If insulin level is below 2 is considered as Insulin deficiency .  is this value  any related to  FBS or   PPBS

[cure Administrator in reply to Hidden]

Ofcoz....fasting insulin level has to be correlated with fasting sugar. In any case elevated fasting sugar shows insulin insufficiency.

[Hidden in reply to shrisamarth]

Shrisamarth,   If  IR became normal value 1 or below then the sulfunalurea drug  or injected insulin is necessary  ? In this case person may take only Metformin or Voblogose for maintain blood sugar level.

Even IR is low that person having insulin defficiency

[shrisamarth Volunteer in reply to Hidden]

"sulfunalurea drug or injected insulin is necessary ?"

It will depend on diet of the person and how much deficiency is there. Metformin may not work sufficiently in such cases.

Insulin is also required for fatty acid synthesis.

[cure Administrator in reply to Hidden]

If IR is normal.....below normal or higher doesn't matter to a doctor....When blood sugar is elevated beyond acceptable level...medical drugs are called for.

The choice of drugs is discretion of physician.

High level of fasting insulin is sign of Insulin resistance.

Once insulin resistance is brought down .....there will less need on insulin to clear the blood sugar...if Endogenous production of insulin is sufficient .....we will not see elevated blood sugar...

[Hidden in reply to cure]

Shrisamarth/ Cure  Thanks a lot 

[Hidden]

4.04uU/ml, FPS means,Fasting Plasma Sugar.

[Hidden]

Today i calculated  IR WITH THESE READINGS  ON HOMA2 CALCULATOR IT COMES OUT TO BE   IR-0.53, WHY ANOMALY IN YOUR CALCULATION/ Please  recalculate it.

[cure Administrator]

Plz refer following URL

askdrwiki.com/mediawiki/ind...

Calcualation of structure parameters is based on a fasting plasma sample, and it is derived by use of the insulin-glucose product, divided by a constant: (assuming normal-weight, normal subjects < 35 years, having 100% β-cell function an insulin resistance of 1)

HOMA-IR = [Glucose] * [Insulin] / 22.5 (Glucose in mmol/l)

HOMA-IR = [Glucose] * [Insulin] / 405 (Glucose in mg/dl)

HOMA-Beta = 20 * [Insulin] / ([Glucose] - 3.5) % (Glucose in mmol/l)

HOMA-Beta = 360 * [Insulin] / ([Glucose] - 63) % (Glucose in mg/dl)

IR is insulin resistance and  %β is the β-cell function. Insulin is given in mU/L. Glucose and Insulin are both during fasting.[2]

This model correlated well with estimates using the euglycemic clamp method (r = 0.88).[2]

The authors have tested HOMA extensively against other measures of insulin resistance (or its reciprocal, insulin sensitivity) and β-cell function.[3][4][5]

A new version of HOMA, called HOMA 2 is recalibrated to modern insulin assays. It can be calculated with software from Oxford University called HOMA Calculator, however equations have not been published.

[jingale in reply to cure]

How well does HOMA-IR calculation correlate with IR calculated from TG-HDL ratio? cc @anup 

[shrisamarth Volunteer in reply to jingale]

They are in concordance. 

[Hidden in reply to cure]

Good information  thanks

[Hidden]

Can you clarified    IR is low it may also happen to  insulin deficiency ? Insulin  in blood  normal value is   2.6-24.90    given by throcare   But here above  insulin 5 may  be insulin resistance  This is almost common to most of Diabetic person.

 So  If insulin resistance is low the personbecame  possible to  insulin defficiency  in  some time later.

  Inprevious discussion in this forum one of themember may share his     report that he is not  IR  but having  insulin defficiency  and it was also   found in C-peptide test

  What is your opinion.

  But for treatment  Doctor  given prescription for sulfunalurea  and metformin or combination of drugs.

   Recently some of them given janumet and SGLp2 but these drugs   heavy costly  not possibleto poorer  family members.

[Hidden]

After many ,many years of high carb food according to some ,( but normal carb food according to me) people are getting striken with diabetes .Who knows what is going to happen with the extra ingestion of fat , say after a PERIOD OF 10 TO 15 years .In case of crops they advise to change the crop , after some time , to get better yield .The same logic could be working here , Where better results are seen and experienced with new diet fad . Any takers of this logic ?