My New Supplement List (I cut a bunch of players)

[Bolt_Upright]

I just cut out a bunch of supplements.

These are what I removed (I may add things back. I was taking too many):

1 -Idebenone (is being trialed to slow progression of REMSBD to PD/LBD).

Thanks gginto and Ponieboy! Lion's Mane is back on the stack!

3 - NAC.

4 - Glycine.

5 - Magnesium L-Threonate.

6 - Amazon brand Solimo probiotics.

Here is what I kept:

1: Keto/Wahls version of the Specific Carbohydrate Diet (not a supplement, but just as important I think).

2: B1 500 mg in the morning.

3: Jigsaw Health Butyrex from T.E. Neesby 6 per day (2 with my B1, 2 at 2 PM with food, and 2 at 9 PM with food. This has magnesium and calcium in it.

4: Curcumin with both meals. Make sure it is 95% curcuminoids.

5: 100 mg of selenium with 750 mg of Inositol because I have Hashimoto's and I read a study where they converted a bunch of people with sub-clinical HT to euro-thyroid using about this protocol. I am not sub-clinical but it still seemed worth a shot to lower inflammation. There is a lot of thought people with HT should not take selenium and neither should men over 50.

6: Niacin 250 mg Time Released at night. There is a study of 47 PD patients on this dosage for a year and all of them had some improvement or no worsening of UPDRS scores. Small study and no control group but I take what I can find. Niacin works as an anti-inflammatory in both the brain and the gut. Niacin binds with the GPR109A receptor, which is anti-inflammatory. Butyrate binds with it too, just not as strongly, so I time my butyrate to be used when the niacin is out of my body.

7: Melatonin 10 mg. It seems to make me sleep like a baby and there is evidence it is neuroprotective.

8: Ceylon Cinnamon 1 rounded teaspoon in m coconut milk smoothie.

9: 2 level teaspoons of Mannitol in my smoothie.

10: Lion's Mane.

11: Edit: Removed Zeolite. Zeolite seems to be proinflammatory.

Also found this today: Dietary zeolite supplementation reduces oxidative damage and plaque generation in the brain of an Alzheimer's disease mouse model

zoiglobal.com/wp-content/up...

Wow, I'm down to 9! That seems good.

[Fabnus]

Nice Bolt, may I ask why you dropped glynac? I am pretty keen on it.

[Hidden in reply to Fabnus]

Do you mean glycine?

[Fabnus in reply to Hidden]

Yes, the Glycine/NAC combopubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/337...

[Hidden in reply to Fabnus]

Thank you. I take NAC but not glycine. Have you researched which form or means is best? I don’t want to reinvent the wheel.

[Fabnus in reply to Hidden]

I buy my glycine from PureBulk and mix a large spoonfull with warm water before bed. It is supposed to help with sleep also. My NAC is in pill form (NOW brand) and is 1000mg.

More reading for you:

healthunlocked.com/cure-par...

[Hidden in reply to Fabnus]

Thank you! Do you take magnesium before bed? I wonder if it’s compatible with CALM. I am going to order glycine. Thank you!

[Bolt_Upright in reply to Fabnus]

And here is the full study: ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articl...

[Bolt_Upright in reply to Fabnus]

Thanks for asking Fabnus, I may have to rethink. That study does look fantastic: ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articl...

But here is what I was thinking:

1: I can't take 15 supplements a day.

2: The doses of NAC/Glycine were only 10% of what was used in the study. Their doses, per my math, were about 7 g of glycine and 9 g of NAC per day for a 70 kg (155 lbs) adult. I don't think I can afford that (maybe I could afford the glynac powder?). So Pure Encapsulations GlyNac powder is $29 with 30 servings of 1.8 G NAC and 1.8 G Glycine per day. So to get close to the study would need 4 servings a day at $120 a month. Not too bad if it works.

3: The study was small, 8 people. And they did not have PD.

I am giving serious consideration to adding my Glycine and NAC back to the stack (but doubling the NAC to 1200 mg and changing to GlyNac powder when I run out of capsules.

There is this also: This paper indicates oral NAC (N-acetylcysteine) 6000 mg a day actually made PK symptoms worse. These people were taking 6 grams of NAC a day. Small study AND THEY WERE NOT TAKING GLYCENE so not the same as the great newer study.

Repeated-dose Oral N-acetylcysteine in Parkinson Disease: Pharmacokinetics and Effect on Brain Glutathione and Oxidative Stress

Published online 2017 Sep 22

ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articl...

In general, high dose (6000mg/day) oral NAC was well tolerated in healthy individuals with only minor indigestion noted. However, symptomatic adverse events were reported in 3 of 5 subjects with PD. These side effects were mild to moderate and reversible; resolving within a few days or weeks of stopping NAC. It is possible that the adverse events are dose-dependent, as investigators using a lower dose (1200mg NAC/day) did not observe worsening of parkinsonian symptoms, but instead patients who took 1200 mg/day in combination with IV weekly dosing reported symptomatic improvement.16 A major difference between our study and that conducted by Monti et al. was that the later study used weekly IV doses in combination with relatively low oral daily doses. There is evidence that NAC’s actions differ based on the route of administration and thus, IV dosing may produce a different result that an oral regimen(ref). Katz et al also administered high oral doses of NAC to patients with PD for two days without any reports of adverse events.39 In our study, patients typically reported increased drooling around day 2 or 3 with increased tremor 1 or 2 days later. There was also a slight worsening in clinical parameters in patients as measured by UPDRS scores. It is possible that a drug-drug interaction may have contributed to the worsening of parkinsonian symptoms in our cohort. The two subjects with the most significant increases in tremor were also on amantadine, which is an N-methyl-D-aspartate glutamate receptor antagonist. A plausible explanation is that NAC, through increased brain Cys concentrations, modulates glutamate transport. The net effect of this putative interaction would be increased extracellular glutamate which has an adverse effect on symptom control.40 Alternatively, NAC may alter the pharmacokinetics of amantadine (or other PD medications, Table 2). This could occur through interactions of enzyme systems or transporters of the intestinal or blood-brain barrier (BBB). However, a search of literature failed to reveal any reports showing that NAC effects BBB transport or the pharmacokinetics of anti-parkinsonian medications. A larger trial is needed to determine if these findings are reproducible and if they can be attributed to NAC.

[Hidden]

Did you mean glycine? Or is glycen something else? And why take it or not take it? Please if you have info, I’m curious.

[Bolt_Upright in reply to Hidden]

I meant Glycine. Corrected my spelling.

[Gioc]

In my opinion with niacin (B3NA) it would be good to take a multivitamin and multiminerals unless you are well fed with fresh vegetables etcetera.

What you call a small study on niacin is actually a study over a sufficiently long time (12 months), chock full of measurements where the good researchers at Augusta University, Augusta, GA, United States, have researched with the "hard testing " attitude that is to look hard even for evidence to the contrary of what is stated. So in the end they stated and I quote:

"Conclusion

We have demonstrated the potential effectiveness of over-the-counter niacin enhancement as a proof of concept to support the well-being of individuals with PD. Vitamin B3 augmentation has the potential to maintain or improve symptoms. Based on the results of this effectivene. "

IMO is one of the most complete research on PD (a field abandoned for years by Big pharma) with a result that should not be underestimated.

frontiersin.org/articles/10...

[Bolt_Upright in reply to Gioc]

I totally agree GioCas.

This Niacin report is the strongest evidence I have seen on efficacy so far.

I know, placebo effect (and I have not been diagnosed with PD), but I feel better since I started taking my 250 mg TR Niacin.

One interesting thing I learned from the group that performed the study: Butyrate binds to the GPR109A receptor and niacin also binds to the GPR109A receptor but with stronger binding affinity. That GPR109A receptor is anti-inflammatory.

So this got me to thinking I should keep taking butyrate and time it so I take it during the time of day I don't think I have niacin in my system. I don't want the butyrate o compete with the niacin for binding to the GPR109A receptor.

ALTHOUGH, if my niacin plasma level is truely rising, then maybe there is no good time for butyrate (although they were interested when I told them about that fellow who said he recovered through butyrate and niacin).

[Gioc in reply to Bolt_Upright]

in my opinion they are not two competing substances but reach different places, I recommend evening primrose oil with b3. Like this taken in moderation. (I chose it at random on Amazon, there are a thousand brands).

amazon.it/dp/B078YCCLRX/ref...

I use simple olive oil in large quantities. lol

[gaga1958 in reply to Gioc]

Why do you use primrose oil? Thxs

[Gioc in reply to gaga1958]

Hi gaga1958

I use olive oil because I like it on food. But if I had to use fatty acids for their aninflammatory properties , like Bolt, I would use evening primrose oil which is a very powerful anti-inflammatory among the ones I know.

should be used in moderation and may have some contraindications as you see here.

webmd.com/diet/health-benef...

[ConnieD in reply to Bolt_Upright]

Can you link the story about the person who recovered from butyrate and niacin? Thank you!

[Bolt_Upright in reply to ConnieD]

Here is a link to the thread he is in:

parkinsonsnewstoday.com/for...

I tried to reach out to him but saw on his profile he was self diagnosed so he seems kind of iffy.

[ConnieD in reply to Bolt_Upright]

Thank you! I appreciate it!

[Bolt_Upright in reply to Gioc]

Any recommendations on the multivitamins multiminerals? Multiminerals sound cool.

I do eat pretty healthy. Mostly veggies fish and poultry. No sugar or processed foods.

[Gioc in reply to Bolt_Upright]

I use emergens-c , 2 o 3 at week (it is without vitamine E)lot of vegetables for minerali

[Bolt_Upright in reply to Gioc]

Thanks!

[Ponieboy]

Why drop the lions mane? I believe it has neuorgenisis properties. Paul Stamets has done research on it and found it to be effective in protecting nerves and helping repair damage to them.. I have been doing some rabbit holes on neurogenisis .

[Bolt_Upright in reply to Ponieboy]

Thanks! Good point on the Lion's Mane. Reconsidering this one:

2019

Post-Treatment with Erinacine A, a Derived Diterpenoid of H. erinaceus, Attenuates Neurotoxicity in MPTP Model of Parkinson’s Disease

mdpi.com/2076-3921/9/2/137/htm

The present study demonstrated that HEM and its ethanol extraction of erinacine A treatment exhibited preventive and therapeutic actions in the restoration of dopaminergic degeneration as well as motor dysfunctions in a dose-dependent manner. Our study firstly demonstrated that post-treatment with erinacine A could reduce MPTP-induced neurotoxicity via activation of the PAK1, AKT, LIMK2, MEK, and Cofilin survival pathways, as well as reduction of the IRE1α, TRAF2, ASK1, GADD45, and p21 cell death pathways in N2a neuron cells and in an MPTP model of Parkinson’s disease (Figure 9). Accordingly, erinacine A may be a potentially valuable neuroprotective and therapeutic agent that could be used to improve pathological conditions and behavioral deficits during PD treatment.

[Bolt_Upright in reply to Bolt_Upright]

And they have a trial going!

The Effect of Hericium Erinaceus Mycelium in Non-motor Symptoms of Parkinson's Disease

clinicaltrials.gov/ct2/show...

[Bolt_Upright in reply to Bolt_Upright]

2020 - Hericium erinaceus Mycelium Exerts Neuroprotective Effect in Parkinson’s Disease-in vitro and in vivo Models

researchgate.net/publicatio...

Conclusion

In conclusion, we have used cell culture and animal models to

demonstrate the neuroprotective eect of H.E. myceliumin the PD

model. Our results indicate that H.E. mycelium increased the cell

viability of the MPP+ treated cells and performed in a very eective

antioxidative eect in vitro cell culture model using PC 12 cells. In vivo ,

H.E. mycelium exerts signicant neuroprotective eect by increasing

the dopamine level and the activity of tyrosine hydroxylase (TH) in

mice striatum. To sum up, our results suggest that H.E. mycelium

performs signicant protection of dopaminergic neuron under severe

conditions and is very eective in the treatment of damaged neuron in

the brain to recover in the case of Parkinson’s disease.

[FawnLily in reply to Bolt_Upright]

My naturopath cautioned me that many mushroom supplements don’t really have the mushroom stated on the bottle. Just generic mushroom powder. Which brand do you trust to really be Lion’s Mane?

[Bolt_Upright in reply to FawnLily]

I went with Double Wood: Lions Mane Mushroom Capsules (Two Month Supply - 120 Count) Vegan Supplement - Nootropic to Support Brain Health, Neuron Growth, and Immune System, Made in The USA by Double Wood

amazon.com/gp/product/B07PM...

Lions Mane Grown and Made in the USA

Double Wood's Lions Mane is not only made in the USA but also grown in the USA at a mushroom farm.

Entire Fruiting Body, Mycellium, and Extra-Cellular Compounds Included

Double Wood's Lions Mane product includes all parts of the mushroom so you can be sure all active ingredients are included in the final product

[gginto]

Hi

Why did u cut the Lion's Mane? I find it's one of the BEST supplements and I notice a difference with memory and sleepiness/brain fog..I take Magnesium Bisglycinate- It helps with constipation and nerves.

For Anxiety I take: Rhodiola and L-Theanine first thing in morning on an empty stomach.

Also:

B12 sublingual, Resveratrol, Grape Seed, Acai, Krill oil, Gotu Kola, B2, Ginkgo, Organic Cumin (with added black pepper) B1, Omega 3 Oil, MCT Oil

Also... Org. Wheatgrass and fresh carrot/apple juice

Cut out most carbs... Lots of vegetables/fruit and Org meats...

and the biggest thing----> EXERCISE DAILY but push it.. I power walk or bike and weight training....

Try to avoid stress... It's good to see you are trying to balance supplements. It takes a lot of time to get it right for each individual.

I also take Levodopa 3 tabs/day ... don't know if it helps but neuro recommended it so I'll keep taking.. BUT I would like to wean off if possible. I know pd gets worse so I'm trying to boost my system from all angles to try and slow it down.. Good Luck!

[Bolt_Upright in reply to gginto]

Thanks! Good point on the Lion's Mane. Reconsidering this one:

2019

Post-Treatment with Erinacine A, a Derived Diterpenoid of H. erinaceus, Attenuates Neurotoxicity in MPTP Model of Parkinson’s Disease

mdpi.com/2076-3921/9/2/137/htm

The present study demonstrated that HEM and its ethanol extraction of erinacine A treatment exhibited preventive and therapeutic actions in the restoration of dopaminergic degeneration as well as motor dysfunctions in a dose-dependent manner. Our study firstly demonstrated that post-treatment with erinacine A could reduce MPTP-induced neurotoxicity via activation of the PAK1, AKT, LIMK2, MEK, and Cofilin survival pathways, as well as reduction of the IRE1α, TRAF2, ASK1, GADD45, and p21 cell death pathways in N2a neuron cells and in an MPTP model of Parkinson’s disease (Figure 9). Accordingly, erinacine A may be a potentially valuable neuroprotective and therapeutic agent that could be used to improve pathological conditions and behavioral deficits during PD treatment.

[Bolt_Upright in reply to Bolt_Upright]

And they have a trial going!

The Effect of Hericium Erinaceus Mycelium in Non-motor Symptoms of Parkinson's Disease

clinicaltrials.gov/ct2/show...

[Bolt_Upright in reply to Bolt_Upright]

2020 - Hericium erinaceus Mycelium Exerts Neuroprotective Effect in Parkinson’s Disease-in vitro and in vivo Models

researchgate.net/publicatio...

Conclusion

In conclusion, we have used cell culture and animal models to

demonstrate the neuroprotective eect of H.E. myceliumin the PD

model. Our results indicate that H.E. mycelium increased the cell

viability of the MPP+ treated cells and performed in a very eective

antioxidative eect in vitro cell culture model using PC 12 cells. In vivo ,

H.E. mycelium exerts signicant neuroprotective eect by increasing

the dopamine level and the activity of tyrosine hydroxylase (TH) in

mice striatum. To sum up, our results suggest that H.E. mycelium

performs signicant protection of dopaminergic neuron under severe

conditions and is very eective in the treatment of damaged neuron in

the brain to recover in the case of Parkinson’s disease.

[Bolt_Upright]

Thanks gginto and Ponieboy! Lion's Mane is back on the stack!

2020 - Hericium erinaceus Mycelium Exerts Neuroprotective Effect in Parkinson’s Disease-in vitro and in vivo Models

researchgate.net/publicatio...

Conclusion

In conclusion, we have used cell culture and animal models to

demonstrate the neuroprotective eect of H.E. myceliumin the PD

model. Our results indicate that H.E. mycelium increased the cell

viability of the MPP+ treated cells and performed in a very eective

antioxidative eect in vitro cell culture model using PC 12 cells. In vivo ,

H.E. mycelium exerts signicant neuroprotective eect by increasing

the dopamine level and the activity of tyrosine hydroxylase (TH) in

mice striatum. To sum up, our results suggest that H.E. mycelium

performs signicant protection of dopaminergic neuron under severe

conditions and is very eective in the treatment of damaged neuron in

the brain to recover in the case of Parkinson’s disease

[Fabnus]

Bolt, have you considered adding probiotic bacillus subtillus?

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/319...

[Bolt_Upright in reply to Fabnus]

Thanks Fabnus! This is exactly why I posted my list. So people could debate and discuss.

So are you talking about PXN21 Bio-Kult? I have some of that. I've been taking it off and on.

Or bacillus subtillus in general? I'm not really sure PXN21 is better than just bacillus subtillus.

[Fabnus in reply to Bolt_Upright]

I have taken Bio Kult, but right now I'm taking DE111. Seems like these companies patent their version of Bacillus Subtillus, but hopefully they all do the same thing. I didn't see a particular brand mentioned in the study. Here is the full study. ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articl...

[Bolt_Upright in reply to Fabnus]

"Bacillus subtilis probiotic strain PXN21 inhibits α-synuclein aggregation and clears preformed aggregates in an established Caenorhabditis elegans model of synucleinopathy". PXN21 is the Bio-Kult strain.

I might have to start taking it again. I had forgotten that it cleared a-synucein.

[Bolt_Upright in reply to Bolt_Upright]

Maybe I should take DE111 also?

Daily intake of probiotic strain Bacillus subtilis DE111 supports a healthy microbiome in children attending day-care

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/331...

[Fabnus in reply to Bolt_Upright]

Sorry, I know you are trying to thin the herd.

😀

[Bolt_Upright in reply to Fabnus]

I'm working on a plan to have some rotational supplements in the mix. More to come on that. Have you looked at the information on Zeolite? I don't know why, but I am very excited by it. I guess I'm thinking we have a list of things to work on, and Zeolite looks like it covers "getting rid of pathogens that might be driving PD". Zeolite does other things too, but it is the only thing on my stack that addresses this aspect. I've gone to one gram twice a day.

I AM NOT A DOCTOR OR EVEN PARTICULARLY SMART.

[Fabnus in reply to Bolt_Upright]

I have not looked into that one, is there a particular study that caught your eye?

[Bolt_Upright in reply to Fabnus]

healthunlocked.com/cure-par...